AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-02-27, 00:00   Link #3041
SonicSP
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hot Non-Winter Place
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to SonicSP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon
Concerning the use of the Cherudim SAGA and Arios Ascalon in space, I think it makes sense. The Cherudim SAGA's color scheme will give it a better chance at visual camouflage in space, since it's painted in blacks and grays, rather than greens and whites. Furthermore, it's designed for interior base combat. And from what we've seen, like with the final battle aboard the Celestial Being, you're far more likely to find a base that would be big enough/roomy enough for interior MS combat in space than you are on Earth, which would be mostly open-air. The Arios Ascalon, on the other hand, could be used in either role, but it'd still be mostly a high-speed fighter craft rather than a guerilla weapon, and thus its combat capabilities are more suited for space combat than terrestrial combat, given how CB currently wants to stay hidden in this time period.
The color scheme isn't really much of an issue since its established by now that the GNMS including the GN-X and Celestial Being all use nanomachines as paint that the Shell Flag uses. It wouldn't be much of an issue to change the color regardless of the equipment set.

The biggest issue with being deployed in space that I can see is that in open space the original Cherudim's superior sniping capabilities will work better for open space. Not only that, the SAGA's main close combat advantage comes from it being equipped with two GN Pistol IIs plus two of Dynames' old GN Pistols. This is combined with the two GN Submachineguns which are literally the Sniper Rifle IIs but limited to the Vulcan function. The basic Cherudim have all of these equipment in lesser number plus the longer sniping ability and the Shield Bits.


My issue with Ascalon is the weight, where its way heavier than the base.They've noted that they've improved the balance issues that it used to have (when it was first designed, it was passed over in favor of Arios GNHW/M due to a few issues), but the weight still remains the same during its actual deployment. It also carries a lot of equipment that arguably would slow it down. The GNHW/M design would have be better, is equipped with heavy beams and still have the missiles for GN Field penetration. The claw remains for melee ramming in Fighter Mode. I also make the assumption that the top camouflage is also an ability available to normal Arios since it was never noted to be a new addition to Ascalon and the previous generation showed that it was a standard feature on the Gundams. I will admit that we do not know the gross weight of the Arios GNHW/M but we do know that the gross weight of the Arios Ascalon is 81.5 metric tons, pretty high by GNVMS standards

The increased weight would be more of an issue under gravity than in space. GN Particles can of course reduce it on Earth but that also means more particle consumption on weight reduction . The less aerodynamic design would fit space more than Earth's atmosphere. GNMS in general aren't aerodynamic but weird decision for an Aerojet type.

Personally, I think of they needed to use the variants for whatever reason (real life it's just kit marketing; in jniverse there coukd be one or two possible reason) should switch but I think the optimal solution would have been to use the Gundams where they were assigned at the one but with their original equipment. The Arios frame is still suffering some damage from the final battle it's noted in 00V Senki, which would also add more reason to use the basic equipment set as its tested and would have less chance of running into issues than an equipment set that suffered many design issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon
Concerning the Exia's placement in terrestrial combat, Sonic, it's possible that this was the very first sortie for the Exia R3. Thus, they likely had it descend to Earth, and from there it remained on Earth, likely in a CB facility or concealed in an Assault Container, like the Exia and Dynames was in season 1.
If I am right about what veda2314 specifically said, it mentioned that Exia descended on Earth within the movie's timeframe: specifically when Setsuna went from Ptomaios to Earth where he eventually came to Saji and Louise's rescue.

But the timeframe noted here was definitely before when the movie started. If my recollection of Veda2314 to be true, it means that Exia R3 was in space during the movie and Setsuna used it as a descent craft to Earth. For that to happen, Exia R3 after this mission would need to be transported to space at some point.

