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Old 2013-12-06, 15:37   Link #1161
AuraTwilight
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According to original series, Walpurnis Night is the only Witch that doesn't need to hide inside it's own barrier. All the other Witch Labyrinths exist inside imaginary worlds too, it's just that they use a barrier as a nexus that overlaps with the real world. The space inside the Labyrinth is much bigger than the barrier's size in the real world. The destruction inside the Labyrinths are not carried back to the real world either.
That's, like, your opinion, man.

I'm drawing a distinction between Homura's labyrinth which exists entirely within her Soul Gem, and a standard one, which seems to be an actual physical area that's mobile and is coterminous with the material plane. The Labyrinths are mentally-constructed worlds, but they seem to have SOME sense of tangibility; they're just pocket dimensions out of phase with the real world.

Regardless, we can't really speak for the size of the labyrinths. We never really explore them that deeply and they might have additional directional axis for all we can tell. There's also the question of how much of Homura's city 'exists' when it's not being observed by one of the people trapped in it.

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Yes, I'm perfectly aware that she does say that. I wasn't sure whether she was being literal about it the whole way through, however. Maybe she used the power of love or whatever to split Madoka's powers, and then used that fragment to reshape the universe? At the end of the movie, she also states that she stole a piece of Law of Cycles, so I assumed that she did what she did with what she got from Madoka instead of her powers alone.
What happened was Homura filled her Soul Gem with 'love' instead of hope or despair (How she did so is another matter entirely), and that made her go god mode. This love power wrapped the entire universe in a witch-esque barrier that made Homura god. She didn't use Madoka's powers to do anything.

As for the fragment of the Law of Cycles she stole, this is heavily implied to be Madoka herself; her human, anthropomorphic identity that was taken from the world. If the Law of Cycles still exists and is still functioning, then it's universal law with no consciousness behind it. No longer governed or administrated by that perfect, heavenly, compassionate soul that ached for all people and smiled in the face of all adversity.

What this means for the fate of Magical Girls is uncertain. My personal theory until we know more is that the Law of Cycles will just delete Magical Girls instead of delivering them to Madoka's heaven. A machine that deletes things it's told must not come to exist.
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Old 2013-12-06, 15:48   Link #1162
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^ Even if the Law of Cycles was still functioning I'm not sure it would be able to reach the magical girls inside Homura's barrier.

Maybe the Law of Circles doesn't work anymore and Homura applied a new Law to her universe to take care of witches. What kind of Law that would be, and what would happen with those girls, is anyone's guess. One possibility is that in Homu's universe magical girls just don't exhaust their magic and never reach the point of witchification.
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Old 2013-12-06, 18:42   Link #1163
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When Mami put Homura's soul gem on her body (after the battle with Homura's witch form), I was very surprised that the colour of the soul gem was blue instead of purple. I guess that's the first hint that Homura's soul gem was corrupted, but not corrupted by despair.
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Old 2013-12-06, 19:30   Link #1164
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Technically it was indigo. The 'love-corruption' happened after she grabbed Madoka, though, when the speckled 'repugnant color' filled the gem rapidly.
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Old 2013-12-06, 20:20   Link #1165
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Technically it was indigo. The 'love-corruption' happened after she grabbed Madoka, though, when the speckled 'repugnant color' filled the gem rapidly.
I've read conflicting theories on this. One theory is, as you said, the corruption happened when Homura grabbed Madoka. Another one is that the corruption began a lot earlier, and the long process was only completed when Homura made physical contact with Madoka.

I think both theories have their own merits. The first one implies that it was more of a spontaneous decision by Homura. She only began to set the plan in motion during the flower fields scene. The second one implies that Homura had been planning for a much longer time. Perhaps the whole reason she became a witch was part of her plan to lure Madoka to her. This is supported by the fact that her soul gem appeared as blue/indigo instead of purple/purple mixed with black.

