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Old 2014-01-02, 22:32   Link #41
Whitemoon648
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Sabo is a revolutionary and Sabo is Kaido. Two theories that i have had for a very long time. When every one was saying Sabo was dead, i was in the minority in arguing that Sabo isn't dead. and thus far i am sticking with both theories until proven wrong.

We know Sabo was talking with a revolutionary person on phone but we don't know if Sabo himself is a revolutionary. You can speculate he is, but it isn't confirmed.
Also remember Sabo was unwilling to be part of any one's crew (including both Luffy and ace). He wanted to be free and do what ever he wanted ( same as the other 2 brothers).

Let's not forget i still believe in a possibility that Sabo is working under dragon but i am open to other theories/possibilities as well.

Sabo could be Kaidou and an ally of the revolutionaries. Sabo could be a pirate caption and ally of revolutionary and ... .

Lastly, i want to say this, just because a theory might not ( or might be the case) that doesn't make a theory good or bad theory. This line of thinking is a form of logical fallacy.
----

More about this chapter. I see two likely possibilities of the unknown person,
1) Meadows, who could be that Jack, Kaidou or Kaidou/other yonkou related.
2) Rebecca. Why her? well because the panel with toy soldier seemed to be leading to that.
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Old 2014-01-03, 03:17   Link #42
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Sabo isn't Kaido because Oda isn't a turd who grew a set of hands and writing aspirations
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Old 2014-01-03, 06:35   Link #43
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I just don't think the title of "King of Beasts" fits Sabo's character portrayal. When I think of Kaidou, I associate him with ferocity, raw, destructive power, unparalleled stamina and durability. When I think of the little boy who allegedly died all those years ago and try to imagine him as a young adult, I'm much more thinking cunning, dexterity and eloquence. Now I don't think it would have been impossible for this little boy to grow into something completely inexpected, but since it is already hinted heavily, that Sabo is the aristocratic looking guy from chapter 732, I don't think that theory is likely to be true anymore.
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Old 2014-01-03, 09:22   Link #44
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I think whitemoon has confused the word theory with hypothesis
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Old 2014-01-03, 13:45   Link #45
Trax
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There were actual hints for Sabo being still alive, while there is absolutely nothing that indicates that he would be Kaido. This theory never made sense imo, and it makes even less sense now that he's shown to be a revolutionary.
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Old 2014-01-03, 15:17   Link #46
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Lol there was such a theory ... kinda the most ridiculous thought on sabo i've heard yet -_-
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Old 2014-01-04, 00:08   Link #47
Whitemoon648
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Before i get into replying other posts,

I thought about another possibility regarding the unknown person.

Again think Meadows and check out his hat. Now replace that hat with a dog Hat.

What if Garp thought by changing his hat to a tiger hat ( which looks very similar to his dog hat) he could conceal his identity then couldn't that be him?

How did it happen, Well he used conqueror's haki just before ( maybe rebecca was about to lose/die / maaaybe ) and made every one to fall down. It could be possible if it was Garp. Luffy did it against many high level marines at marineford so it would make sense for garp to be able to do it against higher lvl fighters.

THEN, he fell sleep as he always does lol . and the person that was waking up was garp himself.

Why would he be there? He wanted to meet his grandson LUFFY and say hi and maybe retrieved Ace's devil fruit. After all Garp did love ace as well.

What you guys think?

P.S. Oh boy, i am gonna get a lot of heat from this but doesn't meadows also look like Gold D Roger?







Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGoten View Post
I just don't think the title of "King of Beasts" fits Sabo's character portrayal. When I think of Kaidou, I associate him with ferocity, raw, destructive power, unparalleled stamina and durability. When I think of the little boy who allegedly died all those years ago and try to imagine him as a young adult, I'm much more thinking cunning, dexterity and eloquence. Now I don't think it would have been impossible for this little boy to grow into something completely inexpected, but since it is already hinted heavily, that Sabo is the aristocratic looking guy from chapter 732, I don't think that theory is likely to be true anymore.
I know where you coming from. But what you just explained happening is nothing new to anime/manga world. It happens all the time. and yes i know you said it isn't impossible . I am just saying in general it can happen.

As for the guy in 732, yes i agree it's sabo. I mean this guy ( in chapter 732) could be sabo and Kaido. A yonko could very well be working with revolutionaries or at least have some favorable ties with them. Looking at Yonkos as Mid bosses ( not affiliated to any faction) , imo is restricting ourselves as to what might be possible.

Example of such (similar relationships) are Kuma (w/both revs and marines), Doflamingo himself ( kaido and marines), Snake hime ( Luffy and marines), ... .

I do believe chances of Sabo being kaido is becoming less likely but i mean it is still a possibility ( and i don't mean like 1 percent possibility, i mean something like 40 60 ).

