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Old 2013-12-09, 03:08   Link #32121
maplehurry
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
What puzzles me is why they threw stuff at the SCDF(Singapore Civil Defence Force) people trying to rescue the person who got hit by the bus (apparently pronounced dead on site)... It's still early, and the news reports have been very vague on what caused the spark that led to the rioting.

Hopefully more details will emerge to give a clearer picture on what exactly happened.
Some of the foreign workers felt they are treated poorly, discriminated against. Never get along with the native, and thus an Us vs Them mentality have emerged. They thought this is not a pure accident, and that the (native) bus driver should be criminally charged.
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Old 2013-12-09, 03:30   Link #32122
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
Some of the foreign workers felt they are treated poorly, discriminated against. Never get along with the native, and thus an Us vs Them mentality have emerged. They thought this is not a pure accident, and that the (native) bus driver should be criminally charged.
That is understandable...Up to the point where they attacked emergency response.
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Old 2013-12-09, 03:47   Link #32123
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
And then escalate into full nation riot??
Watch out, you dont know how these desparate foreign worker gets.


Well, social issues. South asians foreign worker often gets treated badly by the official there, and added by some provocation, hoyla, a simple accident can turn for worse. CMIIW.
Have to remember, these are cheap workers hired at cutthroat costs, hence they do not fully understand the "civilised" cultures of developed countries.

To them, policemen are corrupt, real justice is only served when the criminal dies. Trials are a sham to them. Rule of law des not apply to them because they are not local.

And to the posh brainless local population, they are barbarians and slaves who "should be glad they got paid and have a place to work here because most of us are too highly educated to do their menial jobs". Pfft.
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Old 2013-12-09, 04:14   Link #32124
sneaker
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Doesn't this happen in India all the time? I doubt it has much to do with the local authorities.
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Old 2013-12-09, 06:25   Link #32125
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I'm not a Singaporean either, but I know that these sort of things usually not triggered by a pedestrian getting hit by a bus. I'm sure there are other social issues that are brewing behind the scene and was just waiting for a let out. Perhaps a Singaporean would care to enlighten us...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
I'm not a Singaporean, so may I ask why exactly did they riot? I only read that an Indian man was killed by a bus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Doesn't this happen in India all the time? I doubt it has much to do with the local authorities.
To them, any policeman is corrupt. Think pessimistic.

Sometimes I feel for them; an average construction worker here earns S$800-$1000 for up to 6D12H shifts per month. To them, it is alot of money, in India that is around 30k rupee, lodging paid for. I once worked as a guard dealing with these workers, they are simple people; one of them told me he took up the job so he could send his son to Mumbai to study in university; and had sold his tea stand to come here.

The troublemakers are those that are single and not married, most of them told me, getting drunk, bringing girls into the dorms, etc.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2013-12-09 at 06:42.
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Old 2013-12-09, 06:44   Link #32126
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
And then escalate into full nation riot??
Watch out, you dont know how these desparate foreign worker gets.


Well, social issues. South asians foreign worker often gets treated badly by the official there, and added by some provocation, hoyla, a simple accident can turn for worse. CMIIW.
More like a street wide, 'just' 400 people

Deceased foreign worker in Little India Riot was drunk: Police


Quote:
The 33-year-old Indian national who died after being run over by a bus was drunk, said Singapore police in new details that emerged from its investigation into an accident that triggered the first riot in Singapore in more than 40 years.

In a press conference on Monday afternoon, police told local media that the man, reportedly identified as construction worker Sakthivel Kumarvelu, was drunk and causing trouble when he boarded the bus that eventually ran him down.

According to tweets from local media, the bus was full but he climbed on anyway, causing a nuisance. It is unclear what happened after that but Channel NewsAsia reported that a Singaporean "female timekeeper on (the) bus (was) assaulted", and the 55-year-old bus driver closed its doors.
A mix of alcohol fueled courage and recklessness maybe?

Quote:
The 25 emergency vehicles that were damaged, alongside five set on fire, in the riots were also removed in the hours that followed, and Race Course Road and Hampshire Road, where they happened, were opened by 6:45am Monday
That seems like a unusually high number of emergency vehicles damaged...