I doubt we'll get a definite answer on this though. Unless the creators answer this question specifically, or season 2/movie 4 says something specific on this.
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Old 2013-12-06, 20:39   Link #1166
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^ The color of Sayaka's soul gem was also sort of indigo when it got really corrupted in episode 8 of tv series, so I think it's just the standard color for corrupted soul gems. Also, note that in the movie Nagisa and Sayaka only noticed there was something wrong with Homura's soul gem when it started to get all weird, and they know a lot about this stuff so....
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Old 2013-12-06, 22:17   Link #1167
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
^ The color of Sayaka's soul gem was also sort of indigo when it got really corrupted in episode 8 of tv series, so I think it's just the standard color for corrupted soul gems. Also, note that in the movie Nagisa and Sayaka only noticed there was something wrong with Homura's soul gem when it started to get all weird, and they know a lot about this stuff so....
Exactly right. If indigo is the colour of a corrupted soul gem, that means Homura's soul gem was already corrupted *before* she touched Madoka, right?

(I hope this doesn't count as posting too many times)
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Old 2013-12-07, 00:17   Link #1168
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Exactly right. If indigo is the colour of a corrupted soul gem, that means Homura's soul gem was already corrupted *before* she touched Madoka, right?
Uh, yea, FROM DESPAIR, which set the whole movie into motion, because her Soul Gem was corrupted and put into isolation by the Incubators.

It's only until she grabs Madoka that it turns a DIFFERENT color, which Nagisa and Sayaka claim corresponds to a different emotion, but can't pin it down. Homura then describes that the emotion is reserved for Madoka, and then when Kyubey asks what it was, she answers that it's love.

The sequence is clear and unambiguous. She fills her Soul Gem with Love for the sake of her ascension the moment before she comes into contact with Madoka.
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:11   Link #1169
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I just came back from seeing the film in the theater.

I personally adored everything about this film, even the controversial ending. In addition to having some of the most breathtaking visuals in any anime film, I felt that it expanded on the themes and questions that the show brought up even more, and also made sure to keep the story and characters at the centerfold of it all.

So basically, it succeeded where Evangelion 3.0 tried and failed.

What say you?
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Old 2013-12-07, 02:25   Link #1170
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Uh, yea, FROM DESPAIR, which set the whole movie into motion, because her Soul Gem was corrupted and put into isolation by the Incubators.

It's only until she grabs Madoka that it turns a DIFFERENT color, which Nagisa and Sayaka claim corresponds to a different emotion, but can't pin it down. Homura then describes that the emotion is reserved for Madoka, and then when Kyubey asks what it was, she answers that it's love.

The sequence is clear and unambiguous. She fills her Soul Gem with Love for the sake of her ascension the moment before she comes into contact with Madoka.
I quite like your explanation.

I wonder why Homura's soul gem was filled with despair though. Is it a ploy to lure Madoka out? Did she despair because she was the only one who remembered Madoka? What do you think?

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What say you?
No question about the production values. The visuals, voice acting, and music were all superb.

I really loved three scenes. First is the Homura shot herself in the head one. I saw lots of promotion material about the supposed "driven to suicide" shot before I saw the movie. As a Homura fan, I *loved* the fact that she did pull the trigger. Without saying a single word. Without hesitation. No giving up. Would do anything for her mission. That's Homura. But that's only half of it. The truly badass part is where she considered but refused to shoot Mami's head/soul gem. Homura would be a shadow of herself without her hidden kindness. Would shoot her own head, but not her friend's. Mercy is real power.

The second scene is her rebellion against Madoka. I screamed "no" in my heart when Madokami came to take Homura away. I would hate the story to end that way. Absolutely loved it when Homura grabbed Madoka and dragged her back to earth. I cheered. That's the Akemi Homura I know and love. How could she stand by and allow Madoka to continue to suffer after hearing Madoka's heartfelt answer in the flower fields? How could she give up on saving Madoka just like that? She did exactly what I would expect from Homura. Anything for victory.

I was quite disturbed by Homura's creepy expressions as the devil. But the scene showing that she gave all her friends happy lives reassured me. The same person who said she didn't care but nevertheless showed up to save everybody again and again is still here.

