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Old 2013-10-19, 12:32   Link #181
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I also ask because I sometimes see people openly (outside of spoiler spaces) bring up a certain Madoka Magica character in pretty telling comparisons relating to that "every anime fan and their mother knows it" scene.
Please report these so they can be tagged (and if necessary warned/infracted). People should just use spoiler tags for all comparisons. It's not about whether the thing in the comparison is "really a spoiler or not", it's just the fact that you're bringing up another show that other people haven't watched. Our "Spoiler Policy" is really defined more by what is "on-topic" and, as it says, "Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler." We specifically wrote it that way to avoid this sort of ambiguity. Any time you bring up another show at all (while in a different context), tag it.

Another recent example of this where I added spoiler tags was when people are discussing eroge adaptations, and they say something like "this show will follow the main heroine route unless this show goes for a twist ending, like <x show> and <y show>". People just say this casually as if everyone has watched those other shows and knows that the "main heroine" doesn't end up as the final romantic pairing. Now, if someone hasn't watched the show, you ruined the twist for them (even if you didn't say who the final pairing is, you've biased their viewing experience to watch for things). So this is another case where the entire comment should be tagged, referencing what show you'll be referring to, but without explaining why. Or, better yet, just avoid giving examples and people who have watched those shows can fill it in with their own experience. In some recent cases, I edited the posts by removing the examples, since the comment could stand without it.

So anyway, summary: all comparisons and references to other shows must be tagged, no matter what is being discussed, not based on whether it's a "spoiler" but based simply on it being a comparison to another show.
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Old 2013-10-20, 17:47   Link #182
Kanon
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Is it really necessary to tag comparisons that have absolutely no spoilers whatsoever? I just saw that in the Nagi no Asukara thread and was quite shocked. That's just an annoyance, not to mention misleading. Spoiler tags should only be used for actual spoilers when we're talking about other series. Learning a series has filler episodes and a slow moving plot isn't going to hurt anybody, on the contrary. It's a valuable information.
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Old 2013-10-20, 18:55   Link #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Is it really necessary to tag comparisons that have absolutely no spoilers whatsoever? I just saw that in the Nagi no Asukara thread and was quite shocked. That's just an annoyance, not to mention misleading. Spoiler tags should only be used for actual spoilers when we're talking about other series. Learning a series has filler episodes and a slow moving plot isn't going to hurt anybody, on the contrary. It's a valuable information.
Yes. That is what the spoiler policy has said for years.

Quote:
Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler. [...]

Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:
  • Comparing one story to another, when such comparisons are useful or informative. (These spoiler tags must always be labeled with the name of the other work whose spoilers it contains.)
You may think the comment is "innocuous", but even if the first post "doesn't contain any spoilers", it's quite likely that a reply that takes it further will get into it. The whole conversation is tagged so that the comparison is contained. If the person making the comment wants to clarify that the comparison doesn't reveal any important details, they should mention this in the spoiler tag label.

As I've mentioned to people before when this has come up, our site's definition of a "spoiler" is not the same as some other places you may go. The spoiler policy explains what our definition is. I'd encourage everyone to read it and not just assume they know what the staff here will deem a spoiler.
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Old 2013-12-19, 12:47   Link #184
ellessarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK
Ellessarr, your concerns are worth discussing, but not here in this thread where debate about the spoiler policy is off-topic. I suggest you post your questions in the Spoiler Policy Q&A thread where you can make your case and be on-topic as well.
ok since moderator asked here we go:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr
Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny
What's more "lazy"? Not spending every waking moment ferreting out minutiae about a series that is likely not the only series you're following at the moment, or not highlighting a paragraph, hitting the Spoiler Tag button, and typing in a warning?

The reasonable assumption is that not everyone is going to immediately go digging for information about the series all over the internet. Yes, there are "casual viewers" of anime. Also, this forum is not an A-B conversation. People are joining and leaving all the time, and the ignorant noob (in the descriptive, not pejorative, sense) that registered an hour ago is just as much a part of the "conversation" as some guy that might have found and read leaked copies of the light novels on /a/ before they even came out in Japan. But even then, this thread is not about the light novels, so anything that hasn't been revealed in the anime yet (or may not even be revealed this series) is a spoiler. Just like casual watchers have a responsibility to either keep current with the anime or not complain when we don't wait for them, those who have learned about spoilers have the extra responsibility not to ruin it for everyone else. It's common courtesy.

