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Old 2006-03-07, 15:58   Link #1
poyorick
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Join Date: Mar 2006
The "Erolutions" Syndrome

Hi guys and gals,

I thought I'd sound you all out about an interesting phenomenon in ecchi anime. One thing I've always enjoyed in anime is the "gray area" a lot of the shows visit when they flirt with erotic subject matter. Even the most innocent little romantic/school life/comedy show will give up a little fanservice for the older viewers out there.

But something I've discovered that I like a lot is those shows that take it even further, shows that are dressed like typical harem or romance anime, but which take the nudity and sex about as far as possible for a non-H show. Essentially, I've discovered I kind of like softcore hentai (yeah, yeah, I know - "what's the point of that?")

One such show was "Girls Bravo" which was sometimes too sweet, too goofy or too dumb, but had some nice character designs and basically ponied up the fanservice big time. I thought that this show would be the ultimate in this kind of genre. And then I saw "Green Green."

Frankly, a lot of the comedy was really crass and disturbing, but the erotic elements were pretty outstanding. Now, I know that a lot of folks look down on these kinds of shows (though "Shuffle!" - also based on an H-game - seems to be well loved), but, what can I say, I'm a perv and I like 2-D naked chicks.

And when I discovered that a "13th episode" was out there - one which took the romantic relationships in the show to "the next level", I immediately tracked it down.

A lot of people who've reviewed "Green Green Erolutions" hated it. They thought it somehow sullied the "good name" of the original show by including some sex scenes which weren't as nastily graphic as genuine H (thank goodness) but which were definitely a step beyond the innuendos and non sexual nudity of the previous 12 episodes. Well, I don't know about those reviewers, but I liked it. Frankly, I wish it had been a little longer mainly so they could have done a little more with the characters' stories and still had time for the sex.

Even more than the show itself, I dug the whole concept of it. The idea of an "adults only" sequel to a more innocent show is kind of, well, hot.

So here I am asking what you guys think about this kind of thing. Anybody else think it'd be great if the studios that produced shows like "Girls Bravo," "Love Hina," "DearS," "Magikano," "Ai Yori Aoshi," "Amaenai De Yo!," etc. were to do "direct to DVD" sequels for adults that allowed their sexually frustrated characters to finally have their happy (naked) endings? Right now it looks like the only studio that kind of aims in that direction is M.O.E. ("Love, Love?," "Smash Hit," "Cosprayers") but their stuff is too full of lolitas for my comfortability.

Am I the only one out there who thinks it'd be cool to see more projects like "Green Green Erolutions" (but better done)?
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Old 2006-03-07, 16:15   Link #2
Srin Tuar
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Dears had an extra episode.

Nothing actually happened, but it was a trip to the sentou, and basically amounted to 100% saabisu.
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Old 2006-03-07, 16:47   Link #3
Gaia
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Thumbs up @ topic. Such conent and wishs are absolutely not perverted, in my opinion. It's just natural and let us be honest... Those shows aren't undergroundish... Many people watched them and they became semi-famous~famous, but when in comes to confrontations, no one will know about those "series for perverts, without real life". It might be a stereotype, but that's how I experienced replies on such topics, even if it wasn't here
Well, I haven't watched Green Green yet, but I've enjoyed Girls Bravo. The 2nd season became worse, cause of all these (in my opinion) missplaced ecchi~hentai elements and therefor a deep loss in comedy. After the 1st season, I was looking forward to the 2nd one, once it was announced. After watching the opening, I was hoping for more sexual content but it was, as already mentioned, a coplete disappointment. I wish there'd be a series with more of "hm~hm-Kirie" ^^;

Quote:
So here I am asking what you guys think about this kind of thing. Anybody else think it'd be great if the studios that produced shows like "Girls Bravo," "Love Hina," "DearS," "Magikano," "Ai Yori Aoshi," "Amaenai De Yo!," etc. were to do "direct to DVD" sequels for adults that allowed their sexually frustrated characters to finally have their happy (naked) endings? Right now it looks like the only studio that kind of aims in that direction is M.O.E. ("Love, Love?," "Smash Hit," "Cosprayers") but their stuff is too full of lolitas for my comfortability.

Am I the only one out there who thinks it'd be cool to see more projects like "Green Green Erolutions" (but better done)?
Well, thats tricky. Wouldnt that destroy a part of the hentai-doujinshi market? There are many excellent doujin artists (GUST/nf121 i.e.) out there and I wouldn't like to see them stopping, cause the big studios steal their costumers/fans. On the other side... I'd like to watch some of my favourite ecchi/harem anime, with more adult content.