Last edited by Monoriu; 2013-12-07 at 02:46.
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Old 2013-12-07, 03:02   Link #1171
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Originally Posted by LightDragonman View Post
I just came back from seeing the film in the theater.

I personally adored everything about this film, even the controversial ending. In addition to having some of the most breathtaking visuals in any anime film, I felt that it expanded on the themes and questions that the show brought up even more, and also made sure to keep the story and characters at the centerfold of it all.

So basically, it succeeded where Evangelion 3.0 tried and failed.

What say you?
I got back from seeing it a couple of hours ago, I personally thought it was really well done, only thing I really didn't like was their transformation sequences which seemed really weird but I think that is what they were going for with them.

I get the ending, the reason that she acts that way really isn't that hard to understand and there is a lot of foreshadowing to such a possible outcome (Mainly the scene where Madoka is talking about how she would never make such a decision without being put into great pain).

As you said, the animation, music, and characters were all really well done. The fight scenes in particular were really well done, I honestly thought the movie contained the best fight scenes in the series.

I am not really sure what I could criticize about any of them except one character, the new magical girl that I honestly am probably just going to call Cheese cause I don't remember them ever saying her name. She really felt like a completely unneeded character, the roles that she fulfills can also be easily fulfilled by Sayaka later in the film. I enjoyed the concept of her character but I really felt like they just added her there for some gags and extra movie length.

All I know is that as soon as it gets a DVD release, which I am sure that I will, I will be getting it as soon as possible so I can re-watch it again and again .
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Old 2013-12-07, 03:27   Link #1172
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I just came back from seeing it too. Now you can guess where everyone's from.

Something that I don't see many people mentioning, but I cringed during the nightmare's cake sealing song. Extra hard.
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Old 2013-12-07, 06:20   Link #1173
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Originally Posted by Monoriu View Post
I wonder why Homura's soul gem was filled with despair though.
A soul gem gets filled with despair as the magical girl exhausts all her magic in combat. Even in the magical girl wasn't feeling despair, the soul gem still gets corrupted with it.

Homura's soul gem got corrupted probably because she exhausted her magic fighting a horde of Majuu on her own in the wilderness (the last scene in the tv series).
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Old 2013-12-07, 06:27   Link #1174
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I quite like your explanation.

I wonder why Homura's soul gem was filled with despair though. Is it a ploy to lure Madoka out? Did she despair because she was the only one who remembered Madoka? What do you think?
The more i think about it, the more I think that maybe it was kind a of off-the-cuff sort of thing and not an elaborate ruse on Homura's part. Her soul gem did somehow became corrupted/depleted (possible prequel fodder?). She did despair. She was willing/prepared to be killed as a witch in the labyrinth of her own mind, then she did like Steve Winwood said: she saw a chance and took it.

Now, I know her saying "I've always waited for this moment" may seem to go against that, but I don't think it does: she had always waited for the moment to be reunited with Madoka, but the reason had since changed and perhaps spurred by their exchange in the flower field and newfound feeling of "love," Homura takes the opportunity to nab Madoka, strip her of (some of) her powers, and imprison her (for her own good). At which point exactly did she decide she would do this, particularly in relation to when her soul gem became tainted with love, I don't know. But I do think it was a somewhat rapid succession.


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I really loved three scenes. First is the Homura shot herself in the head one. I saw lots of promotion material about the supposed "driven to suicide" shot before I saw the movie. As a Homura fan, I *loved* the fact that she did pull the trigger. Without saying a single word. Without hesitation. No giving up. Would do anything for her mission. That's Homura. But that's only half of it. The truly badass part is where she considered but refused to shoot Mami's head/soul gem. Homura would be a shadow of herself without her hidden kindness. Would shoot her own head, but not her friend's. Mercy is real power.
Not only that, but I would like to add that even shooting Mami in the leg, Homura did recoil a little. I really did like that touch. I loved the subtlety in this film, and it really reflects the subtlety and understated nature of Homura's character. And I like how they remind you that, at the end of the day, maybe she's not quite the stone-faced hardass she presents herself to be; buried beneath the layers of jaded stoicism and badassery is still a 14-year old kid who just tries her best to do what's right.