If it's not yet in the anime, wrap it in spoiler quotes. If it's a link, at least warn about spoilers. It's that simple. End of story.
but my concern here is was the info was on the oficial anime site, and was just a character "background" info where anyone who can read/know japanese could read without any problem

is the same if in the sinopse of a movie or series or anime come and say character a lost his family but i anime not was showed ths. then we gonna consider spoiler???? will be proibited???

like i told if this was a info who indeed was leaked from futures chapters of the source(ln) then fine but a info who come with the anime then for me is not spoiler is just character background showed in the anime oficial site, what means who now will be denied post links from oficial animes sites???? because their can have info who for some peoples is not supposed to have" because their know more about the anime or the source than the oficial site?.
for sumarizing, for me what happened in the yuusha thread could not be considered spoiler, since was a info who come from oficial anime site(not ln or manga or whatever other source)

was a background character info who anyone who can read japanese could be acknowledge and just because animews translated the info just for peoples who can't understood japanese this dont means who was invalid spoiler

that info was a normal info who anyone could be aware before start to watch the anime

if everytime appear in a sinopse or background character a info(from the oficial source) who not appear in animr or not appear early will be against the rules then a lot of animes and thread could break this rule a long time ago.

i dont have problem when indeed peoples using references from others sources like the ln or manga to spoiler future chapters but "old news" who are supposed to be open knowledge, sound very wrong.

at last for me anime oficial site is part of the anime, their provide the info their thing is good to know for us before start to watch anime or when watch.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-12-19 at 18:09. Reason: removed links
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Old 2013-12-19, 18:30   Link #185
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I want to note first that I removed the tangent from the other thread.

The long and short answer is that our definition of a spoiler is different than what some people think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy
Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler. Check the thread's title and forum to determine what is allowed. For example, in an anime thread (e.g. threads in the Current Series forum), information from the manga, novels, or games would be considered a spoiler. In a thread about a specific episode of a show (in series-specific forums like the Naruto forum), information about future episodes would be considered a spoiler. In a thread about one show, information about a different show would be considered a spoiler (e.g. revealing Kanon's plot in a Clannad thread is a spoiler). So pay attention to the topic and forum. Restrict your discussion to the subject in question since anything else is a spoiler!

Exceptions:
Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:
  • Posting and discussing content found on official sites or blogs.
  • Answering specific questions about past or current events using knowledge of the source material, so long as these questions will not be answered by the adaptation itself in the future. (We strongly encourage posters to discuss any spoilers via PM, rather than in the work's discussion thread.)
  • Comparing events in an adaptation to the way they were presented in the source material or other adaptations. (Discussions about the source material itself, or extended comparisons should be directed to the appropriate manga/novel/game thread.)
  • Comparing one story to another, when such comparisons are useful or informative. (These spoiler tags must always be labeled with the name of the other work whose spoilers it contains.)
Regardless of these exceptions, any comment that discloses an event, character, plot or other information before it is revealed within the specific work being discussed is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.
This means, among other things, that you can only reference content found on official sites or blogs (or similar sources) behind spoiler tags. If it didn't happen in the anime, it has to be tagged. If it hasn't happened in the anime yet, then it can't be posted at all.

The main reason for all this is that it's a simple distinction that you can apply globally without having to figure out on a case-by-case basis "Is this information the viewer is supposed to know coming into the show?" Everyone would draw a different line about how much research they think is reasonable for others to be told about, and it would be impossible for the moderators to make a decision unless they too are intimately familiar with the source material. So, instead, we made the rule as explained above, which revolves entirely around the "on-topic" principle. Anything that didn't happen in the anime is off-topic, but certain exceptions are made as long as they're tagged, which gives people the choice if they want to read the supplemental information or not.

