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Old 2013-12-19, 23:34   Link #761
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Ahe only did it for revenge, by her own admission. Though this clearly contradicts her actions since the beginning of the story, as she's always been helping everyone out simply because she's a nice person.
That depends on what she thinks a hero is. Perhaps, in her mind, a hero is someone who fights for the sake of duty alone, because it's the right thing to do, not because of personal reasons.

Quote:
Anyhow, I know she won't stop helping out and fighting bad guys because she no longer calls herself "The Hero," but I'm hoping she doesn't drop the title, but realises instead she's been one ever since she took the sword - despite her desire for revenge or even if the Church was full of shit.
Is the title of 'Hero' really that important? As long as she does what she wants and is happy with, isn't that what is really important, not what she calls herself.

I think, in the end, it's the people around her that will let her know she's a hero. Even if she can't be everyone's hero, she'll still be their hero, and that's what most important for her.
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Old 2013-12-19, 23:40   Link #762
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Because there's a character playing the role of "The Hero" in this story and she just questioned if she really was one in the latest volume?
It seems a fairly normal discussion to have after that.


Ahe only did it for revenge, by her own admission. Though this clearly contradicts her actions since the beginning of the story, as she's always been helping everyone out simply because she's a nice person.

Anyhow, I know she won't stop helping out and fighting bad guys because she no longer calls herself "The Hero," but I'm hoping she doesn't drop the title, but realises instead she's been one ever since she took the sword - despite her desire for revenge or even if the Church was full of shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
That depends on what she thinks a hero is. Perhaps, in her mind, a hero is someone who fights for the sake of duty alone, because it's the right thing to do, not because of personal reasons.



Is the title of 'Hero' really that important? As long as she does what she wants and is happy with, isn't that what is really important, not what she calls herself.

I think, in the end, it's the people around her that will let her know she's a hero. Even if she can't be everyone's hero, she'll still be their hero, and that's what most important for her.
The term of Hero has no exact definition, it is a term where you, yourself, have to define it. There is a basic outline or a loose definition, but there is no exact definition. There is the difference of society, culture, religion, and such to take account in when it comes to the term Hero as many civilizations have a Hero who are similar to one another in some ways and other ways they are different.

This discussion will never end is what I am stating. No matter how much one discusses it, there will be no answer at the end that was satisfy everyone's tastes.

Lets find something more meaningful to discuss. The labels on these characters do not mean much in my opinion. They all have already violated many of their stereotype characteristics of their labels.
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Old 2013-12-19, 23:45   Link #763
Alf
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Just finished reading vol.10

There could be many different stance for heroism, and what it's like to be an average person. But in the context of Hataraku Maou-sama, the whole point the setting is to decrease the sterotypical hero and villian into average people, show the downfall of both if you consider them seriously. Gag wise you get the demon king crawling for money and the hero becoming the average OL. In terms of drama both image will crumble for certain, but in order to regain their identity they need to review their role and change their ways to regain an identity. That's a common way of making dramas.

Actually the very same drama is being completed with Suzuno, so I'm pretty sure the entire thing will happen to Maou and Emi as well.

In vol.9 and 10 Emi finally get her past intentions to fight totally crumbled. With the flaws of her hero image and personal love and hatred being shown, she is bound to the conflict of self and identity. By the very same drama mechanism, I think she will eventually regain her identity as a hero in a different way. It's also hinted in vol.10.
Spoiler for hints in vol.10:

Emi never lose her special position as Maou's "rival" even with them getting closer. And you know, husband and wife can also be "rival" in many cases. So I'm not quite worried about Emi becoming a lame haremette.
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Old 2013-12-20, 00:59   Link #764
shmaster
あらゆるものは意味を持たない
 
 
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If Emi wants to make a come back, she has to find a drive and a cause like Bell did.
Their situation were pretty similar, or should I say that Emi is now facing the same problem that Bell faced when Bell was first introduced.
A lack of cause and belief despite the abundance of power they had in hand.

Though, I really don't want to see Emi making a come back the way Bell did. It'll just be really redundant in terms of writing.