Aesir

Last edited by Gaia; 2006-03-07 at 17:13.
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Old 2006-03-07, 17:39   Link #4
poyorick
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Yeah, that's a good point about the doujin artists. But, for me, the idea of the actual studio artists/animators/voice actors doing such an official adult sequel is more appealing than someone doing a flat, black and white sex parody version where the characters don't look exactly right (and usually have their breasts inflated to the size of zeppelins).

While I think it's great that Japan allows doujinshis to flourish without legal prosecution (try to imagine amateur artists here in the U.S. actually being allowed to publish their own x-rated version of She-Hulk or Supergirl!), I think that the anime studios producing shows like "Girl's Bravo" and "Green Green" already know that their primary market are older men (and ladies) who are enjoying the elevated erotic elements of their shows so why not - after the show is done, no more seasons, no more games being made - just do the adult "wrap-up" where couples finally get together and all that nudity is put to a good use.

Frankly, I'm just waiting for the hot girl/girl spin-off of "Girl's Bravo" starring Kirie and Kosame. Yuri heaven!
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Old 2006-03-07, 18:09   Link #5
Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
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Interresting topic. And I do sort of agree. Now, it's fun to seek out doujins of my favourite series (although I need to be extremely careful looking for Nanoha ones because, of course, 80% of the cast is loli) and I'm always pleasantly suprised when I see one I haven't seen before (I wish DearS and Yami to Boushi H doujins weren't so rare) but I agree that there's a real charm to it being official stuff. First off, it's garunteed to look right. In some instances not better but at least right. And secondly it's usually animated, which for me is always a plus.

Now the other options are when the artists themselves make their own content. Wanna see the Shining Tears girls? They've got that. Wondering which Langrisser/Growlanser girls are stacked under that big dress? Urushihara is your man! God bless him! Dying to know if Etoile, Priere and Cherie get along more than well? Ryouji can show you

So yeah, I don't mind the extra content to a fanservicy series, be it in video or in print. I'd actually rather have it than not for most series. And I don't think the doujin community hurts too badly by it. I find they tend to shy away from a lot of the overly ecchi stuff anyway because they kind of have nothing more to contribute.

And of course there's speculation that the next Nanoha series could be an H OAV. But that's not actually anything people who've played the game haven't seen before.
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Old 2006-03-07, 18:49   Link #6
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poyorick
A lot of people who've reviewed "Green Green Erolutions" hated it. They thought it somehow sullied the "good name" of the original show by including some sex scenes which weren't as nastily graphic as genuine H (thank goodness) but which were definitely a step beyond the innuendos and non sexual nudity of the previous 12 episodes. Well, I don't know about those reviewers, but I liked it. Frankly, I wish it had been a little longer mainly so they could have done a little more with the characters' stories and still had time for the sex.
Am I the only one who is baffled at this? The anime "Green Green" itself was based on an ero-game of the same title by the softhouse Groover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyorick
So here I am asking what you guys think about this kind of thing. Anybody else think it'd be great if the studios that produced shows like "Girls Bravo," "Love Hina," "DearS," "Magikano," "Ai Yori Aoshi," "Amaenai De Yo!," etc. were to do "direct to DVD" sequels for adults that allowed their sexually frustrated characters to finally have their happy (naked) endings? Right now it looks like the only studio that kind of aims in that direction is M.O.E. ("Love, Love?," "Smash Hit," "Cosprayers") but their stuff is too full of lolitas for my comfortability.
A. The majority of those shows are already aired very late at night that only otakus would care to watch. Ever heard of the 24, 25, 26, 27, or even the 28:00 hour? Those are the times these show air.

B. Even then, since they are shown on the airwaves, they are subject to the censor boards of the respective TV stations. Standards of what is acceptable and what isn't varies from TV station to station. In either case, most anime studios do not know what is okay and what is not until they show it to the TV studio producers.

C. Hence, shows like "Girls Bravo" and "DearS" had a lot of nudity covered with steam of hot baths in the original broadcast run. But, if you watch the DVD version, those are taken out.