So, although you may not think the information is a spoiler in this case, we still require that it be placed behind properly-labelled spoiler tags. The label should explain the purpose and context of the spoiler so that people can make an informed decision if they want this information or not. You could say for example:

Spoiler for Extra information found on the official site:

...and then people would see that and maybe they'll think "oh, if it's found on the official site, then I want to read it".

But if you compare to a different show, like:

Spoiler for Comparison to the ending of Evangelion 3.0 movie:

...someone might say "oh, I haven't watched that movie yet, so I don't want to open the tag right now".


So that's basically the principle of our tagging system. It allows people to make informed decisions about what out-of-anime information they want to read, and what they want to skip over.

(And obviously this does not trump the fact that anything that hasn't happened yet is forbidden no matter what, whether or not you use tags. This is because a) it's better-suited to the source thread (where the source is on-topic), and b) it prevents people from going on page-after-page of extended tangents about the source material in anime threads. If people want to talk about the source, they should go to the source thread.)
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Old 2014-06-09, 21:31   Link #186
Marcus H.
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I've been wondering.

Has the new Spoiler Policy made source readers more aggressive towards anime-only watchers? I feel that the source readers, in fear of being banned for giving out answers to questions asked by anime-only fans, have been relying on the READ THE SOURCE response in most Anime Episode Discussion threads.
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Old 2014-06-10, 07:22   Link #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I've been wondering.

Has the new Spoiler Policy made source readers more aggressive towards anime-only watchers? I feel that the source readers, in fear of being banned for giving out answers to questions asked by anime-only fans, have been relying on the READ THE SOURCE response in most Anime Episode Discussion threads.
Am I correct in thinking that you're not getting any answers to spoiler questions you ask in an anime thread? One solution that has worked for me personally is to say in my thread post that I would like the spoiler answer sent to me in a PM. Spoilers sent via PM do not violate the spoiler regulations. Plus it lets source readers know that I really do want a spoiler answer as opposed to just verbally wondering about what's going to happen next. I can't guarantee that you'll get an answer this way, of course, but you'll never know until you try.
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Old 2014-06-10, 09:08   Link #188
Marcus H.
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No, it's not about Mahouka anymore. It's more about anime episode discussions in general.
I felt that no one has tried to open a discussion among anime-only fans and those exposed to the source about anime-only stuff out of fear of being banned. That's why most threads have been dead, because nobody can even speculate within the bounds of the anime without treading into spoiler territory, when it's possible to talk about the anime while avoiding stepping on any lines in the process.

I wonder how many users we have lost just because the rules have been too strict when it comes to spoilers...
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Old 2014-06-10, 11:25   Link #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I wonder how many users we have lost just because the rules have been too strict when it comes to spoilers...
Conversely, there are a number of people who discuss on this forum because we have clearer policies about spoilers than a lot of other places on the Internet, as they feel that they can watch and discuss the anime on its own without randomly having future events spoiled for them.

There is plenty of spoiler discussion on these forums; in fact we've recently expanded the methods for discussing the source for certain franchises, and the light novel threads are some of the most popular on the site. The spoiler policy does not prohibit the discussion of spoilers at all, only forces them to go in the more appropriate thread (which is the thread for the source or another more-specific thread, if it exists). So if there are really users leaving because they can't show the courtesy of not spoiling/hinting at future events in anime threads and they consider that "too strict"... well, I hope they find some place else that makes them happy, as I guess it won't be here.
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Old 2014-06-10, 15:06   Link #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I've been wondering.

Has the new Spoiler Policy made source readers more aggressive towards anime-only watchers? I feel that the source readers, in fear of being banned for giving out answers to questions asked by anime-only fans, have been relying on the READ THE SOURCE response in most Anime Episode Discussion threads.
That's never a reason to be a dick. If you can't be a dick without breaking rules, then the rule is working and you need to reconsider your behavior and perhaps even reconsider if you belong in a community that enforces and respects these rules. Plus there's a dedicated thread to redirect any source things.

There are certainly things such as major reveals and surprises that can't be explained without spoiling, however, even bringing up such suggestion is poisoning the well and not a proper means of helping people directing proper perspective.