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Old 2013-12-07, 07:34   Link #1175
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Now, I know her saying "I've always waited for this moment" may seem to go against that
Well, that's a mistranslation. She only says "I've been waiting for this moment" which doesn't imply how long she's been waiting.
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Old 2013-12-07, 07:44   Link #1176
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I just came back from seeing it too. Now you can guess where everyone's from.

Something that I don't see many people mentioning, but I cringed during the nightmare's cake sealing song. Extra hard.
Well I saw it in Boston myself, so that narrows it down quite extremely for guessing I would say .

Anyhow, yeah I kind of forgot about that scene, I don't think it was that bad and I assume it was like that because it is the "perfect" way defeating a monster would look like in Homura's mind. Although I guess I got to agree, I kind of cringed as well, I found the whole song a little creepy honestly.
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Old 2013-12-07, 08:14   Link #1177
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Saw it in theatres last night. Much better than seeing the camrip. It was nice watching it again and being able to look for the subtle clues throughout, such as Mami's ribbon attaching to Homura and the scene in the flower garden where you can almost see Homura's mind snap.

It was also great listening to the crowd's responses to scenes. In the pre-screening show with the voice actresses, when Sayaka's VA turns it over to Kyoko's VA, calling her "Sayaka's partner", a loud roar of applause began. Then later, when Sayaka confessed, another roar, then laughter when Nagisa flew by and ruined the moment. Then there was the ending, where Madoka came to retrieve Homura. You heard a lot of "awww" as Madoka said she'd been waiting, then a very audible gasp when Homura made the wicked smile.
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Old 2013-12-07, 08:40   Link #1178
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Saw it in theatres last night. Much better than seeing the camrip. It was nice watching it again and being able to look for the subtle clues throughout, such as Mami's ribbon attaching to Homura and the scene in the flower garden where you can almost see Homura's mind snap.

It was also great listening to the crowd's responses to scenes. In the pre-screening show with the voice actresses, when Sayaka's VA turns it over to Kyoko's VA, calling her "Sayaka's partner", a loud roar of applause began. Then later, when Sayaka confessed, another roar, then laughter when Nagisa flew by and ruined the moment. Then there was the ending, where Madoka came to retrieve Homura. You heard a lot of "awww" as Madoka said she'd been waiting, then a very audible gasp when Homura made the wicked smile.
In my theatre, I think the line that got the biggest ironic laughter was Kyubey's "Hey, wait, maybe we shouldn't be fucking with teenage girls' emotions after all." Not to mention that there was basically a mini-riot when the film ended out of sheer WTFness.
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Old 2013-12-07, 09:26   Link #1179
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It occurs to me that, in the TV series, Homura tried to save all the other four girls alone. She failed in each and every case (Madoka saved herself, the other 3 died). Movie 3 is the complete opposite. The 4 girls joined forces (plus Nagisa/Bebe) to save Homura, and succeeded without too much trouble.

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Not only that, but I would like to add that even shooting Mami in the leg, Homura did recoil a little. I really did like that touch. I loved the subtlety in this film, and it really reflects the subtlety and understated nature of Homura's character. And I like how they remind you that, at the end of the day, maybe she's not quite the stone-faced hardass she presents herself to be; buried beneath the layers of jaded stoicism and badassery is still a 14-year old kid who just tries her best to do what's right.
Agree totally. I love the pained expression on Homura's face when she released time after shooting Mami in the leg. She thought she had won the fight at that point, and against Mami to boot (Homura always have trouble fighting Mami, shown clearly in EP3 and 10). But Homura wasn't happy about it at all. The only thing on her mind seemed to be "sorry that I have to shoot you."
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Old 2013-12-07, 09:30   Link #1180
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Well, that's a mistranslation. She only says "I've been waiting for this moment" which doesn't imply how long she's been waiting.
Even better for me I guess. That's what I get for sticking with the camrip subs. I can't wait to see the movie for real. Hell, I was blown away by the lousy camrip, the Blu-ray will undoubtedly be glorious.
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