P.S. I really like how your post was very respectful and actually had very good points. I can only hope more posts to be like yours. Cheers .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
I think whitemoon has confused the word theory with hypothesis
Theory: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another.

I am pretty sure i haven't confused it for hypothesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trax View Post
There were actual hints for Sabo being still alive, while there is absolutely nothing that indicates that he would be Kaido. This theory never made sense imo, and it makes even less sense now that he's shown to be a revolutionary.
Majority of the people denied hints of sabo being alive up until their denial was proved to be wrong in 732.

It's almost the same thing about Kaido. Of course the hints about Sabo being a live was much more apparent and Sabo-kaido theory , you could say the hints are based on speculaitons and more subtle.

Hints:
-Kaido is the only other actor that tries to to go to marineford.
and saying well, the marines said Kaido was after whitebeard's life is the same form of arguments as how people argued that , in green data books Sabo was deemed dead.

-Kaido defeated Moriah around the same time as sabo incident. I won't go into the time line debate here, because we already did it in previous chapters and we concluded there could have been a few months gap between Sabo's accident and Moriah's defeat in the favor of the theory.
and the power level upgrades and match ups in one piece are kinda arbitrary in many instances. So really no point arguing about how sabo could have defeated Moriah. If Oda is the writer, then it is possible.

Just two of many (subtle hints).

Any ways feel free to disagree .
P.S. I am not saying it should be that way or it is this way, all i am saying it is a valid theory by definition at the very least.
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Old 2014-01-04, 03:55   Link #48
Veviticus
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Theory: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another.

I am pretty sure i haven't confused it for hypothesis.

I believe you have. See below

Hints:
-Kaido is the only other actor that tries to to go to marineford.
and saying well, the marines said Kaido was after whitebeard's life is the same form of arguments as how people argued that , in green data books Sabo was deemed dead.

Not a fact relating to sabo. It's only a hypothesis. Much like saying that the other 1415123 pirates there might have been sabo because they were trying to save ace.

-Kaido defeated Moriah around the same time as sabo incident. I won't go into the time line debate here, because we already did it in previous chapters and we concluded there could have been a few months gap between Sabo's accident and Moriah's defeat in the favor of the theory.
and the power level upgrades and match ups in one piece are kinda arbitrary in many instances. So really no point arguing about how sabo could have defeated Moriah. If Oda is the writer, then it is possible.

Another hypothesis. The fact is that sabo was severely injured and taken in by dragon. For him to recover, and go after moria and defeat him and his entire crew is very improbable. It's because this is Oda that it's not possible. Maybe if it was kishimoto masashi, then you might have a valid point.

Just two of many (subtle hints).

May I please have more? Thanks
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Old 2014-01-04, 04:30   Link #49
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
Theory: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another.



Not a fact relating to sabo. It's only a hypothesis. Much like saying that the other 1415123 pirates there might have been sabo because they were trying to save ace.[/B]


Another hypothesis. The fact is that sabo was severely injured and taken in by dragon. For him to recover, and go after moria and defeat him and his entire crew is very improbable. It's because this is Oda that it's not possible. Maybe if it was kishimoto masashi, then you might have a valid point.

.

May I please have more? Thanks
Theory: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another. .

Fact 1: Kaido goes after whitebeard.
Fact 2: Sabo is alive.

question: why Sabo didn't go help rescue ace?
analysis of fact 1 and 2: He might have if he was Kaido.

--

Now a hypothesis: Something taken to be true for the purpose of argument or investigation; an assumption.

question: why Sabo didn't go help rescue ace?

Hypothesis 1 : Because the mission he had to do ( based on dragon's orders) was more important.
fact for hypo 1: None.

--

Hypothesis or theory? : Because he was so far away he couldn't get there in time.

I say more in line of theory ( thougt can be argued it is a hypothesis as well).

Fact 1: Sabo is alive.
Fact 2: if you are far away you can't get there in time ( based on Luffy's dilemma on how to get there in time)

Analysis: maybe Sabo had the same issue.
--
Can you see the difference?


Quote:
Originally Posted by veviticus
[B]Another hypothesis. The fact is that sabo was severely injured and taken in by dragon. For him to recover, and go after moria and defeat him and his entire crew is very improbable. It's because this is Oda that it's not possible. Maybe if it was kishimoto masashi, then you might have a valid point.
Also Oda does write like that ( from time to time).
Example:

Luffy gets beaten up.
Luffy eats meat.
Luffy beats a warlord the next day.

How many times has this happend thus far in one piece ?

Want more example ?

Enel electrocuted almost the whole Strawhats and others. No one died. Are we really talking about improbable?

