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Old 2014-01-21, 09:56   Link #4501
Requiem-x
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I agree with Flower about Shizu and Maho being screwed, though one is much more than the other. Shizu would have to activate her power in the first hand for it to be useful, otherwise she'd just be blocking the other players, making things easier for Teru. In elimination rounds one could use that as an advantage by picking on another player to drop someone below zero, but in a fight to win its worthless.

Maho is even worse off because of the "one turn only" part. Even if she can see what her opponents wiil do next turn (I'm assuming she forgets next turn or its more of an intuition to her) that's just Toki's first stage power, which Teru can counter with ease. And of course, Maho couldn't make use of the rollout effect, which starts with very small gains, so she'd actually be crippled by this power the turn she copies it.

Also, it seems Teru can't handle so well powers that affect the tiles rather than the opponent directly, like Kuro's dora magnet. She got wrecked, but her power was never countered.
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Old 2014-01-21, 10:49   Link #4502
Azure_yo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower View Post
The only other player I can think of that might be able to nullify Teru's mirror is Jindai - particularly if Teru tried to take a glimpse while the gods had descended inside her in full force. I still believe Jindai is going to be unveiled as a fearful creature in the Individuals, as was hinted at in the manga.
I don't think it will be much of trouble for Teru, as far as we know the weak god only possessed JIndai not the other Miko at the QF, in manga it say that Kasumi(taishoo) is the vesel for the strongest god when Jindai not able to house all the god, isn't that mean we already know the power of the greatest god of Jindai
or is it just Jindai able to use all 9 god??? at the same time, please enlighten me

Oh yeah also please help me with this for anybody who know Mahjong closely (i'm super beginner/+/- 1 month exp)

I have a hand consist of 1111234567999m, then i ron someone with 8m, in explanation it say a hand consist of that is Yakuman, but why am i only got haneman, thank before
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Old 2014-01-21, 11:14   Link #4503
Marina2
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Shizu may be a great threat to Teru more than you guys think.

From Semi-Final, Teru's mirror power seems to represent how she can understand the playstyle of other player and see though all players' plans and moves - Completly control the flow of game.

Who know what will happen if that power is blocked. Teru may become a totally bad player who can't read the game at all and easily become the prey of other players.

This is just my theory.
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Old 2014-01-21, 11:32   Link #4504
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Requiem-x View Post
Maho is even worse off because of the "one turn only" part. Even if she can see what her opponents wiil do next turn (I'm assuming she forgets next turn or its more of an intuition to her) that's just Toki's first stage power, which Teru can counter with ease. And of course, Maho couldn't make use of the rollout effect, which starts with very small gains, so she'd actually be crippled by this power the turn she copies it.
The restriction on Maho's power isn't on being able to use another player's power for a single turn, it's for a single hand. Given that Teru has multiple powers (or multiple aspects to her powers), I agree that the aspect it would make the most sense for Maho to copy would be her mirror, but I don't think her mirror power would work that way. Essentially, the effect of Teru's mirror power is to give her insight/knowledge of what style her opponents have, not any specific future knowledge about what tiles can be played. Since this is simply knowledge about other players, there's no reason why Maho would somehow need to forget it. Copying Teru's mirror would thus give Maho a pre-emptive intel boost about the playstyles of all her opponents at the table. Although it seems difficult for that knowledge by itself to give Maho an actual serious chance at taking on Teru, it still represents a significant advantage Maho would have over other players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure_yo View Post
I don't think it will be much of trouble for Teru, as far as we know the weak god only possessed JIndai not the other Miko at the QF, in manga it say that Kasumi(taishoo) is the vesel for the strongest god when Jindai not able to house all the god, isn't that mean we already know the power of the greatest god of Jindai
or is it just Jindai able to use all 9 god??? at the same time, please enlighten me
I don't really remember it being stated that the god Kasumi took over for Jindai was the strongest of the bunch. Maybe someone could post up the manga reference (and maybe the original japanese as well) so we can check.

As for your issue with an expected chuuren pooto, were all of the tiles in your hand self-drawn? What I mean is, did you make any chis or pons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Shizu may be a great threat to Teru more than you guys think.
...

Who know what will happen if that power is blocked. Teru may become a totally bad player who can't read the game at all and easily become the prey of other players.
I find this somewhat unlikely because Teru's mirror activates at the very start of the round immediately following the first game of the match whereas Shizu's power requires a long buildup time before she can acclimate to her surroundings and become 'one' with the mountain.
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Old 2014-01-21, 11:35   Link #4505
raincrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Shizu may be a great threat to Teru more than you guys think.

From Semi-Final, Teru's mirror power seems to represent how she can understand the playstyle of other player and see though all players' plans and moves - Completly control the flow of game.

Who know what will happen if that power is blocked. Teru may become a totally bad player who can't read the game at all and easily become the prey of other players.

This is just my theory.
Yeah. I think the only real way to deal with her is to somehow counter or downplay her increasing hand values. Yes, maybe there's a player out there (maybe Saki) who can avoid the mirror thing, but for everyone else, Teru is going to figure them out.