For example, if someone said there's nothing special about Madoka Magica after the first 2 episodes, it is not proper form to spoil episode 3 as a valid argument. One needs to put it from the perspective of that kind of progress. Furthermore, if someone didn't see anything standout about the first 2 episodes, then there's already problems with the style that may not allow them to appreciate whatever twists the story may bring that others enjoyed.

You have to realize from someone that's already familiar with the material and devoted enough to watch the adaptation is naturally more accepting of the narrative and its styles and themes. You can't treat that as a universal viewpoint at all.

Simply to point out, we have rules that challenge people to actually formulate their arguments instead of source thumping, and I would agree that it increases the level of discussion.

I am a part of certain communities that don't allow cussing. While I strongly disagree with such rules, I don't go around circumventing their word filter just because "omg I have to express myself". And to me, going around the spoiler policy here is no different from that. You're just showing zero respect for the community involved, and there's only one reason for that-- being a self important annoyance and naturally the drama queen complaining when it doesn't go their way is a natural follow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
No, it's not about Mahouka anymore. It's more about anime episode discussions in general.
I felt that no one has tried to open a discussion among anime-only fans and those exposed to the source about anime-only stuff out of fear of being banned. That's why most threads have been dead, because nobody can even speculate within the bounds of the anime without treading into spoiler territory, when it's possible to talk about the anime while avoiding stepping on any lines in the process.

I wonder how many users we have lost just because the rules have been too strict when it comes to spoilers...
That's simply false. There's plenty of active threads around here. I mean the Hunter x Hunter doesn't have just 4700 posts of passive-aggressive source readers dominating the discussion, and there's plenty of active series forums. And honestly, I have never seen what you describe to begin with, beyond some mediocre manga/ln adaptations that were obscure to begin with.

You would make a stronger point if you could localize your concerns instead of generalizing the issue since the later approach will quickly invalidate your argument as soon as a contradictory experience is found. I mean take your base argument-- there's plenty of other reasons why a thread would suffer low activity, well it's probably more relevant than the phase of the moon. By how much? I wouldn't know. In general, if one wishes to rant, it's best to go with *I* am impacted with thus, rather then going on something about concerns of the general populace.
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Old 2014-06-10, 16:13   Link #191
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I think that anime-original viewers and source material fans are becoming more aware of the considerable difference between them in how they experience the anime.

For a source material fan, the key is seeing a narrative they already like/love come to life. The hope is that their favorite scenes won't get the axe, that key parts of characterization will be maintained in the medium transition, and that overall source material faithfulness will be the aim of the anime. They already are fans of the source material, so whether or not they'll like the story or characters generally isn't an issue for them. They already know that, at least on the whole, they do like the story and characters.

For us anime-only viewers, we're approaching this like we do any other anime. The first and central question is "Do I like this show?" And to answer that, everything is considered. So elements that the source material fan long ago accepted are ones that can be big issues for anime-only viewers, sometimes surprisingly so (there's one particular element like this with Mahouka that surprised even me as an anime-original viewer). Now, once the anime-only viewer decides that "Yes, I like this show", s/he might get into some series speculation. This likely holds little interest to the source material fan because they're almost positive of what is in fact going to happen (the only way it won't happen is the anime choosing to not be faithful to the source material).

So there's a big difference in how a source material fan experiences an anime, and how an anime-only viewer experiences it. Over the last few years, I think this fact has become slowly but steadily clearer to both types of viewers, and so people are aware that bridging this gulf can be hard sometimes. So perhaps some don't bother as much as they used to.

Anime Suki provides a place where anime-only viewer and source material fan can come together, and converse over the anime they're both watching. And the spoiler policy ensures that this discussion is reasonably safe for anime-only viewers. But it's nonetheless up to AS members/users themselves how much they want to discuss the anime with people on "the other side".


