AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Games

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-02-14, 13:16   Link #1181
Chiu_fan
Panzer Vor!
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Inside a WWII German tank
Strange, I can't seem to use the construction function.
__________________
Chiu_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-14, 20:56   Link #1182
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
On the resource efficiency, the LSC probably won't show it, but if you think on event, it will save you 15% of resources used. Means you can make 17.6% more trips with the same starting resources and basically increase your chance of success by 17.6%. That is a fairly significant amount for just one game mechanism. Of course there will be some guys who can cruise past the event with lvl 70 fleet. But he have lower chance to do so comparing to a guy with lvl 99, or soon 150 fleets. That is certain, unless evasion mechanisms are broken
How does 15% of saved resources translate into 17,6% more trips anyway?
It isn't like that wasn't already available by the way, as the fact people having more resources by using a paid stuff will not really affect those who don't pay it.
Also, we also know that evasion hardly matter unless the number is significant: the major consensus and data gathered imply that turbine are plainly useless, so the extra evasion doesn't do anything.

Also, remember that this feature only works for those who have a *full lvl99 fleet", which means that those who are eligible for a full 150 fleet are already prepared anyway.
Quote:
On the stats, we can wait to see when a ship hit lvl 150, how many evasion and other stats it will increase (comparing to lvl 99). But i don't think it's an outrage assumption to think the increase rate is similar to lvl 50-99. In fact, if they were selling a one-per-ship potion that permanently increase evasion (+hp and luck) on cash shop. Everyone would have been up in protest. But disguise it into a marriage system that raise ship lvl cap (and stats caps) instead, and much fewer will question it
It is a completely off track assumption considering we have no data supplementing this trend, and as far as it goes, the stats gain curve is already steep by 70-90. So unless you gain more than 20-40 stats with this system, it won't do jack. Fall event arguably have shown no "much better result" with a 99 fleet than 70.
The only visible advantage you get with the marriage system is the extra HP, which is absolutely garbage for anything CA or higher. It does give a notable effect on SS and DD, except that these can't tank that much to begin with, so it will at best save you more trips on your subs runs.
Luck gain is not really important since you can do that with Maruyu to begin with.
Quote:
Of course it's just an isolate incident, but it's a power creeping development. Nothing really serious now, but i can't quite sure about the future, assuming that in a year or less, there will be a new cash shop mechanisms to release the level cap/ stat cap again. Then we will see more difficult events to make it still challenging for those with lvl 150 fleets, and what being learnt from other MMORPG or web game is: power creeping will pose lots of balancing issues for game designers, and if leave unchecked will break the game.
I really have trouble to see how you can expect absolute power creeping, when the game hardly works on that. The events we got thus far have little to no apparent tangent towards such phenomenon you describe.
You are making alarming assumptions based on games who had such tangent. I find it quite exaggerated to think they "merely disguised a HP/Luck/Lvlcap potion into a fancy marriage document" while they could have done much worse like the large ship construction: it isn't unusual for event only item to be never re-released and when they are, they are usually given as premium. Instead, we had a steeper yet free system, despite they could milk this without having any backlash.

The logic you brought involve game mechanics that give a plain big and obvious advantage to the paying party, which is... hardly the case as of now.
I would agree if the battle stats such as artillery, torpedo etc could be extended with this, but it just didn't, which are, by far, the most important stats in the game, way more than merely evasion and luck.

The main crux of this game is management and glaring RNG shenanigans. What would break the game balance is either the ability to permanently prevent ship sinking, purchasable extra equipment slot, manual targeting and compass selection. Or the actual bane would be exceptionnal ships only available in a cash/gacha shop.

But something that just can't be quantified, hardly affect battle mechanics? Unless we have clear data that a lvl150 fleet is absolutely better than a lvl99 AND that having a lvl99 fleet is not enough for the ongoing event, that's a big paranoia you got there.
I won't deny it could potentially give an advantage here, but it would be the plain same than damecon and paid resources that give more opportunities with due cash. Nothing absolutely outstanding.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2014-02-14 at 21:08.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 12:03   Link #1183
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
Still waiting for a potential mod to play as enemy vessels, got to marry them all! Although, marrying shinkaisen destroyers is um....
__________________

hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.
blitz1/2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 16:40   Link #1184
Firefly00
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Send a message via ICQ to Firefly00 Send a message via AIM to Firefly00 Send a message via Yahoo to Firefly00
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Still waiting for a potential mod to play as enemy vessels, got to marry them all!
I don't see why not (also in this vein: the 'off-faction' ships you can get in STO, such as the Recluse-class carrier)...