Satoha thought the same when she commented on Yuuki's increasing speed. I think Hisa understands that too, and wants Yuuki to do fast hands in conjunction with Kuro hogging all the dora. I don't think her plan is necessarily for Yuuki to beat Teru, but to just limit the damage as much as possible, so that Teru doesn't get a gigantic lead for her team again.

So, yeah, Teru knows how you will play, but her desire to get increasing big wins will be holding her back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post


I find this somewhat unlikely because Teru's mirror activates at the very start of the round immediately following the first game of the match whereas Shizu's power requires a long buildup time before she can acclimate to her surroundings and become 'one' with the mountain.
I guess that's the real question here. Is her buildup a power that can be blocked? If it is, Shizu couldn't do much at the start, but at least limit Teru's points later on. But then again that's how Shizu is against everyone...her power is really cool, but it seems like it's hard to utilize correctly since it takes awhile to kick in.

Last edited by raincrow; 2014-01-21 at 12:47. Reason: extra stuff
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Old 2014-01-21, 14:16   Link #4506
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The restriction on Maho's power isn't on being able to use another player's power for a single turn, it's for a single hand. Given that Teru has multiple powers (or multiple aspects to her powers), I agree that the aspect it would make the most sense for Maho to copy would be her mirror, but I don't think her mirror power would work that way. Essentially, the effect of Teru's mirror power is to give her insight/knowledge of what style her opponents have, not any specific future knowledge about what tiles can be played. Since this is simply knowledge about other players, there's no reason why Maho would somehow need to forget it. Copying Teru's mirror would thus give Maho a pre-emptive intel boost about the playstyles of all her opponents at the table. Although it seems difficult for that knowledge by itself to give Maho an actual serious chance at taking on Teru, it still represents a significant advantage Maho would have over other players.
I see your point, but I wonder, does Maho even need that? She copied Saki's style with no problem in their first match ever. Was it ever implied in the manga she studied Saki's matches beforehand out of admiration too?

About Kasumi, I remember the girls saying something like that after the match ended, how she got a weak god that time and how otherwise she'd have wrecked everyone.
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Old 2014-01-21, 17:15   Link #4507
juventus95
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First time here, joined to be in this great discussion

For some reason Maho doesn’t copy Mako’s power. She can do Nodoka’s logical play and Saki’ rinshan but she can’t copy “Nodocchi” or Saki’s +/-0 playstyle. This makes me think Maho can only copy unhidden powers. Mako’s photographic memory is not easily perceived, and it’s not like Maho has the ability to read someone’s mind. Kokaji pro only speculate that Teru has an ability to see through other players like she has a mirror after speaking to pros who played against Teru. So if Maho fights against Teru, it’d be interesting to see whether she can copy Teru’s mirror power or dealer repeats.

I can’t imagine how Shizu can be a great threat to Teru. Last tournament Teru beat Arakawa Kei (unknown power) and Satoha (not much is known about her power, but based on SF vanguard’s match, she has good mahjong skill). Thus, Teru has to be pretty good skill-wise. Jindai also competed in the last tournament. I’m not sure how the individual is set up, but she at least must be better than Jindai. Otherwise, how could she become champion? Imagine a tournament where you have to face several “monster” players or players whose ability contradicts others, relying on raw power is not a smart idea. I think Teru is still better than Shizu in terms of mahjong skill. Unless Ritz ignores all the sibling quarrels and family conflicts she has built up for 5 years and decides to let side character win for once
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Old 2014-01-21, 22:55   Link #4508
Azure_yo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I don't really remember it being stated that the god Kasumi took over for Jindai was the strongest of the bunch. Maybe someone could post up the manga reference (and maybe the original japanese as well) so we can check.

As for your issue with an expected chuuren pooto, were all of the tiles in your hand self-drawn? What I mean is, did you make any chis or pons.
It's on the chapter where Kasumi grandmother brought her to the temple, in those chapter we know that Kasumi is the closest blood relative to Jindai

And yes, i did chi and pon, Is chureen has to be closed hand?
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Old 2014-01-21, 23:13   Link #4509
teja208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure_yo View Post
It's on the chapter where Kasumi grandmother brought her to the temple, in those chapter we know that Kasumi is the closest blood relative to Jindai
That chapter doesn't say it's the strongest just the "frightening one" it could mean lots of things.
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Old 2014-01-22, 00:30   Link #4510
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure_yo View Post
It's on the chapter where Kasumi grandmother brought her to the temple, in those chapter we know that Kasumi is the closest blood relative to Jindai

And yes, i did chi and pon, Is chureen has to be closed hand?
Yeah, chuuren indeed has to be a closed hand.
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Old 2014-01-22, 01:47   Link #4511
tjalorak
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Actually Yoshiko was the last person I expected to be color commentator for the anime. And they had to make a whole-new partner for her to bounce off too. I suppose it's just not possible to just use Hayarin for the role...
Responding more to this here since there are some spoilers.