Now, on the specific point of "I want to know this one specific spoiler, but I don't want to be spoiled on everything!", yes, I sympathize with that. Every now and then, I'm like that myself. But for that specific instance, there's two decent options:

1. What LKK suggested a few posts above.

2. Pick a AS user that seems to be familiar with the source, and PM him or her about it. This is what I usually do when I want a specific piece of spoiler information, but no more than that.
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Old 2014-06-10, 19:08   Link #192
Marcus H.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
So if there are really users leaving because they can't show the courtesy of not spoiling/hinting at future events in anime threads and they consider that "too strict"... well, I hope they find some place else that makes them happy, as I guess it won't be here.
There was a time where spoilers and topics appearing all over the place doesn't seem like an issue. For me, that was a comfortable time where you can just talk about a specific series without getting infractions for "not discussing x topic on x thread and not discussion y topic on y thread". Maybe the users at that time (which vastly outnumber our current population) simply know where to look at and often deal with spoilers from the user-side.

On bolded: I don't really mind if there are people who leave on their own. However, those who were banned for spoilers were notable losses to particular discussions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing
*snip*
It may just be me, but I never considered posting spoilers as being a dick. But then again, I can forget or don't mind spoilers if I want to, so that's not a problem. And yes, that comes from someone who have been spoiled in almost every recent anime series I have watched, including light novel spoilers in Toaru Majutsu no Index, VN spoilers in Steins;Gate, and manga spoilers in Tokyo Ravens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing
That's simply false. There's plenty of active threads around here. I mean the Hunter x Hunter doesn't have just 4700 posts of passive-aggressive source readers dominating the discussion, and there's plenty of active series forums. And honestly, I have never seen what you describe to begin with, beyond some mediocre manga/ln adaptations that were obscure to begin with.
Comparing Hunter x Hunter to a "mediocre" and "obscure" adaptation of a manga or LN is unfair to begin with. That said, there are a handful of those LN fans who get the axe in their own thread, which is one of my concerns. The already small fanbase for Toaru Majutsu no Index, for example, has trimmed down a bit due to spoilers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing
Simply to point out, we have rules that challenge people to actually formulate their arguments instead of source thumping, and I would agree that it increases the level of discussion.
I really don't care about the level of discussion. Sure, I've been in the cesspool called 4chan too, but AnimeSuki is a forum first and foremost, so I don't really care about the level of discussion as long as people don't start calling each other names. That doesn't mean that the READ THE SOURCE card isn't dealt when anime-only fans start complaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R
*snip*
Just one question: Do anime-only fans and source fans really need to be that segregated?
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Old 2014-06-10, 19:21   Link #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
It may just be me, but I never considered posting spoilers as being a dick. But then again, I can forget or don't mind spoilers if I want to, so that's not a problem. And yes, that comes from someone who have been spoiled in almost every recent anime series I have watched, including light novel spoilers in Toaru Majutsu no Index, VN spoilers in Steins;Gate, and manga spoilers in Tokyo Ravens.
Posting spoilers isn't being a dick.

Posting unsolicited spoilers is to many people. Maybe not to me for most series, but a lot of people care, and this is a public forum. Just because you don't care, well that's irrelevant. A discussion is not just about you, thus certain agreements have to be made. I have friends on animesuki that WONT browse a currently airing episode thread because of spoilers so yes I already can see concrete effects of benefit.

Also, I'm exclusively referring to the "READ THE SOURCE" non-arguments you suggested.

Quote:
Comparing Hunter x Hunter to a "mediocre" and "obscure" adaptation of a manga or LN is unfair to begin with. That said, there are a handful of those LN fans who get the axe in their own thread, which is one of my concerns. The already small LN fanbase is being trimmed down due to spoilers.
It's not a comparison. It's simply a observation to counter yours which as previously stated as inaccurate. Now if you're saying that LN threads aren't able to reach the potential of the discussions; we do have a separate LN forum as well as the ability to create additional threads too, as the mods have done in the past.

Quote:
I really don't care about the level of discussion. Sure, I've been in the cesspool called 4chan too, but AnimeSuki is a forum first and foremost, so I don't really care about the level of discussion as long as people don't start calling each other names. That doesn't mean that the READ THE SOURCE card isn't dealt when anime-only fans start complaining.
You may not care about the level of discussion, but clearly others do. And this is what I mean by respecting the rules and concerns of the community. You're just dismissing it which is fine by all means, but it really has no place in this discussion.

Also, a forum is meant for discussion, so yes, the quality of discussion matters and what does being on 4chan mean anyways? That's a different community with different standards. And to say the permutations of standards of every forum community between here and 4chan are nearly infinite. That being said, I wouldn't even consider all of 4chan a cesspool besides a certain area.