Quote:
Although, marrying shinkaisen destroyers is um....
So as to make the above confirmable (or deniable) would someone kindly share and/or point out imagery of what the OPFOR is fielding these days?
__________________
White Knight of the Order of Mihoshi Enthusiasts
"Destroyed overnight, or the next one's free."
Arc Nova
Firefly00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 17:08   Link #1185
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 32
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly00 View Post
So as to make the above confirmable (or deniable) would someone kindly share and/or point out imagery of what the OPFOR is fielding these days?
I-Class Destroyer.

The Wo-Class are just the most popular of the "humanoid" Abyss ships.

EDIT: So apparently 25k+ Admiral exp worth of effort amounts to just... 4 ranking points. Just enough to put me back into the top 500 this morning, though who knows if that's enough to keep me there until this afternoon's reset. Some people are insane, seriously. o_O
__________________

Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2014-02-15 at 18:29.
Myssa Rei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 18:54   Link #1186
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
yea, Wo is DEFINITELY the Shinkaisen idol.

Let this happen!!!! xD
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22887582

EDIT: Just watched the Yamato marriage, I bet Abgrund would be producing Yamato doujinshi for some time now!
__________________

hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.

Last edited by blitz1/2; 2014-02-15 at 19:06.
blitz1/2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 21:49   Link #1187
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
How does 15% of saved resources translate into 17,6% more trips anyway?
As 1/0.85= 1.176

Like if resources consumption rate reduced by 1/3, you can make 50% more trips rather than just 33.3%
Quote:
You are making alarming assumptions based on games who had such tangent. I find it quite exaggerated to think they "merely disguised a HP/Luck/Lvlcap potion into a fancy marriage document" while they could have done much worse like the large ship construction: it isn't unusual for event only item to be never re-released and when they are, they are usually given as premium. Instead, we had a steeper yet free system, despite they could milk this without having any backlash.

The logic you brought involve game mechanics that give a plain big and obvious advantage to the paying party, which is... hardly the case as of now.
I would agree if the battle stats such as artillery, torpedo etc could be extended with this, but it just didn't, which are, by far, the most important stats in the game, way more than merely evasion and luck.

The main crux of this game is management and glaring RNG shenanigans. What would break the game balance is either the ability to permanently prevent ship sinking, purchasable extra equipment slot, manual targeting and compass selection. Or the actual bane would be exceptionnal ships only available in a cash/gacha shop.

But something that just can't be quantified, hardly affect battle mechanics? Unless we have clear data that a lvl150 fleet is absolutely better than a lvl99 AND that having a lvl99 fleet is not enough for the ongoing event, that's a big paranoia you got there.
I won't deny it could potentially give an advantage here, but it would be the plain same than damecon and paid resources that give more opportunities with due cash. Nothing absolutely outstanding.
I think you are getting just too defensive on this.

The marriage system did give a cash-shop that raise both the level and the stats caps for those who pay. That is the fact right? Of course the developers can balance the the additional stats of lvl 150 so it won't be significant, and the addition hp, evasion, luck won't give paid players the edge (like what you believed).... But if that is the case, it will counter the objectives of raising the level cap to 150 in the first place. The whole points of introducing lvl 150 is to keeps hardcore players playing and levelling their ships. And the incentive for it is: you will have an edge with a lvl 150 ship comparing lvl 99 one in those future game contents (events mostly)

You know what i'm getting right?
  1. for free players, we expect the additional stats won't be significant enough to give paid players the advantage
  2. for paid players (as buying those licenses), they expect the additional stats to be significant enough to give them the advantage. They paid $7 for each kanmusu afterall
... that provide the contradiction within the players base mindset. And the developer then either have to lure the first group into thinking "well we got the free ride anyway so of course it's not fair" and trick them on how those stats won't be significant much despite they are. Or trick the second group into thinking that these new level and stats will be significant despite they are not. I won't need to remind you that for most game, the first is what happened, and most of the time rightly so


Those game designers on Extra Credits did say once about the cash shop, and how cash shop should only to provide the paid players the conveniences (of higher slots, more bath tubes or construction slots...etc...) and should never to a) restrict game contents and b) provide tools that only empower those could pay. Kancolle has been doing well with the first, except it was not financially profit or even sustainable, and i thought they will get it covered with all those new coming merchandise. But this new marriage system simply not only wasted the resource/ opportunity to introduce more incomparable elements (like how the BB can't be compared with CV, and CV can't be compared with DD, or cut in versus double hit) and instead simply raised level caps which contributed into power creeping. Worse, they slap it into cash shops making it not even accessible to all players.