D. Many marketers already do these in forms of bonus episodes and extra discs when you buy the DVDs. Of course, I do not know how DVDs are done in your country, but it is already the norm that distributors of anime companies incorporate bonuses to milk even more money out of kimo-ota's pockets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir
Well, thats tricky. Wouldnt that destroy a part of the hentai-doujinshi market? There are many excellent doujin artists (GUST/nf121 i.e.) out there and I wouldn't like to see them stopping, cause the big studios steal their costumers/fans. On the other side... I'd like to watch some of my favourite ecchi/harem anime, with more adult content.
No. If that held true, there wouldn't be ero-doujinshis that are based on ero-games. Try going to day three of Comike, and you'll see what I mean.
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Old 2006-03-08, 08:24   Link #7
Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
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I dunno. A lot of the ero games that get ero doujins don't throw the sexual stuff at you as frequently as an ecchi series does.
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Old 2006-03-08, 09:00   Link #8
DaFool
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I too would like to see more official softcore hentai based on well-loved harem series. Watching characters you've loved and who grew during 12-26 episodes finally reach their 'climax' is far more erotic than most hentai out there which feature 'who are these people?--bang, bang'
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Old 2006-03-08, 13:20   Link #9
poyorick
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kj: Good points all, but I'd say that the late night airings, lack of censoring on DVDs, and bonus content on DVDs are still not what I was talking about (or looking for). I think it's great that the studios are willing to give a little extra for the grown-up fans of their shows and characters on these DVDs, but they still play it fairly tame.

Understand, I'm not a huge hentai fan. Most of it is too gross, graphic and demeaning to women. But something like "Green Green Erolutions" wherein the original characters are intact, the original show's humor/romance is respected but still "realistically" shows the consumation of the various couples of the show (without cutesy innuendos or fanservice-y cop-outs) is what I'd love to see from more of these shows. Not just more nudity, but the full-on act of lovemaking.

At the end of a full season (or two) of a fairly racy comedy with core romances that develop and (hopefully) resolve well, how nice would a capper OVA be (again, direct to DVD to keep the network censors at bay) that rewards the fans (pervs like me) with a special treat?

I know it's not likely to happen often (or again) but I, for one, would love it.
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Old 2006-03-08, 13:21   Link #10
poyorick
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DaFool: my thoughts exactly!
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Old 2006-03-08, 13:48   Link #11
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poyorick
kj: Good points all, but I'd say that the late night airings, lack of censoring on DVDs, and bonus content on DVDs are still not what I was talking about (or looking for). I think it's great that the studios are willing to give a little extra for the grown-up fans of their shows and characters on these DVDs, but they still play it fairly tame.
That's entirely the point. The people who watch these shows are already grown-ups to begin with. The targets are losers, nerds, geeks in their 20s and 30s, who have no girlfriend, never got laid in their life, guys who have little or no sexual experience, guys who are grown-ups but still resort to jerking off at 2D characters in the ways of XXタソ(*´Д`)ハァハァ

If a person is underage, he/she is not the marketers' primary target. He/she shouldn't be watching these shows anyway. By all means, do kids watch shows late after midnight on a normal weekday? They have school the next day.
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Old 2006-03-08, 14:10   Link #12
poyorick
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Wow, kj, looks like I've been insulted. While I fully admit to being an adult who likes animated eroticism (and who has playfully called himself a "perv"), I don't know that I appreciate being lumped in with:

"losers, nerds, geeks in their 20s and 30s, who have no girlfriend, never got laid in their life, guys who have little or no sexual experience, guys who are grown-ups but still resort to jerking off at 2D characters in the ways of XXタソ(*´Д`)ハァハァ"

Harsh, my brutha.

But, as you say, if these shows are originally intended for an audience of adults, there's no reason to play it coy with the sexual content. That's all I've been saying.
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Old 2006-03-08, 14:18   Link #13
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poyorick
Wow, kj, looks like I've been insulted. While I fully admit to being an adult who likes animated eroticism (and who has playfully called himself a "perv"), I don't know that I appreciate being lumped in with:

"losers, nerds, geeks in their 20s and 30s, who have no girlfriend, never got laid in their life, guys who have little or no sexual experience, guys who are grown-ups but still resort to jerking off at 2D characters in the ways of XXタソ(*´Д`)ハァハァ"

Harsh, my brutha.

But, as you say, if these shows are originally intended for an audience of adults, there's no reason to play it coy with the sexual content. That's all I've been saying.
Sad thing, is I too am a part of that genre. It's called jigyaku in Japanese - you intentionally insult yourself. Even if you aren't, you are still looked upon as that by the majority of the populace. Hey, if you had a life, you would be enjoying "normal" things like tennis and skiing, listening to "real" JPOP, being among the crowd. However, enjoying normal things and watching anime, than you are labelled watching anime = childish loser > living a normal life as well.

See, that's whole thing about living in Japan - if you feel insulted, you feel that you are low. If you don't like it, change yourself to become "normal" like the rest of the populace. If you don't care, then do so as you please - you will still be looked at as a low-life kimo-ota until you change your ways.