I don't know what your point is really. I listed reasons why the things are they way there are and various concerns, and the best you can tell me those concerns don't matter to you, therefore it's invalid. Anyhow, I'm just not that convinced that the current policy throttles discussion beyond FUD.
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Old 2014-06-10, 19:29   Link #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
It may just be me, but I never considered posting spoilers as being a dick.
It's dickish to spoil people who don't want to be spoiled. And if you're putting a spoiler up on a public thread, then you're almost certainly spoiling at least somebody who doesn't want to be spoiled.

They're called "spoilers" for a reason. For many people, knowing information in advance spoils the fun of finding it out organically, through the story itself.


Quote:
But then again, I can forget or don't mind spoilers if I want to, so that's not a problem.
You really can force yourself to forget pieces of information you don't want to remember?

I certainly don't think it works that way for most people. Most spoilers I remember, even when I'd rather forget.


Quote:
Just one question: Do anime-only fans and source fans really need to be that segregated?
They aren't formally segregated. But these two groups are looking for very different things, so it's only natural that there's going to be some level of voluntary division there.

Like it or not, most anime-only fans want to avoid spoilers, generally speaking.

Like it or not, most source fans aren't going to reorient their approach to an anime to be more like how anime-original viewers approach it.

I've been through enough SAOs and Mahoukas and Raildexs to feel pretty confident about those statements above.


Now, thankfully, the two groups may engage with each other more once there's little left to adapt. I've seen this in the Saki fandom, for example. But when there's a big gap between what the anime has covered, and what the source material has covered, there's going to be a bit of a division there. Perhaps unfortunate, but just the way it is.
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Old 2014-06-10, 19:41   Link #195
Marcus H.
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I don't know what your point is really. I listed reasons why the things are they way there are and various concerns, and the best you can tell me those concerns don't matter to you, therefore it's invalid. Anyhow, I'm just not that convinced that the current policy throttles discussion beyond FUD.
Just to clarify, I haven't actively spoiled anyone and haven't been banned for such an offense. I'm not that kind of a dick; hell, I stopped posting in the Mahouka subforum because voicing out my issues in the series (and seeing them fall on deaf ears) is a waste of time, especially for me who can't formulate arguments in a discussion to save my life. And yes, spoilers aren't my real concerns. Instead my concern is that the harsher Spoiler Policy may have contributed to the dwindling energy of discussion in AnimeSuki in general (i.e., people discuss through PMs on spoiler content and users become too cautious to even post). There's simply too few people who go in here than the record-high 2558 back in 2010. Maybe it's just me wanting those who were banned for spoilers to come back and liven up the place once more? Perhaps.

Or it may just simply be the "divide" Triple_R mentioned between those who only watch the anime and those who watch the anime after exposing oneself to the source. Honestly, I simply don't like that situation.
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Old 2014-06-10, 20:34   Link #196
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
There is plenty of spoiler discussion on these forums; in fact we've recently expanded the methods for discussing the source for certain franchises, and the light novel threads are some of the most popular on the site. The spoiler policy does not prohibit the discussion of spoilers at all, only forces them to go in the more appropriate thread (which is the thread for the source or another more-specific thread, if it exists). So if there are really users leaving because they can't show the courtesy of not spoiling/hinting at future events in anime threads and they consider that "too strict"... well, I hope they find some place else that makes them happy, as I guess it won't be here.
Let me resound this sentiment, times infinity. Squared.

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Originally Posted by Marcus H.
On bolded: I don't really mind if there are people who leave on their own. However, those who were banned for spoilers were notable losses to particular discussions.
Afaik people only get banned here if repeated warnings are ignored. And then there are people like me who stay away from a thread because people like this exist in it.