Hayarin is either watching or commentating on Rinkai's match, given that later, she'll hype up Usuzan, whose team she will have seen in the other QF. While I'm not surprised that Yoshiko showed up since I figured her to be watching the Eisui match anyway (what with not knowing much about Usuzan and her comments to Himematsu), that does actually make her being called in by Ikuno somewhat strange. Isn't that pretty biased, to call in a pro to prepare one of the participating teams on another, both of whom had been commented on by her?

I suppose if she no longer has commenting duties for the rest of the way... and I guess there isn't really much conflict of interest or other insight (because everyone sees the same footage)... but still, it seems strange. I don't think any of the other commenting pros specifically prepare participating teams and instead, stay neutral.
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Old 2014-01-22, 09:38   Link #4512
Peanutbutter
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The commentary for Kiyosumi's 2nd quarter is actually newly added, if anyone hasn't figured it out.

Kainou-pro was used because there's no one else who can, unless they intro a new pro.

Speaking of which, Eisui's entrance was pretty grand, and very lulz-worthy.
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Old 2014-01-22, 09:57   Link #4513
raincrow
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The same thing sort of happened when Fujita went to talk to Koromo during her match. She didn't give her direct mahjong advice or tips or anything, but a commentator coming down to chat with one of the players did seem odd. If you were a passerbyer, you could easily think that she could have been handing out advice.

Actually...it really wouldn't be right at all, now that I think about it. Since the viewers (and commentators) get to see everyone's hands, they could easily inform their favorite player of any patterns they see, weaknesses, whatever. Someone's own team or coach giving advice off that would be ok I guess, but a 3rd party like a network crew seems a little weird.
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Old 2014-01-22, 10:49   Link #4514
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Peanutbutter View Post
The commentary for Kiyosumi's 2nd quarter is actually newly added, if anyone hasn't figured it out.

Kainou-pro was used because there's no one else who can, unless they intro a new pro.

Speaking of which, Eisui's entrance was pretty grand, and very lulz-worthy.
As expected of a true hime-sama, I suppose. Gotta admit the anime is improving my opinion, if not of Eisui as a whole, of Jindai at least.

Now the talk is about the commentators, eh? Once again I'm amazed at the depths of what you canget from this series.
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Old 2014-01-22, 11:09   Link #4515
Flower
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Well, one of the reasons my ears pricked up regarding the commentator is because not only did she later confirm that Saki was an unbekievable national class monster, but also thought she could show the method to defeat her - that alone pricks my interest.

As for Jindai, it is true that her appearances thus far have been nowhere the level of a monster; we only got a teeny glimpse. I, for one, am looking forward to her switching into overdrive in the Individuals....
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Old 2014-01-22, 17:52   Link #4516
juventus95
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It seems pro favoritism is not a big issue in Saki-verse. Anyway Kainou-pro has Saki's play records and with her pro experience, she can point out things that others can't see. It's not fair at all, especially to Kiyosumi.
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Old 2014-01-22, 21:27   Link #4517
tjalorak
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Originally Posted by juventus95 View Post
It seems pro favoritism is not a big issue in Saki-verse. Anyway Kainou-pro has Saki's play records and with her pro experience, she can point out things that others can't see. It's not fair at all, especially to Kiyosumi.
Unless Usuzan makes it through, Kiyosumi's going to be the only team without a coach... It really just makes me even more impressed with Hisa's skills. Despite seeming like she's lackadaiscal, Hisa actually puts in a lot of work behind the scenes. She is consistently shown studying records and strategizing for her team.
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Old 2014-01-22, 21:32   Link #4518
Myssa Rei
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That does beg the question though: as a school club, you'd think that they'd have an adviser at the very least, even if the teacher in question has no actual practical knowledge in what the club does (see Ama-chan in Free! or Mutsuko in Tamayura), just to supervise. And Hisa does the actual coaching anyway, but still...

With Kiyosumi, we've seen none of this, which makes it even more amazing how the club was even able to last this long. Methinks Hisa is playing up her influence as Student Council president to the hilt.
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Old 2014-01-22, 21:46   Link #4519
Requiem-x
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That does beg the question though: as a school club, you'd think that they'd have an adviser at the very least, even if the teacher in question has no actual practical knowledge in what the club does (see Ama-chan in Free! or Mutsuko in Tamayura), just to supervise. And Hisa does the actual coaching anyway, but still...

With Kiyosumi, we've seen none of this, which makes it even more amazing how the club was even able to last this long. Methinks Hisa is playing up her influence as Student Council president to the hilt.
Are we sure it's only for Kiyosumi? The Achiga girls didn't ask for someone like Harue, she tagged along. Also, Eisui doesn't have anyone like that either, right?
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Old 2014-01-22, 21:53   Link #4520
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Are we sure it's only for Kiyosumi? The Achiga girls didn't ask for someone like Harue, she tagged along. Also, Eisui doesn't have anyone like that either, right?
Harue not only applied to teach at Achiga, but she did so to become the club's adviser on a official capacity. As for the rest, let's see, Eisui and Shiraitodai have no visible adviser, but think of how these teams are structured -- the former is like a clan structure (branch families helping the main one), the latter like a Yakuza family rather than a club.
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