Perhaps you are still mistaken - it's intended for adults who are otakus. Normal adults don't watch anime. They have "regular" lives like hanging out with co-workers, going golfing with their peers, working massive overtime to avoid being fired ("restructured") in a stagnating economy.
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Old 2006-03-08, 15:15   Link #14
Gaia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Sad thing, is I too am a part of that genre. It's called jigyaku in Japanese - you intentionally insult yourself. Even if you aren't, you are still looked upon as that by the majority of the populace. Hey, if you had a life, you would be enjoying "normal" things like tennis and skiing, listening to "real" JPOP, being among the crowd. However, enjoying normal things and watching anime, than you are labelled watching anime = childish loser > living a normal life as well.

See, that's whole thing about living in Japan - if you feel insulted, you feel that you are low. If you don't like it, change yourself to become "normal" like the rest of the populace. If you don't care, then do so as you please - you will still be looked at as a low-life kimo-ota until you change your ways.

Perhaps you are still mistaken - it's intended for adults who are otakus. Normal adults don't watch anime. They have "regular" lives like hanging out with co-workers, going golfing with their peers, working massive overtime to avoid being fired ("restructured") in a stagnating economy.
Your posts are very interesting. I learn a lot from them... So japan is probably like densha otoko without the romance part?
Well, it's different here, cause most of the people dont even know what "real" anime is. I used to hang around with a middle aged (30-40) couple, both "real" ota's. They've worn Cool Devices T-Shirts in the city, but it was completly tolerated by the others, since now one knew what it is.
It's still easy to get a semi-goodlooking~goodling girlfriend with same interests here, as an ota. There are three big convention every year... many otaku's go there, while looking for a partner. Often with luck.
I just mention this point, cause I remember, that you've made a post about moving to north europe, if you're able to get an girlfriend there, or am I mistaken? Schleswig-Holstein was also mentioned, so it might be a point to think about.
I've planned to move to japan, after studying. I hope it wont be a big mistake, since I'm also one these stereotypical "nerd-ota's", even if I see it with different eyes.

Back to the topic... I was never able to watch one of these DVD bonus', but it made me more interested. Sadly, it's hard to import these kind of things, cause the package wont make it over the border to 90%.

Aesir

Last edited by Gaia; 2006-03-08 at 15:29.
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Old 2006-03-08, 15:54   Link #15
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir
I just mention this point, cause I remember, that you've made a post about moving to north europe, if you're able to get an girlfriend there, or am I mistaken? Schleswig-Holstein was also mentioned, so it might be a point to think about.
Yep, that was me. Girls there are pretty, and at least I'll get away from this stinking sinkhole called Japan. Oh well, I guess the grass is always greener from the other side.

Tell you what, introduce me to a nice good-looking girl who likes anime and I'll get the heck outta here. Chance to payback people who looked down upon me with "you are stuck with a boring Japanese girl, I have a beautiful foreigner as my girlfriend!"
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Old 2006-03-08, 16:11   Link #16
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Yep, that was me. Girls there are pretty, and at least I'll get away from this stinking sinkhole called Japan. Oh well, I guess the grass is always greener from the other side.

Tell you what, introduce me to a nice good-looking girl who likes anime and I'll get the heck outta here. Chance to payback people who looked down upon me with "you are stuck with a boring Japanese girl, I have a beautiful foreigner as my girlfriend!"
I have some female acquaintances that are experimenting with the world of anime.

Even my younger sister, in her early twenties, has female friends that enjoy anime as much as she does.

But I do not know if would be wise for you to move to my place, that nest of narcos and corrupted, unpunished politicians called México.

This year we have presidential elections, and if either of Juan Andres López Obrador, PRD's (Democratic Revolution Party) candidate for presidency, or Roberto Madrazo, PRI's (Institutional Revolutionary Party; the traditional party that governed México for over 70 years uninterrupted) candidate for presidency, wins then the whole country goes fucked.

Back on topic.
Well, I for once know that ero-ge these days in Japan feature more actual story, plot devices, and substance than merely just erotic and/or pornographic content.
(Note: As you can see, I did not make use of the word "hentai", which is politically incorrect, to refer to ero-games.)
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Old 2006-03-08, 16:55   Link #17
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
I have some female acquaintances that are experimenting with the world of anime.

Even my younger sister, in her early twenties, has female friends that enjoy anime as much as she does.

But I do not know if would be wise for you to move to my place, that nest of narcos and corrupted, unpunished politicians called México.

This year we have presidential elections, and if either of Juan Andres López Obrador, PRD's (Democratic Revolution Party) candidate for presidency, or Roberto Madrazo, PRI's (Institutional Revolutionary Party; the traditional party that governed México for over 70 years uninterrupted) candidate for presidency, wins then the whole country goes fucked.