Last edited by shmaster; 2013-12-20 at 03:04.
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Old 2013-12-20, 01:12   Link #765
Shadow5YA
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I couldn't care less if Emi is out for blood and embraces that as her motivation instead. I just want her to make some comeback. It feels like she has fallen farther than Bell has, both in character and in competency.
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Old 2013-12-20, 11:37   Link #766
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
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For me, Emi is the most important character in the entire story. Yes, even more important than Maou, in fact - this story is primarily not about him, but about HER.

Thing is: She is the one who has to struggle and to CHANGE the most. She started out as simpleton black-and-white hero - capable, but easily (ab)used. And to be truthful: She HAD all reason to hate Maou - he was responsible for killing her father.

Nevertheless, she soon realized that there was a little more to him than she had initially thought, and she was able to REFLECT on it. Not to easily flip-flop, but to confront her doubts, grapple with them, and gradually adjust. Bit by bit. Realizing that she had been played for a fool again and again, and learning from it. Passing on her insights to Cristia Bell. Essentially realizing that (with the exception of Rika) she was alone, had been alone, and need to find the way on her own.

She has her share of shortcomings and flaws, but the's got the heart on the right spot. And fate deals her a horrible hand again and again.

Compare that to Maou, who essentially remains unchanged. He has his share of devoted (and less-than devoted) followers, and he is walking his path straight along. Since he doesn't harbor the same deep grudge that Emi did, his adjustments towards her were much more minute in comparison. Fairly little true _development_ from him here.

So, I'm definitely following this show for Emi. Not for anyone else. And so, I can appreciate that the author doesn't turn her into a Mary Sue, but rather the opposite. A girl who tries her best to do the right thing under adverse circumstances. Would I like for her to have 1-2 more scenes in the sun, where she can victoriously strut her stuff and ride to the rescue? Yes, I would. But this is something I don't hold against her.
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Old 2013-12-21, 15:28   Link #767
Used Can
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My issue with Emi is not with the character herself. Though I agree with Mentar in that I prefer a flawed character that can be expanded on, as opposed to an already perfect and static Mary Sue, I'd prefer if the author gave Emi some good moments, as opposed to making her too much of a gag character.

I mean, Maou is a funny guy and gets tons of comedic scenes, but that doesn't prevent him from getting shit done. And although I also agree his character has been mostly static in some ways (not entirely so since Alas Ramus did bring some changes in his character), at least his role gets some respect.
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Old 2013-12-21, 15:32   Link #768
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
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In this case, I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. Emi deserves a few more good scenes for herself. Though it's true that it's usually her failures and shortcomings which bring out her most endearing sides

So there, Mr. Author. You want to balance things some more. Stop being such a chauvinist!
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Old 2013-12-21, 17:21   Link #769
Eternal Regnum771
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Suzu is my most favorite, but Emi is close behind her, and then comes Emerada. Even though Suzu is top for me, I am actually happy for the inevitable Emi x Maou.

Among the heroines, Emi's character does more or less have the most development (I find Suzu to be the most interesting though). Besides that, I can see her arguably being the most endearing heroine because her initial hate and tsundere personality towards Maou comes off feeling pure and understandable, and in addition, despite being strong-willed, to the point that doesn't allow weakness, she can be very delicate and be at fault. Then there's also the fact she's badass when it counts, which kinda makes one forget that her weak/cute moments and recalls her being a strong, determined, and reliable YUUSHA (not eiyuu).

At one point though, I was for Suzu x Maou, but later found myself wanting for Suzu x Lucifer since they're simply way too adorable and perfect for each other, as loli-esque and shota-esque. ^ Emerada is downright awesome, and with strong moe. Call it sacrilegious, but I can't help myself in wanting Emerada x Ashiya!
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Old 2013-12-21, 23:39   Link #770
coded321
He Who Games
 
 
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I have a question which involves the spoilers of volume 10.
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Old 2013-12-21, 23:45   Link #771
coded321
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question about spoilers for volume 10

Spoiler for question about spoilers from volume 10:
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Old 2014-01-05, 14:58   Link #772
uranx
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its already 2014
have you guys heard any news about season 2?
not to mention theres already 10 light novels out already
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Old 2014-01-17, 01:09   Link #773
ZodiacBeast
Dreaming Butterfly
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Any news lately?
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Old 2014-01-24, 10:29   Link #774
Harlequinx
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Emi defeats Maou at one stage right? Can anyone tell me how? Also, by reading all the spoilers its safe to say that Emi and Maou havent confessed to each other. Hurry up and confess dammit >.<
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Old 2014-01-26, 17:16   Link #775
Nevermorexo
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OK, so I’ve watched Hataraku Maou-Sama! a few months ago, and ever since I’ve been obsessed with it. I’ve read the majority of this thread, the translated LN’s and the mangas, etc. But I felt like I had to just partake in this great discussion here, so here’s my two cents:

