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Old 2014-01-05, 19:48   Link #61
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
Sabo is Big Mom.
LOL. Yup, Sabo is Big Mom when Ivankov changes his gender. It makes sense after all, since they're both revolutionaries and have most likely made contact on quite a few occasions.
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Old 2014-01-05, 19:57   Link #62
GreyZone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
[...]
- not really. You are confusing a theory with a fact. If i was saying Sabo is Kaido beyond doubt, then yes i would need to do what you said. I don't have to destroy all other possible outcomes for who sabo could be. I am not saying Sabo is kaido beyond doubt. I am saying Sabo could be Kaido. Kaido could be any other persons. I have more than one theory about who Kaido could be and i have supported other people's theory of who Kaido could be as well.
I don't want to argue about semantics, so I won't go further into the whole "theory or hypothesis" discussion. You are using a devils proof argument in the end, i.e. you say "You cannot proof that Sabo is not Kaido". I accept that you think that. We have the freedom of opinion after all. You have to understand that others have other views and do not accept ideas, because there is not enough evidence. As I already said, there is no real evidence for your opinion, so you should have expected scepticism from others, escpacially if you do not categorize what you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
- You say undeniable argument. If an argument can't be denied, then it's a fact. Also you are confusing a valid argument and undeniable one. A a valid argument just needs to have it's conclusion follow from it's premise.
Example for you:
All birds can fly. Penguin is a bird. Thus Penguins can fly. <--- This is called a valid argument. You can of course deny it's factual essence but you can't say this argument isn't valid.
That is not what I mean. I ment the arguments' existence themselves and not their "worth".

You thought I was talking about arguments that give undeniable proofs, but I was talking about arguments that only imply or indicate something, but cannot be denied.
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Old 2014-01-05, 21:12   Link #63
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
I don't want to argue about semantics, so I won't go further into the whole "theory or hypothesis" discussion. You are using a devils proof argument in the end, i.e. you say "You cannot proof that Sabo is not Kaido". I accept that you think that. We have the freedom of opinion after all. You have to understand that others have other views and do not accept ideas, because there is not enough evidence. As I already said, there is no real evidence for your opinion, so you should have expected scepticism from others, escpacially if you do not categorize what you say.



That is not what I mean. I ment the arguments' existence themselves and not their "worth".

You thought I was talking about arguments that give undeniable proofs, but I was talking about arguments that only imply or indicate something, but cannot be denied.
- again no . I am not saying Sabo could be kaidou because it can't be proven that he isn't. You are changing/misrepresenting what i said. I never said sabo is kaido because you can't prove he isn't. I am saying Sabo is Kaido for X, Y, Z reasons.



- Also remember, i am not saying any one should agree with the theory itself. Few people tried to argue against the structure of my argument and i defended that. I am defending the reasoning and structure. And to be honest, i think Kaido could be many different people. Sabo, new character, former roger pirate ( james theory which i like), ... .


I had fun chatting/discussing this with you. But i am personally going to leave it at this. cheers.
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Old 2014-01-05, 23:01   Link #64
paradox13
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Not likely that Sabo is Big Mom.

Possible though.
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Old 2014-01-06, 01:28   Link #65
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Cmon guys can't you see that Sabo is Luffy, I mean he IS fighting in the Colosseum, the same place where 'Luffy' is fighting. Furthermore he's fighting as the mysterious fighter Lucy, who has been hinted at as being Luffy. My logic is flawless: if Luffy = Lucy, and Sabo= Lucy, then Luffy = Sabo. As a bonus theory he could also be Rob Lucci. Checkmate.
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Old 2014-01-06, 02:20   Link #66
Whitemoon648
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Ok you guys win. I am done posting in the one piece section of animesuki.
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Old 2014-01-06, 02:56   Link #67
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Ok you guys win. I am done posting in the one piece section of animesuki.
I still don't see the arguments. I am really puzzled about this. The only argument I saw was "Kaido wanted to get to Whitebeard, which indicates he is Sabo, because he wants to get to Ace". I see the connection here, however this would work as well: "Kaido wanted to get to Whitebeard to attack him from the flank, while he is distracted, therefore he is not Sabo, as Sabo would not attack Ace's crew in the middle of such an emergency, but rather openly and honorably".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
-Kaido is the only other actor that tries to to go to marineford.
and saying well, the marines said Kaido was after whitebeard's life is the same form of arguments as how people argued that , in green data books Sabo was deemed dead.
Shaky argument, as proven above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
-Kaido defeated Moriah around the same time as sabo incident. I won't go into the time line debate here, because we already did it in previous chapters and we concluded there could have been a few months gap between Sabo's accident and Moriah's defeat in the favor of the theory.
and the power level upgrades and match ups in one piece are kinda arbitrary in many instances. So really no point arguing about how sabo could have defeated Moriah. If Oda is the writer, then it is possible.
The word "could" makes this complicated. It is not conclusive. It COULD have happened before Sabo set out as well. And not to mention Kaido's "cruelty" when attacking Moria's crew (killing his whole crew). That is a rather sudden personality change, which again must be assumed for the sake of argument. That does not really enforce your point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Just two of many (subtle hints).
You said that but did not gave any new ones. Well if I was cornered like you, I would have used more arguments instead of persisting on the few that I used already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Any ways feel free to disagree .
P.S. I am not saying it should be that way or it is this way, all i am saying it is a valid theory by definition at the very least.
I just showed that your arguments are not able to stand the ground, as their basis can be interpreted differently. You also make the mistake of assuming that "Kaido must be a character that was shown already". He can be a character that we have never seen before as well, so any connections you think exist, may simply be coincidences.
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Old 2014-01-06, 03:43   Link #68
The Small One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
Sabo is Big Mom.
Big Mom?
I thought Shanks is Kaido. That's why he was able to stop Kaido's crew without an effort.