Back on topic.
Well, I for once know that ero-ge these days in Japan feature more actual story, plot devices, and substance than merely just erotic and/or pornographic content.
(Note: As you can see, I did not make use of the word "hentai", which is politically incorrect, to refer to ero-games.)
Well at least you don't have the PRI in charge right now - we still have the same LDP in charge since 1955 (with a small hole when the LDP aligned with JSP in the early 90s).

But at least your country is an important trade partner with my country - it's thanks to your country's Nissan plants and popularity of Tsurus that helped Nissan stay afloat.
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Old 2006-03-08, 18:11   Link #18
Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
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KJ, I don't think you understand what Poyorick is talking about. Let me help.

Let's take Onegai Teacher for example. Sex happened in that show. Offscreen, but guys and gals did deffinately get lucky. So what I'd (and I belive Poyorick) would like to see is a special episode (DVD-only of course) which showed that content in the same graphic nature as any hentai would only without all the demeaning-to-character stuff that normal hentai usually comes with. Keep them in character and show their intimate times as a beautiful and artistic thing. It can indeed happen and any guy who's ever gotten laid knows that sex isn't always a hot steamy guy-on-10-girl-romp. If you love the person sex is very different. It's expressing through actions what can't be expressed through words.

Now, although you say that most otaku have never had any, I'd be willing to bet that if they liked a series like Onegai Teacher or Saikano that had the potential for such content, that they'd understand the artistic side of this act weither they've experienced it or not.

And besides, I'm willing to bet that the otaku market would go for that, if not for the artistic completion aspect, then for exactly the reasons you mentioned
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Old 2006-03-08, 22:30   Link #19
Eclipze
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Wouldn't it become a problem for the VAs? I mean, when VAs, especially female, take on a eroge or hentai voicing job, they'd use a pen-name.

However, their real name is, most of the time, being used for non-eroge/hentai, so wouldn't voicing the part endanger the "reputation/track record" of the said VAs?

Especially when the VAs later become "famous" for taking part in a big-name anime (say, something like gundam franchise), their "track record" would very likely be dug out by the press (media), and hence reducing job oppotunities for the said VA within the next few months, until the "track record" is forgotten.

This was mentioned somewhat by kj I believe, but it was another issue altogether.
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Old 2006-03-09, 14:47   Link #20
DaFool
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Quote:
The people who watch these shows are already grown-ups to begin with. The targets are losers, nerds, geeks in their 20s and 30s, who have no girlfriend, never got laid in their life, guys who have little or no sexual experience, guys who are grown-ups but still resort to jerking off at 2D characters in the ways of XXタソ(*´Д`)ハァハァ
Haha, nevermind that I have a college degree, is the highest-earning male member of my family, know how to play tennis, and have had many platonic friendships with girls, that label still applies! And perfectly, too!

And kj, don't diss j-women. They are still highly regarded in my eyes at least. Here a man is proud if his wife is "Made in Japan." I fear that the truth is that middle-aged men from North America, Europe, and Japan actually seek wives from the Philippines...the effect is twofold: 1.) Filipinas are regarded with contempt by women from NA / EU / J as the perception is these men are losers from not finding women from their peers, hence they 'marry down' with some third-world woman. 2.) Filipinas who marry foreigners rise in social status (actually it's a simple rise in economic status due to simple exchange rates), thereby inspiring their sisters to achieve the same. Their half-white or half-Japanese or half-Korean children can then can model and compete in Starstruck to become actors / actresses / media personalities and earn more money. Thus, compared with the prospects of marrying a Filipino man--especially one who is not a US citizen--, the choice becomes simple. An expat pensioner being given 1000 bucks a month lives like a king since he earns more than a local white-collar corporate middle manager. In summary, what I'm trying to say is that relationship-wise, I am more screwed than you are.

Eclipze: In the discussion in that other thread it's a given that the actual fans don't really care, or may even savor such exposure. Its just those bigwigs at NHK or what not who care about those things, nevermind that they don't care for anime in the first place. Sadly, the anime industry alone may not be enough to pay those VA's bills, so they have to go to mainstream industry. But I do think the VAs who started 'low' doing eroge and then graduating to galgame-based anime, and then to mainstream anime, will benefit the most, since this will fit perfectly during the transition in their career.

Guido: You're about to reach enlightenment with regards to eroge, here's a diagram to cement your understanding:
http://www.tyth.net/junk/eroge/spectrum.jpg (I didn't make it, but kudos to the one who did...maybe the owner of http://heiseidemocracy.net/. Note: direct links are worksafe, but lead to non-worksafe links)

Last edited by DaFool; 2006-03-09 at 15:02.
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