This time either was a slip-up by Kancolle and we will never see these kinds of game mechanisms again. Or expects more new cash shops that are required to access new game mechanism/ empower your ship coming out with every major update
__________________

Last edited by risingstar3110; 2014-02-15 at 22:02.
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 22:27   Link #1188
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
You know what i'm getting right?
  1. for free players, we expect the additional stats won't be significant enough to give paid players the advantage
  2. for paid players (as buying those licenses), they expect the additional stats to be significant enough to give them the advantage. They paid $7 for each kanmusu afterall
... that provide the contradiction within the players base mindset. And the developer then either have to lure the first group into thinking "well we got the free ride anyway so of course it's not fair" and trick them on how those stats won't be significant much despite they are. Or trick the second group into thinking that these new level and stats will be significant despite they are not. I won't need to remind you that for most game, the first is what happened, and most of the time rightly so
That's where I have to simply disagree with your assumption: you immediately think that those who pay for this feature expect "stats to be significant enough to give them an advantage".
Like I already stated, it is clear as day that the additional stats are marginal at best, and the data lead to consensus that evasion arguably don't contribute anything major.
It is basically on the flipside: as far as it goes, the whole point is a fancy "pandering" feature, and the fact a lot of people use them for non efficient ships tell us a lot the point of this feature.
If you really want to appeal hardcore players with actual "pay to win content", trying a roundabout approach is silly at best, considering how japanese audience is used to paid service that lead to such result (for instance, LSC was a perfect opportunity to be a gacha system, moreso due to the presence of Taihou and Yamato). They would introduce clear advantage from the get go, and things would go south only if they make events that force you to resort to such stats improvements.

Instead, we have basically wish fulfillment element, that also have another feature in order to justify the price for people who aren't really into this kind of stuff, yet not really trying to break the game.
Why would they need to trick the playerbase, while they could simply resort to premium stuff from the get go? It isn't like they would suddenly make people booing the game, while they still keep stuff like paid resources available and yet discourage the use of them?
In fact, instant repair, instant build item, damecon and so forth are typically paid items, yet are farmable (damecon to a certain extent). I don't think anyone would be surprised to see them paid product to begin with or new paid items of that caliber, yet it isn't the case, is it?

So really, it isn't like I assume KC devs to be saints and offer free goods or anything. But all actions taken thus far are minimizing the advantage of paying real cash on the game, and that marriage system isn't any game breaker at all, and does follow the same business mindset they had from the very beginning.
Quote:
Kancolle has been doing well with the first, except it was not financially profit or even sustainable, and i thought they will get it covered with all those new coming merchandise. But this new marriage system simply not only wasted the resource/ opportunity to introduce more incomparable elements (like how the BB can't be compared with CV, and CV can't be compared with DD, or cut in versus double hit) and instead simply raised level caps which contributed into power creeping. Worse, they slap it into cash shops making it not even accessible to all players.
We are going in circle, but again you are obsessed on the fact the "level cap has been raised" despite it just doesn't given any blatant edge or anything. And again, we have absolutely no evidence that these extra stats will be required. Power creeping involve a definite tangent that force players to invest into improvement to get over specific levels/maps in a given game, generally with time sinking and paid stuff. In such instance, how are 20 evasions points along with 9 extra HP at best going to definitely help you there? With all the events we got thus far, and their plans for later, it just doesn't add up with a so called "power creeping" trend.
Also, I don't see how level cap increase involving minimal change on battles cut short of any mechanics that could be involved later. They already have their plans set, and I really doubt developping the marriage system was anything noteworthy in term of coding and management.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2014-02-15 at 22:58.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-15, 23:13   Link #1189
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 32
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
It's like Cirnobar commented on Twitter about people complaining about "balance" -- what balance are we looking at here, anyway, in a game where RNG has a massive sway? It's not like we're directly competing with the other players in the server anyway, aside from PVP, and even RNG is still queen (I managed to S-victory a group of 90s with level 39-ish CAs this morning for example).

Do take note that 51 additional level just amounts to 25~ ish additional stats, and if the graph released is accurate, level the experience required to level from level 130 onward just increases exponentially. All this adds is artificial longevity at least, as getting to level 150 will take months for a casual player (note how I don't include NEETS -- see the fool who level 99'd an Uzuki in two weeks).
__________________
Myssa Rei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-16, 00:59   Link #1190
Lantern
Unamused
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Flying in the Air
Age: 26
Eh... why so serious?

Actually, why are we trying to meta-game a browser game anyway? There isn't even any player interaction in the game so who exactly are people "paying-to-win" against?

Aren't we suppose to just sit back and watch our ship daughters shine?
Lantern is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-16, 03:57   Link #1191
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Pretty much. If anything, yaraon and twitter users focalized solely on the marriage stuff and the extra visuals/lines, without much interest in the extra stats or levels.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-16, 16:21   Link #1192
alexismaster
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
VPN does not work, is there something else I could use?
alexismaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-16, 18:20   Link #1193
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 32
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexismaster View Post
VPN does not work, is there something else I could use?
Uhm, what? You mean the client mentioned in the wiki? How so?