Used Can, I do agree with you in that I hope they don’t throw Emilia’s character off the face of the Earth. In truth, she’s my favorite character throughout the whole show. But at the same time, the others have made great points, too. Mentar made an amazing one where they said that Emilia is the one character who has to undergo the most development, and I whole-heartedly agree with that statement.

In regards to Emilia, she was swallowed up in a false sense of justice, and would have done anything to kill Maou on the spot. We often see her being the one dealing with internal struggles, because every-time she sees Maou do something kind for humans, she questions it and can't comprehend it which brings her to the boiling point of frustration/emotion (especially when she lashes out at him and reveals the story of her father, further displaying her downright confusion). His kindness is earth-shattering to her, because she’d grown up learning to hate him, building up an image of her own around him filled with nothing but ill-feelings. Not to mention he had been pegged for killing her father and burning down their town, so naturally, she grew to hate him (which is why I think her somewhat “tsundere” personality is both refreshing and justified.)

Although, at heart, Emilia shows extraordinary personality traits that display sheer heroism, in my opinion. She has learned to accept her sworn enemy for several years, and has consistently made attempts throughout the series to understand him. Not to mention, she has done nothing but want to give him an “honorable” death (i.e, preventing him to die at the hands of others/in a pathetic state caused by natural disasters, etc).

So, even though she has realized that the motive for her actions was relatively selfish in the fact that she was doing it to get revenge for her father, I still think she displays heroic qualities at heart, and I also find this self-realization of hers to be EXTREMELY important. If you can’t recognize a problem, it’s very hard to fix it – and I think this recognition process could lead her character into some serious strength. However, it could end in two ways:

- The disappointing way where she’d give up her title and status and be clumped into the group as a gag character.

- OR, the more exciting way, in my opinion, where she overcomes this acceptance that she, as she was, fighting for nothing but revenge, wasn’t fit to be a hero, BUT then learns what it means to actually be a hero, and with motivation/willpower by her new-found friend’s actions or just born from her character itself, transforms herself into the true Hero she is at heart.

If she can do this, I think Emilia is actually an incredibly heroic character; she is damn strong, that’s for sure – having overcome the possible reality that everything she’d fought for was a lie, and have also realizing her own faults before it is too late, demonstrates that she is flawed and vulnerable like the rest of us but has the determination to overcome the tragedies in her life, and that shows strength.

Imo, I think it will go in the direction of the latter. Emilia isn’t just some random, either. She’s the daughter of both human and an Angel, which, in itself, is already a rarity and has been held to some importance on its own since the start of the series. Not to mention, Maou has held her in some sort of higher respect considering he has seen her strength first hand after she drove him out of Ente Isla, and has also since acknowledged her strength subtly throughout the series (or maybe not so subtly!)

And that’s just my terribly long take on this, hahah. Hoping for the best anyways, and hoping for a season 2. ;_____;
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Old 2014-01-26, 19:22   Link #776
Tenzen12
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Honestly I don't see why anyone should care whether Emi has tittle of hero or not. When she encounter evil she will fight it, if someone is ín danger she will help. Even when she fought Mao for ravange, these things still was integral part of her personality.

She always was hero and always will, regardless whether she herself or anyoe else think about her that way. If she loose that label for good it doesn't metter at all.
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Old 2014-01-28, 01:44   Link #777
Nulo
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Have any of you guys read Hatarku Maousama Hihschool, I found some raws but I dont understand them ; I only understand some Japanese but I can't read it
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Old 2014-01-28, 04:54   Link #778
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
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Well... I don't think that it's the "label" or "title" which Used Can was referring to (please correct me if I'm wrong, UC). His main point - which I am fully in agreement with, by the way - was that it would be nice if the author allowed Emi to _be_ heroic for a change. To make a real difference. To save people or to defeat villains. Throughout the story, she is supposed to be the one who is always able to defeat Maou via "Better Half". Instead, she is consistently displayed as more or less helpless damsel in distress - at least in the anime.