7 years old kids fighting against big ass bears 50 times their size and even few years before that being thrown out inside a jungle alone to fend for themselves ( Garps training Luffy). Is that improbable?

Did you see how much fatal attacks whiteboard had to take before going down?

Also since you follow manga as well, what do you think will happen to Law? is he dead?

There are countless more examples. The point is, yes it's possible. It wouldn't be much different from what has been the case thus far.


One piece is great. Imo it is better than both naurto and Bleach. but like seriously, oda does write like that.
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Old 2014-01-04, 05:44   Link #50
Veviticus
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There's no relation between sabo being alive and kaido going after whitebeard. But we can link sabo being part of the revolutionary army because 1) he was picked up by dragon and 2) he was talking to a revolutionary member. Therefore we can theorize that sabo being unable to help ace because he was with the revolutionary army.

I would like something more that hints sabo to being kaido. I'm really trying to see how sabo could be kaido, but I honestly can't with what you've given me


-

So oda's characters have a lot of strength and refuses to die. But what you're suggesting does not match the timeline of events that have occurred to sabo, as well as the difference in personalities and looks between sabo and kaido. Do you really believe that sabo was capable of killing off moria's entire crew?
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Old 2014-01-04, 06:11   Link #51
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post

-

So oda's characters have a lot of strength and refuses to die. But what you're suggesting does not match the timeline of events that have occurred to sabo, as well as the difference in personalities and looks between sabo and kaido. Do you really believe that sabo was capable of killing off moria's entire crew?
- then oda's character could have the strength to do the impossible because they have the strength and resolve to win?

- Timeline can match. I won't go in details ( it has been done before in previous threads), but yes it is only a few months gap.

- We don't know the details surrounding what actually happened, or if kaido really did kill his crew or how they died.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
we can link sabo being part of the revolutionary army because 1) he was picked up by dragon and 2) he was talking to a revolutionary member. Therefore we can theorize that sabo being unable to help ace because he was with the revolutionary army.
Well being picked up by dragon and talking to that rev girl are two facts that support him being a revolutionary. which i am fine with. That is/was/has always been one of my theories as well ( even when majority didn't agree).

All i am saying is that possibility of Sabo being Kaido path is also an open route to take.

The two facts you mentioned supports sabo being a rev theory not the reason why he couldn't help. The reason you mentioned (imo) is a hypothesis rather than theory.

I explained to you why in an earlier post ( we can agree to disagree on this of course).
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Old 2014-01-04, 11:39   Link #52
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I'm not sure I understand the "debate" currently going on. We've seen Kaido's "shadowy figure" on several occasions, and it doesn't match any image we currently have of Sabo or images we think are most probably Sabo. So, the two characters being connected beyond extraordinarily weak leaps in logic is somewhat silly or at least completely unnecessary.

Personally, I also do not care since I already hate the character of Sabo and find any reappearance from him no matter the circumstances to be tiring and boring to begin with...

That being said, how about Scopper Gaban being Kaido. Once a member of Roger's crew, Gaban disappeared after Roger's death, and since we've seen Buggy and Shanks rise to prominence, why not another one of Roger's nakama? Additionally, Gaban has a similar mouth shape to Kaido's shadow, even if the hair and general body shape do not seem to match.

Whatever the case, maybe this general calamity should be moved to the Yonkou thread or just dropped. I don't mind pointless discussion during off-weeks, but continued pointless discussion can get trying very quickly.
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Old 2014-01-04, 16:08   Link #53
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Wasn't Kaido an emperor for a Long time ?He even fought Moriah before he became a Shichibukai.So unless Sabo has eaten a broken-ass auto-win fruit at the very start of his journey that let him become an emperor right away,I don't see how that's possible.

And like James pointed out,Kaido's shadow figure looks like that of a man in his 40s.
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Old 2014-01-05, 01:49   Link #54
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Wasn't Kaido an emperor for a Long time ?He even fought Moriah before he became a Shichibukai.So unless Sabo has eaten a broken-ass auto-win fruit at the very start of his journey that let him become an emperor right away,I don't see how that's possible.

And like James pointed out,Kaido's shadow figure looks like that of a man in his 40s.
He became Kaido after the fight from what i remember actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm not sure I understand the "debate" currently going on. We've seen Kaido's "shadowy figure" on several occasions, and it doesn't match any image we currently have of Sabo or images we think are most probably Sabo. So, the two characters being connected beyond extraordinarily weak leaps in logic is somewhat silly or at least completely unnecessary.

Personally, I also do not care since I already hate the character of Sabo and find any reappearance from him no matter the circumstances to be tiring and boring to begin with...