Technically any proxy that can provide a Japanese IP to use will work in a pinch.

Edit: Somewhere around the 420-430 rank in my server. It's ridiculous how much has to do to even stay in the 500s. Kind of want to "invest" in ranks before the inevitable lemming rush at the end of the month of world 5-2 spammers.
__________________

Last edited by Myssa Rei; 2014-02-16 at 18:31.
Myssa Rei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-17, 12:03   Link #1194
HashiriyaR32
GT-R Fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Whenever my ships go into combat, I consistently reminded of my experience with the Outer Ops missions in the original PSP version of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker. I can't count how many times one of my guys tries to shoot up a vehicle with small arms, or uses a rocket launcher on enemy infantry.
__________________
HashiriyaR32 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-17, 15:48   Link #1195
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
What's the function of the valentine's choco?
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-17, 15:52   Link #1196
Achiuakuna
関西機のみんな、お仕事お仕事!
 
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Avoiding people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
What's the function of the valentine's choco?
Free resources.
__________________
Achiuakuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-18, 04:19   Link #1197
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Hachi getto!!

Did 4 times a day the minimum sub recipe since her being available before finally get her . Required me less attempts than to get my first I-58 to be honest . But having more fuel and steel than i need anyway so it was all cool ^^
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-18, 04:56   Link #1198
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Pretty much. If anything, yaraon and twitter users focalized solely on the marriage stuff and the extra visuals/lines, without much interest in the extra stats or levels.
I'm not accusing the developers going toward the wrong path... yet.

But this was probably a very sensitive time for game or browser game in general, to show which direction they are heading. Because now is when there original content started to being depleted for the majority of players (collected all ships, get the important one to lvl 99, etc) and they need to provide another time sink that not only being incentive enough to keep players at base, but probably can provide another dimensions to their game. LSC was one, both as an reward (if you missed out events) and an punishment (for missing out of events), but it worked perfectly. Introduce of sub is another, change the game dynamic completely and was a real good move

Normal game would have either break or have a major update by now, more often former than not. But since Kancolle was fairly well designed originally and they have kept up with good update so far, a combination of more events + extra Ni Kai probably would have kept the interest for another 6-12 months. What we don't know is the long term direction of the game. And the marriage system that words has been thrown around for a while, ended up coming in to be quite a bit of disappointment. Reasons i have already listed:
- it is simply just a raise of stat cap, and is more benefit ( i understand your point here, but let just not going too far on how benefit it is) to paid players
- it could be a sign of power creeping development. Maybe i'm too sensitive, or like you said "paranoid" on it
- it was restricted to only one per girl unless you paid, means it does not act as well as a time sink (just think if you can marry everyone, we will see every Kanmusu being grinded to lvl 99 and beyond just for that), and could be one of the actual core game mechanic instead



The lvl 150 rather than... let's say 110 or 120 actually made it even more suspicious. If they want to limit the stat gain and just want to allow otaku to marry their waifu, then allow max lvl to be 110 or 120, and provide new CGs whenever you pass the "marriage level" (e.g. lvl 99) will work much better, and more important: less coding, than implementing all these mechanisms about the ring which then trigger the event screen, which then give the extra stat, and increase the level cap. Game designers/developers do take times and efforts to design and implement any new game mechanism. And time used here to design this cash shop item (that have a very important concept - marriage), could be used in much more efficient way
__________________

Last edited by risingstar3110; 2014-02-18 at 05:26.
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-18, 06:46   Link #1199
DragonBladeX
Kancolle love!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Singapore
Weird, I just failed Expedition 36 even though I clearly met the requirements for flag ship and fleet composition. I also clearly remembered supplying them before sending them off too.

My fleet composition:

Inazuma kai lvl 31 (DD)
Sazanami lvl 5 (DD)
Ushio lvl 4 (DD)
Tatsuta kai lvl 23 (CL)
Chiyoda lvl 1 (AV)
Akitsumaru lvl 1 (Should be counted as AV I think)
__________________
DragonBladeX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-02-18, 09:09   Link #1200
Lantern
Unamused
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Flying in the Air
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonBladeX View Post
Weird, I just failed Expedition 36 even though I clearly met the requirements for flag ship and fleet composition. I also clearly remembered supplying them before sending them off too.

My fleet composition:

Inazuma kai lvl 31 (DD)
Sazanami lvl 5 (DD)
Ushio lvl 4 (DD)
Tatsuta kai lvl 23 (CL)
Chiyoda lvl 1 (AV)
Akitsumaru lvl 1 (Should be counted as AV I think)
Akitsumaru does not count as AV nor CV.
Lantern is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
browser game, ship girls

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.