If I'm right, there's quite a few CCTVs in that area, should be seeing a lot of arrests soon.
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Old 2013-12-09, 06:47   Link #32127
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
The 33-year-old Indian national who died after being run over by a bus was drunk
That is normal. Nothing else to see here. Carry on.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-12-09, 06:54   Link #32128
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
In a press conference on Monday afternoon, police told local media that the man, reportedly identified as construction worker Sakthivel Kumarvelu, was drunk and causing trouble when he boarded the bus that eventually ran him down.
What? Our bus doors are at the sides- Did he jumped in front of the bus in protest =_= ?
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:01   Link #32129
Azuma Denton
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Wait wait wait, that doesnt make sense.
How can he
1. board the bus
2. being forced to get out
3. being runed by bus??

Bus door is on the side, and how did the he ended up below the bus?
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:27   Link #32130
MeoTwister5
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Meh happens here everyday. The drivers are sometimes drunk, sometimes high, usually both.
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:38   Link #32131
Sleep_ping
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Meh happens here everyday. The drivers are sometimes drunk, sometimes high, usually both.
More like the one knocked down was the one drunk, rather than the driver.

This case certainly highlights the flaws of the local system, in regards to the foreign talent policy, the general apathy or overzealous responses shown by the public, and also more deep-lying issues that still need time to iron out. In other words, it brought about the Ugly in Singapore (well, a quarter of it anyway...)

While every person is an idiot to an extent, I do find solace that there was at least a sane foreign worker who tried to stop his countryman.

I suppose this case certainly will be a wake-up call (then again, every single mishap has become one...just look at SMRT for example). It is human nature to be complacent, but the hardship will certainly mean that there is a need to step up.

Apparantly, after the guy got chased off the bus, the driver tried to turn left (note, in Singapore, the bus doors are on the left), and then the guy got knocked down. Looking at it, it seemed he wanted to block the bus, but didn't think it through, and it cost him his life.
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:40   Link #32132
SeijiSensei
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Thai Premier Calls for Elections, but Protests Continue

Other than frustration with their inability to win elections, and a general veneer of sour grapes, what exactly does the Thai Democrat party and its supporters really want? The current unrest seems remarkably similar to that before the 2006 military coup which deposed Yingluck's brother and sent him into exile. Luckily, for now, the military seems disinclined to intervene once more.

I haven't seen much discussion of the types of people who are protesting in Thailand. Are they young? Old? Royalists? Middle-class liberals? The poor? The well-off? To an outsider with limited information, this conflict looks more like a turf war between contending elites than a popular movement with an agenda for policy change.

The contrast with the people in the streets of Kiev, who have a clear objective of forcing the government to sign the accord with the EU, is striking.
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:44   Link #32133
Sleep_ping
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
~snip~
Honestly, the situation there just screams (assumed) Animal Farm to me...except with revolts...like, every year or something?
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Old 2013-12-09, 10:06   Link #32134
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
More like a street wide, 'just' 400 people

Deceased foreign worker in Little India Riot was drunk: Police


A mix of alcohol fueled courage and recklessness maybe?

That seems like a unusually high number of emergency vehicles damaged...

If I'm right, there's quite a few CCTVs in that area, should be seeing a lot of arrests soon.
My shorter, and hopefully less cluttered version of the events, as given by the police at their 5pm news conference today (Dec 9).

Police release timeline of events leading to riot
Quote:
The police say the Criminal Investigation Department has started investigations into the riot in Little India on Sunday night.

The riot involving about 400 people was sparked off by a fatal accident involving a private bus and a pedestrian.

The deceased has been identified as a 33 year old male Indian national, Sakthivel Kumaravelu.

At a briefing today, police also released a timeline of the events leading to the riot.

TL;DR…
 
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
938LIVE
It's been an exciting weekend, a truly once-in-50-year event, as far as Singapore is concerned. I got the call from my editor at 11.30pm on Sunday night. I was literally in my pyjamas.

Her initial brief was for me to go down to the scene in the morning to report the damage and gather reactions from people in the area.

I immediately checked social media. A colleague of mine, the social-media queen in our team, had already been Whatsapp'ing us the developments as early as 11pm. By that time, the Special Operations Command was already well on the way of dispersing the crowd.

Hardly any of us were paying attention to the news at the time — it was Sunday night, after all, with expectations of a slow news day the next day.

By midnight, practically the entire reporting team at my station was awake. We were rapidly updating each other as quickly as possible over our private Whatsapp group.

I decided, heck, I should be a busybody. I was the only one in the team with a car, so I drove off in T-shirt, bermudas and sandals (and with my recording equipment, of course), intending just to catch sight of events unfolding first-hand.

The e-mail from Police Headquarters arrived at just after midnight, calling a news conference at 1.30am. I immediately called my editor and turned back to get changed.