As funny as the Sabo=Kaito theory is, I just don't see a single hint or reason hinting to it. It's basically like saying the ressurected Gold Roger himself is Kaido.
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Old 2014-01-06, 04:48   Link #69
Veviticus
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Big Mom is luffy's mom. She went on a massive binge after dragon left her. Sorry I spoiled it for everyone
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Old 2014-01-06, 11:46   Link #70
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
Big Mom is luffy's mom. She went on a massive binge after dragon left her. Sorry I spoiled it for everyone
lol, there is actually a hint! Both Luffy and Big Mom eat a lot!
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Old 2014-01-06, 12:06   Link #71
noktown
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You're all full of it,Usopp is the evil mastermind,final boss of OP.
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Old 2014-01-06, 13:06   Link #72
Rainbowman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Example for you:
All birds can fly. Penguin is a bird. Thus Penguins can fly. <--- This is called a valid argument. You can of course deny it's factual essence but you can't say this argument isn't valid.
Except, penguins fly (swim) in the water not the air.
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:11   Link #73
ranchan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veviticus View Post
Big Mom is luffy's mom. She went on a massive binge after dragon left her. Sorry I spoiled it for everyone
You know, I actually would like that to happen
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Old 2014-01-06, 16:23   Link #74
janipani
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Dwarfs for new nakamas!
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Old 2014-01-06, 22:37   Link #75
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by ranchan13 View Post
You know, I actually would like that to happen
This was a popular theory a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.
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Old 2014-01-06, 23:09   Link #76
paradox13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post

- You say undeniable argument. If an argument can't be denied, then it's a fact. Also you are confusing a valid argument and undeniable one. A a valid argument just needs to have it's conclusion follow from it's premise.
Example for you:
All birds can fly. Penguin is a bird. Thus Penguins can fly. <--- This is called a valid argument. You can of course deny it's factual essence but you can't say this argument isn't valid.
Except your premise is wrong. Not all birds can fly.
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Old 2014-01-06, 23:26   Link #77
Whitemoon648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Big Mom?
I thought Shanks is Kaido. That's why he was able to stop Kaido's crew without an effort.


As funny as the Sabo=Kaito theory is, I just don't see a single hint or reason hinting to it. It's basically like saying the ressurected Gold Roger himself is Kaido.
Well Just a fact Kaido tried to go after Whitebeard is a (subtle) hint.

Some people see it, some don't .

Same as that revelation in Naruto Manga. Some people saw it and others didn't. and when it happened the way People Like me* predicted it ( years back), people started calling Kishimoto troll.

I saw it 3-4 years before it happens and people never saw it. I guess every one see things differently.

But from what i recall almost no one admitted they were wrong but rather than doing that they said " Kishimoto is a troll".

So i am used to seeing as how many people are not able to discern the connections. No worries. It either is or not. We shall know in future.

Plus i am not so hell bent on Sabo must be kaido but rather saying Sabo could be Kaido.

Any ways, i am done with this argument as many people in this forum don't see it ( as always ).

P.S. To those who come up with Sabo can be big mom, whitebeard, shanks, ... , well no. I am saying Sabo has a good chance of being Kaido ( in a logical way, backed by hints that they can't see). Sabo could be kaido and i back it with possible explanations as how ( based on what has happened thus far). If people don't see it, then they don't see it that way ( again same way as that naruto thing). But if you guys still want to talk about the impossibles then by all means.
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Old 2014-01-07, 00:06   Link #78
paradox13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitemoon648 View Post
Plus i am not so hell bent on Sabo must be kaido but rather saying Sabo could be Kaido.
No you're absolutely right.

But Sabo 'could' also be Big Mom, Whitebeard, Shanks, the revived Gol D Roger or Garp himself.

See your theory really says nothing, because right now we don't know for sure who Sabo is, so its possible for him to be anyone. So sure you're right, but it doesn't say anything at all.

I don't see how you can't seem to understand this fact.
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Old 2014-01-07, 01:23   Link #79
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I'm closing this thread since the current "discussion" is horribly off-topic and has been beat to death. Please take it to a more appropriate thread or just let it drop.
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Old 2014-01-07, 09:16   Link #80
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I kind of want Sabo to be Kaido now, if only because of how vindictive many posters have been in this thread...

edit: oops, Crow closed the thread. Guess I was too tired to notice.
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