In the first arc, she needed Alsiel's help against Lucifer, before he was defeated by Maou. In the second arc, Sariel was able to render her completely ineffective till the very end. Come on, author. She has enough to overcome. Give her some proper scenes to show her stuff. She deserves some time in the sun, too. Stop being so macho

In my eyes, Emi _is_ 75% of the long-range potential of HMS. She is the one I'm following the show for.
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Old 2014-02-09, 18:29   Link #779
SigUp
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Is there any news concerning a possibility for a sequel? I thought the anime was done quite nicely. Concerning Emi, I agree that she is the key to this series. I like her very much and think she should get some awesome moments. After all she's the main reason why Maou despite all his powers had to retreat. That said, her weakness against Lucifer / Orba and Sariel is kind of plausible. But not having read the LN it's of course hard to judge the later developments.
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Old 2014-02-09, 23:54   Link #780
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Well... I don't think that it's the "label" or "title" which Used Can was referring to (please correct me if I'm wrong, UC). His main point - which I am fully in agreement with, by the way - was that it would be nice if the author allowed Emi to _be_ heroic for a change.
That was my point, indeed.
Emilia is the deuteragonist of the story (i.e. the other protagonist). So, you'd expect her to have her own development, that is independent to Maou, in addition for her to have her own moments to shine and save the day.
Instead, nearly every single time she's tried to do something, she fails, ends up helpless and in need of being saved by Maou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
she is supposed to be the one who is always able to defeat Maou via "Better Half".
Well, I don't think they were supposed to fight again after they ended up on Earth. So, I don't think she's supposed to always defeat him throughout the story, if anything, much of their story is supposed to come down to them understanding each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
In the first arc, she needed Alsiel's help against Lucifer, before he was defeated by Maou. In the second arc, Sariel was able to render her completely ineffective till the very end. Come on, author. She has enough to overcome. Give her some proper scenes to show her stuff. She deserves some time in the sun, too. Stop being so macho
I understand her lacking power at the beginning, since as established by the story, the Earth is lacking in prana, so the use of magic is really limited. Furthermore, as established by the author in his Twitter, the type of energy Emilia uses (positive energy) is much harder to gather on Earth as opposed to negative energy (which Maou and the other demons use), since it's easier to make large amounts of people extremely miserable and unhappy than make tons of people extremely happy.

However, by now you'd have expected her (or some of her comrades) to have found a way for her to gather energy more efficiently and faster on Earth. Yet, even that vitamin she drinks is rather useless. Hell, even when she was at Ente Isla (where she should be able to go at full power), she ended up played by Orba, because she's too nice to a fault.

Another thing I didn't like was that scene in the latest volume in which, in order to protect her father, she let tons of people die. Mind you, I understand that type of behaviour was extremely humane, and plenty of people would have done the same. Furthermore, it shows something that should have been obvious since long ago, and that is that her true wish back in the day was to have her family reunited, not to become some paladin of justice. However, despite that, I cannot deny that scene left a really bad after-taste. I mean, even though she was just protecting her father, she still let a good amount of people die. That doesn't look good, no matter how you want to see it. Moreover, by this point you'd expected her to be able to shine somehow, and perform her duty as the hero. So, anyone would have expected her to be able to save the day somehow (i.e. save her father and stop the conflict), or at least have that clichéd (though fitting in this case) scene in which her father asked her to leave him and stop the conflict to prevent the death of thousands, having her not wanting to accept at first, but ultimately accepting her father's wish and performing her duty as the hero, this event marking a turning/defining point for her character in the process.
But that didn't happen, and not only did she let things run their course in order to protect her father (which, again, I agree to be understandable, very human and consistent with what she wanted when she was a child), but then, as if that wasn't enough, when they returned to Earth, she lost her job and now she'll be working at MgRonald (more funny harem hijinks at work yay! ... not).

Anyhow, I'm not even complaining about chauvinism on the author's part (if anyone really wants to complain about chauvinism, perhaps they should start considering they're watching the wrong type of media), but about a serious case of wasted potential on a character, and as a result on the story as well.
Do not misunderstand, though, I love Maou, he's super cool and I love him so, but I'd also like to see Emilia get shit done and look good every now and then.
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