One of my colleague was dispatched to the incident scene right away, while I sped off to the police headquarters in the wee hours.

By the time my colleague arrived, the rioting was already over. The situation was under control, the cordon set up. But the damage was still there. Wrecked vehicles, including the smoking skeletons of police and civil-defence vehicles that had been set on fire.

News conference during the wee hours

Meanwhile, practically the entire press corps had gathered at the Police news conference room. 1.30am came and went. It was until around 2am before the Deputy Prime Minister arrived with his colleague, the Second Minister for Home Affairs, along with the Police Commissioner and his deputy.

The DPM and 2MIN had just returned from the incident site and the delay was because they were being debriefed by police officers of the latest figures and news.

My colleague at TV was desperate to beam the news conference live, but unfortunately the reception was poor, so it ended up being broadcast late.

Soundbites gathered, I rushed back to the newsroom, clocking in at around 3.30am. Hammered away the first reports and it was 5.30am by the time the first "writes" and "radio SOTs" were written, vetted and put on queue for the first bulletins at 6am.

Throughout this time, the reporter colleague of mine at the scene had been taken into the cordoned area by police officers. He and other reporters took photos of the aftermath.

He got back to the newsroom at about 5am, just as I was finishing up my reports.

It was already near dawn. My colleague had been tasked to cover reactions from shopkeepers and residents in the area first thing in the morning.

I was supposed to head back home for rest, to return at 12pm for follow-ups, but I was running on adrenaline, so my colleague and I headed down to the scene again.

We arrived at about 6am. I think my colleague and I, plus another reporter from TV were the only reporters on scene at that time. The damaged vehicles were being cleared, with the private bus that sparked the whole incident towed away at about 6.30am.

After videoing that, I dropped by the newsroom again to upload the clip before heading back home to sleep.

The next whirlwind round

From 12pm, it was a mad whirl of keeping up with the updates while chasing the relevant authorities for comments and reactions. Caught wind of a social-media initiative for people to meet in the area later on Monday evening to spread "flowers of peace and reconciliation".

Tracked down the person who started the initiative via mutual Facebook friends and interviewed him. Filed the story at about 3.30pm.

Next learnt that police were holding another news conference at 5pm, but they had forgotten to inform us radio reporters. We learnt about it from a report on a rival news website at 4.45pm. Mad rush to the police headquarters, getting there just in time (I'm glad now that I drive!).

Hence the above report.

Going to crash out now.

This was what I signed up for, recording and writing the first rough draft of history.

It'll be a weekend to remember for a long, long time.
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Old 2013-12-09, 10:42   Link #32135
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Wait wait wait, that doesnt make sense.
How can he
1. board the bus
2. being forced to get out
3. being runed by bus??

Bus door is on the side, and how did the he ended up below the bus?
Who knows if this is like that recent US case where some thug got run over by a guy in a car he was trying to assault...
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Old 2013-12-09, 10:55   Link #32136
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Who knows if this is like that recent US case where some thug got run over by a guy in a car he was trying to assault...
The man was drunk and behaving very badly. At one point, he even dropped his trousers while in the bus, police said.

I'm speculating, but it's likely he got off the bus in an alcohol-fuelled daze, wandered to the left-rear side of the bus while it was turning left into Race Course Road from Tekka Lane.

By the way, vehicles are right-hand drive in Singapore. That is, the driver is on the right side of the vehicle. The bus doors are on the left side of the vehicle. The deceased would have got off, therefore, on the left.

As most of us well know, the turning radius of a bus is huge. And the crowds in the area are usually huge at that time of Sunday night, with people milling about and jaywalking all over the place. Meaning to say it would have been a nightmare for any driver of a large vehicle to navigate.

The deceased was found pinned under the left-rear tyre of the bus after the driver got off to investigate a loud bang.

The aerial view of the area compiled by The Straits Times should help clarify what went on. The bus is the blue-and-white vehicle at the junction of Tekka Lane and Race Course Road. Notice its position. As I said, it was turning left into Race Course Road from Tekka Lane when the accident occurred.
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Old 2013-12-09, 11:02   Link #32137
Cosmic Eagle
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Driver may also be too agitated to check the left mirror...

Anyway most of those workers are rather peaceable actually....But mob effect changes things of course
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Old 2013-12-09, 11:37   Link #32138
Sumeragi
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Since it seems to be under the radar for most people here: North Korea images confirm removal of Kim Jong-un's uncle Chang Song-thaek

Quote:
North Korea has broadcast images of the once-powerful uncle of leader Kim Jong-un being removed from a meeting, confirming reports of his dismissal.