Now, I get how hard it can be to hold back, I've been a source-reader too (and got my share of warnings). But to ignore repeated warnings? I'd say the ban is well deserved.
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Old 2014-06-11, 07:55   Link #197
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Instead my concern is that the harsher Spoiler Policy may have contributed to the dwindling energy of discussion in AnimeSuki in general (i.e., people discuss through PMs on spoiler content and users become too cautious to even post). There's simply too few people who go in here than the record-high 2558 back in 2010.
We already have a thread on the subject of participation rates:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=125011

I'll reiterate what I said there. The spoiler policy probably has a lot less to do with the decline in participation than factors like the overall decline in interest in anime in North America, the rise of other forums, particularly CR, where anime is discussed, and the end of the AS torrent listings.
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Old 2014-06-12, 23:06   Link #198
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Maybe it's just me wanting those who were banned for spoilers to come back and liven up the place once more? Perhaps.
You've brought this up a number of times, but honestly... being permanently banned on this site is not trivial unless a) you're an obvious spammer, or b) you've made a duplicate account. For pretty much everything else, you have to build up a pretty long history of interactions with the staff to finally reach a "permanently banned" stage, and show a pretty clear inability to listen to repeated direction typically from multiple people.

I've seen a number of cases where people finally got permanently banned after many such interactions (sometimes many dozens), and when they explain their "story of what happened" to others, they go "oh I was banned for this one small thing". Of course, they conveniently omit the entire history of interactions that led to that point because they want to frame the whole thing like "The staff are abusing their power! They banned me for some trivial reason and I didn't deserve it!" They think that if you make the whole thing only about this one issue in isolation, it didn't deserve the consequence. But our infraction system is designed to build up over a long time with warnings and infractions that build progressively and many smaller consequences before getting to the end-point.

So I can safely say that no one has been banned from this site for posting spoilers. They got banned because, despite multiple attempts to explain which sort of behaviour is not allowed and how they're expected to behave in accordance with the rules, they didn't listen and kept doing the same (or other similar) inappropriate thing. Even if you change the policy, the fundamental problem of not listening and not being able to remedy problematic behaviour remains the same. To the case in point, I'm not sure who in particular you're referring to when you're talking about people who were banned "for spoilers", but I highly doubt that was actually the reason. It may perhaps have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

That aside, even with the above points about source material readers coming at anime from a totally different point of view than anime-only viewers (which I generally agree with, as someone who has been in both camps), I also can't view source readers as scorpions who can't help but sting the frog/turtle that's carrying them across the river, dooming both. If you see anime-only viewers and are like I MUST NOT ALLOW THEIR MISCONCEPTIONS TO STAND; THEY MUST KNOW THESE FUTURE EVENTS SO THEY'LL APPRECIATE THE WORK LIKE ME NOW, then sorry, but this site's anime threads may be a bad environment for you to discuss in due to that compulsion. All we ask is that people discuss it in the source thread instead (or a more appropriate thread if one exists). I honestly don't think it's that burdensome (and again, this is speaking as someone who has been in both camps personally).

I'll also say that some of the sections that may be "lacking in life" may also be due to natural interests and trends shifting, as these things are all cyclical.
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Old 2014-06-12, 23:20   Link #199
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Just to clarify, I haven't actively spoiled anyone and haven't been banned for such an offense. I'm not that kind of a dick; hell, I stopped posting in the Mahouka subforum because voicing out my issues in the series (and seeing them fall on deaf ears) is a waste of time, especially for me who can't formulate arguments in a discussion to save my life. And yes, spoilers aren't my real concerns. Instead my concern is that the harsher Spoiler Policy may have contributed to the dwindling energy of discussion in AnimeSuki in general (i.e., people discuss through PMs on spoiler content and users become too cautious to even post). There's simply too few people who go in here than the record-high 2558 back in 2010. Maybe it's just me wanting those who were banned for spoilers to come back and liven up the place once more? Perhaps.
I never accused you of doing any of that. There's no need to defend yourself against scenarios that you brought up.

As for the rest, well, there's a sluggish economy, as well as a number of other issues such as industry shifts and stuff.

The rest is a l2p issue, sorry.
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Old 2014-06-13, 02:24   Link #200
Marcus H.
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No offense taken, Archon_Wing. I just want to clarify an issue that I have seen in the forums.
Well, since the issue may have arose from a different cause like SeijiSensei has mentioned or a mix of different things, I guess I was probably just too anxious.
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