That being said, how about Scopper Gaban being Kaido. Once a member of Roger's crew, Gaban disappeared after Roger's death, and since we've seen Buggy and Shanks rise to prominence, why not another one of Roger's nakama? Additionally, Gaban has a similar mouth shape to Kaido's shadow, even if the hair and general body shape do not seem to match.


Whatever the case, maybe this general calamity should be moved to the Yonkou thread or just dropped. I don't mind pointless discussion during off-weeks, but continued pointless discussion can get trying very quickly.
- Shadowy figure shown isn't proof enough. He doesn't "have to" look like the figure. For example the real Mom yonko looks different than her former shadowy figure pic. Plus have we seen what Sabo looks like?

- I like your second theory about Scopper Gaban. I think very possible as well that he might be a Former Roger pirate.


P.S. What you guys think of Meadows being garp in disguise?
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Old 2014-01-05, 05:21   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
P.S. What you guys think of Meadows being garp in disguise?
The mouth and mustache don't match at all, so no I don't see it.
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Old 2014-01-05, 09:36   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
He became Kaido after the fight from what i remember actually.
With all the underground deals surrounding Kaido,do you honestly believe it has something to do with Sabo ?

Just a reminder :

"At some point in the last four years, he collaborated with the Shichibukai Donquixote Doflamingo and rogue Marine scientist Caesar Clown to create an army of artificial Zoan Devil Fruit users."

Kaido's Birthday : May 1st
Sabo's Birthday : March 20th

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Plus have we seen what Sabo looks like?
We actually have,on the cover page of chapter 596.
[cut]

Last edited by james0246; 2014-01-05 at 11:28.
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Old 2014-01-05, 16:26   Link #57
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Lol basically the theory on Sabo being Kaido is based off nothing but a .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000001% possibility of pure stupidity
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Old 2014-01-05, 18:14   Link #58
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For the "Sabo = Kaido - theory" you need to explain why he is supposedly Kaido and not any other character? The examples you listed are not conclusive for him being Sabo. All of them can be used AGAINST that theory as well, so I don't see how you want to establish your theory without having even 1 valid, undeniable argument. Right now it is a forced assumption. Reminds me of all those theories regarding "Aerith" from FF7.
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Old 2014-01-05, 18:51   Link #59
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
With all the underground deals surrounding Kaido,do you honestly believe it has something to do with Sabo ?

Just a reminder :

"At some point in the last four years, he collaborated with the Shichibukai Donquixote Doflamingo and rogue Marine scientist Caesar Clown to create an army of artificial Zoan Devil Fruit users."

Kaido's Birthday : May 1st
Sabo's Birthday : March 20th



We actually have,on the cover page of chapter 596.
[cut]
well databooks said sabo was dead. Was he?

And guess where the birthdays dates come from.

Also where does it say he collaborated with Caesar? His relationship with DD is buying the fruits from him. And if he can't supply, then DD will be destroyed * .
How is that a "Collaboration" ?

It is similar to big mom's relationship with the Fishmen Island.

By this reasoning then Fishmen people are bad too?

Let's not forget about Aokiji. He is working underground and with blackbeard. Even smoker is/was doubting hi. What a bad evil person he must have become right?
Of course you will disagree with me that Aokiji is probably doing this for a reason and he means well. Why would you say that? Because Oda has introduced his character as a good one. We know more info about him.

But we don't know the same about Kaido. Even if he isn't Sabo, he could still be a great yonko like whitebeard.

Another example would be Robin. If you check the opinion of the people about robin when she killed VV's bodygaurd to when she became a popular strawhat, you will see how we can't judge Kaido just based on rumors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
For the "Sabo = Kaido - theory" you need to explain why he is supposedly Kaido and not any other character? The examples you listed are not conclusive for him being Sabo. All of them can be used AGAINST that theory as well, so I don't see how you want to establish your theory without having even 1 valid, undeniable argument. Right now it is a forced assumption. Reminds me of all those theories regarding "Aerith" from FF7.
- not really. You are confusing a theory with a fact. If i was saying Sabo is Kaido beyond doubt, then yes i would need to do what you said. I don't have to destroy all other possible outcomes for who sabo could be. I am not saying Sabo is kaido beyond doubt. I am saying Sabo could be Kaido. Kaido could be any other persons. I have more than one theory about who Kaido could be and i have supported other people's theory of who Kaido could be as well.

- You say undeniable argument. If an argument can't be denied, then it's a fact. Also you are confusing a valid argument and undeniable one. A a valid argument just needs to have it's conclusion follow from it's premise.
Example for you:
All birds can fly. Penguin is a bird. Thus Penguins can fly. <--- This is called a valid argument. You can of course deny it's factual essence but you can't say this argument isn't valid.
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Old 2014-01-05, 19:43   Link #60
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Sabo is Big Mom.
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