The dramatic images show Chang Song-thaek being escorted from a party session by uniformed guards.

The state news agency KCNA accused Mr Chang of forming factions against the state, corruption and "depraved" acts such as womanising and drug abuse.

Analysts say such a public dismissal is unique and could signal a wider purge.

It is the biggest upheaval in North Korea's leadership since Mr Kim succeeded his father two years ago. Seen as an economic reformer, Mr Chang handled talks with Pyongyang's only major ally, China.

The KCNA state news agency said the decision was announced after a meeting of the ruling communist Korean Workers' Party Politburo over the weekend.

News of his dismissal filtered out in South Korea last week along with reports that two of his close aides had been executed for corruption. It is unclear when these latest images date from.

'Dissolute' life
The KCNA report accuses Mr Chang of being part of a faction working against the North Korean state.

"Chang pretended to uphold the party and leader but was engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams and involving himself in double-dealing behind the scenes."

It accused him of offences such as financial mismanagement and selling off national resources for his personal gain, but it also denounced him for leading what it called "a dissolute and depraved life".

"Ideologically sick and extremely idle and easy-going, he used drugs and squandered foreign currency at casinos while he was receiving medical treatment in a foreign country under the care of the party," the KCNA report said.

It added that he had "improper relations" with several women and "was wined and dined at back parlours of deluxe restaurants".

The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Seoul says such an official announcement detailing his alleged crimes is unique.

Almost overnight, Chang Song-thaek has morphed from uncle and mentor to North Korea's young leader, to "anti-revolutionary" criminal outcast, our correspondent reports.

She adds that this could be seen as the latest in a series of carefully calibrated moves to demonstrate Kim Jong-un's control, yet another sign of his authority and an assertion of his independence.

Mr Chang is reported to have been stripped of all his positions and expelled from the party.

On Saturday, North Korean state TV was also reported to have removed footage of Mr Chang from a documentary.

Past disappearance
Mr Chang had held senior posts in the ruling party and the National Defence Commission, the North's top military body.

He was seen as a key powerbroker at the time Kim Jong-un took over after Kim Jong-il died in 2011 - he is married to the elder Kim's sister.

He has often been pictured beside Kim Jong-un and was seen by some observers as the power behind the throne.

But despite his family ties to the leadership and senior status, he has been targeted in purges in the past.

In 2004, despite his place in the Kim family, he disappeared from public view.

One report at the time, citing South Korean intelligence, said Mr Chang had been placed under house arrest.

Others suggested he had been sent for "re-education". However, two years later he appeared to have been reinstated.

Things are being shaken up north. I'll be in Korea tomorrow also.
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Old 2013-12-09, 12:43   Link #32139
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh_Ping View Post
More like the one knocked down was the one drunk, rather than the driver.

This case certainly highlights the flaws of the local system, in regards to the foreign talent policy, the general apathy or overzealous responses shown by the public, and also more deep-lying issues that still need time to iron out. In other words, it brought about the Ugly in Singapore (well, a quarter of it anyway...)

While every person is an idiot to an extent, I do find solace that there was at least a sane foreign worker who tried to stop his countryman.

I suppose this case certainly will be a wake-up call (then again, every single mishap has become one...just look at SMRT for example). It is human nature to be complacent, but the hardship will certainly mean that there is a need to step up.

Apparantly, after the guy got chased off the bus, the driver tried to turn left (note, in Singapore, the bus doors are on the left), and then the guy got knocked down. Looking at it, it seemed he wanted to block the bus, but didn't think it through, and it cost him his life.
Having these Indian foreign workers is inevitable, do you really want to work as a construction worker @ $800/mth?

The problem is with assigning proper manpower to deal with them; namely less women, or send the timekeeper for security licensing. Technically speaking, it would be the best interests of the public that the worker was brought back to the dorm ASAP, but the drunkard was deemed too much of a hassle to deal with by the driver and the timekeeper to be on board; at least in the bunk, his buddies can dump cold water over him to wake him up.

And the police commissioner of the district needs to be decommissioned. The place has been a traffic nightmare for years and the TP only watches out for illegal parking around Tekka and Mustafa.

Also, when I was traveling about today, I saw a number of middle aged men exiting the police KINS training facility. Looks like they are NSmen being recalled on short-notice to standby for flareups, given their potbellies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The man was drunk and behaving very badly. At one point, he even dropped his trousers while in the bus, police said.

I'm speculating, but it's likely he got off the bus in an alcohol-fuelled daze, wandered to the left-rear side of the bus while it was turning left into Race Course Road from Tekka Lane.

By the way, vehicles are right-hand drive in Singapore. That is, the driver is on the right side of the vehicle. The bus doors are on the left side of the vehicle. The deceased would have got off, therefore, on the left.

As most of us well know, the turning radius of a bus is huge. And the crowds in the area are usually huge at that time of Sunday night, with people milling about and jaywalking all over the place. Meaning to say it would have been a nightmare for any driver of a large vehicle to navigate.

The deceased was found pinned under the left-rear tyre of the bus after the driver got off to investigate a loud bang.

The aerial view of the area compiled by The Straits Times should help clarify what went on. The bus is the blue-and-white vehicle at the junction of Tekka Lane and Race Course Road. Notice its position. As I said, it was turning left into Race Course Road from Tekka Lane when the accident occurred.
Speaking from experience and knowing some regulars who worked there under security, usually the general rule is that the guards around the area would call for the "abangs" (fellow Indians) sitting in the nearby grass patch to bring their "friend" over before calling the police to "take him into custody", which is usually detaining him until he becomes sober enough to go back to his dorm himself. Filing him under the Public Order & Nuisance Act would be a messy case of putting him on ICA's deportation list; meaning that he might be forced to go back without finish earning what he wants.

I wonder what kind of impact this has got on the laidback mood every day after work/weekend at Tekka market. Usually the vendors make good business matching beer and food to cater to the low-skill Bangladeshi/Indian workers, but without the alcohol flowing, will it be a bigger case for a fight, or will they bring their drinks from elsewhere like the nearby Mustafa Centre, which actually sells stronger alcohol?

Doesn't help that the fact that the driver is Chinese and the timekeeper is female. The workers come from a very chauvanistic society, AND being a political and economic enemy to China, it certainly doesn't help to have two people who are seen to be against them.

Oh nice someone called for an alcohol free zone :

Singapore MP wants to turn Little India into alcohol-free zone

Quote:
Singapore's Little India could be declared an alcohol-free zone soon if several MPs and business owners had their way.

The “Straits Times” reported that the idea had the full support of the shopowners who were previously against it.

The daily reported that the Ministry of Home Affairs had mooted the proposal and is now seeking the views of the people on two aspects which are – “banning alcohol consumption in common areas like void decks and pavements and limiting the hours during which stores can sell alcohol”.

The concerns about drinking in public have been raised by MPs and residents, who, along with business owners, are calling for tougher measures to be taken.

Moulmein-Kallang GRC MP Denise Phua, whose constituency includes Little India, urged the Government to “take a bold stand in the matter”.

Phua said the ministry’s previous measures, such as counselling, have not worked because they needed time and most workers were only there temporarily.

She suggested that stores near residential zones should not be issued any liquor licences, adding that a separate building be used for the workers to gather.

A survey of the area by the “Straits Times” showed that it was filled with foreign workers at night on weekends.

A shop worker was quoted as saying that at least 1,000 workers frequent his store on a Sunday night.

Another store owner admitted that business had gone down by 30%, adding that he planned to convert his business to one selling phones as it will be “much more peaceful”.

A resident of Little India – R.P. Ramalingam told the “Straits Times”: "I can't go out on Sundays and my relatives don't want to come here. There are bottles everywhere and the smell of urine".

Last night, riot broke out in the area around 10pm after a Bangladeshi worker was hit by a bus. The mob is believed to consist of mostly foreign workers.

In the incident, at least two police vehicles were overturned and an ambulance was set on fire. – December 9, 2013.
And a more accurate interview of what is there, especially that chap at the end. Yes. Fights ARE common around that area, and probably worse than Macpherson.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2013-12-09 at 13:35.
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Old 2013-12-09, 13:39   Link #32140
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Since it seems to be under the radar for most people here: North Korea images confirm removal of Kim Jong-un's uncle Chang Song-thaek
The BBC's audio version of this story followed Williamson's report by interviewing a former UK ambassador to South Korea. He believes the purge represents a conflict over the DPRK's relationship with China. Uncle Chang was the North's primary negotiator with its large neighbor. When asked what the ambassador thought the line in the communique about "dreaming different dreams" meant, he saw it as a direct rebuff to China. The "different dream" in this case was one of closer political and economic ties between the two countries. Kim's faction seems to prefer a return to a more insular economy and still hasn't forgiven China for its lack of support after the DPRK's most recent missile test.
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