That's not really impossible or anything but it would go against Celestial Being's current MO of assigning suits on a specific area. Presumably they wouldn't want to transport suits around if their access to OE is limited. The lesser access is noted somewhere to be due to ESF monitoring the orbitals more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon
Concerning the movie Gundams, I think it was mentioned, though I think in a meta sense, that the Harute was designed for space combat and thus focused on a non-aerodynamic design. Given the way it transforms and how its Marute Mode works, it was intentional. The Zabanya and the Harute both had a heavy emphasis on superior firepower. This is likely because in space, there's little room for ambush and guerilla tactics when it comes to actual fighting--unless there's asteroid debris around, or at a colony or elevator, there's little to no cover. No ambush points. So the mobile suits were likely built around space combat where firepower would be needed to deal with enemy forces.

On Earth, you have the environment to work with for setting up ambushes and such--hiding under the water, or within foliage, using buildings and canyons for cover, maneuvering around differing terrain--and therefore the older Gundams like the Exia and Dynames would be better suited for such. They're definitely guerilla warfare-type weapons, and not flying fortresses like the 00, Zabanya, and Harute. Also, as for what you already noted about the Raphael being built by a different faction, also remember that it was rebuilt from a Gadessa frame, which was already a mobile suit designed for space combat, so Tieria didn't have much options there anyway.]
I agree that the Harute design appears gone intentional. I was speculations on their reasons for doing so when the last two machines aren't meant for that and my speculation was that the more "specific MS for specific region" concept may have played a role in the design decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon
Also, as for what you already noted about the Raphael being built by a different faction, also remember that it was rebuilt from a Gadessa frame, which was already a mobile suit designed for space combat, so Tieria didn't have much options there anyway.
I don't recall any mention of the Gadessa-Series being space specialized in the sources or the anime. There's one mention in S214 where Revive commented that his Gadessa can't match Arios' mobility in the atmosphere but this pretty much fits the general background of most humanoid MS. One of the 00P chapters that was Abuhool focused talked about how Gundams in general performed more poorly in atmosphere and MS like Abuhool was made in an attempt to neutralize that weakness.

The 00V Senki Raphael Dominions chapter mentioned that Raphael's issue on Earth was weight distribution, which we can see on the backpack. I've always made the assumption that Raphael's being more suited to space was because this was less of an issue in space. From what I can see of the Gadessa series, they do not have an obvious weight distribution issues to Raphael's extreme and so not need a variant with different weight distribution just to function on Earth.

The best issue I can see on the Gadessa Series is GNZ-003 Gadessa's GN Mega Launcher perhaps also having weight distribution issues but it was used on Earth without much issues. Garazzo and Gadess also appears to not have any obvious Earth problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon
I think, as far as CB utilizing both the 0-Raiser attachment and the Seven Sword/G attachment, the 0-Raiser is coincidentally better equipped for communication and dialogues in its design, by accident. Remember that the wings are basically massive particle control antennae. Given Setsuna's new trick with particles and communication, they likely help with utilizing the Trans-AM Burst's communication effects. The 0-Raiser still has its missile and beam cannons to aid if combat becomes necessary, and that's further supplemented by the GN-Sword III. The Seven Sword/G equipment, on the other hand, can be better used for warfare operations when dialogues are out of the question. Setsuna would still prioritize dialogue over warfare at this point, but CB still has the option if it's absolutely necessary.
I guess you'll have a point about the antenna thing. My main issue was the sentence in 00V Senki 1 that says that the GN Buster Sword II is modified with a machine that is equivalent to being equipped the 0 Raiser. I guess if we interpret that to not include the antennas and its better controls than it would make sense.

I actually think the 00 Raiser form is superior in general when it comes to combat. The moving wings would greatly increased 00's AMBAC capabilities and mobility.

E08 mentioned something in a PM to me about how the MG 007S/G manual that the GN Sword II Blaster has infinite possibilities or something as such. I believe Senki chapter 1 mentioned how its also designed specifically for Innovators. I "think" the message we're supposed to get is that the GN Sword II Blaster is better than the GN Sword III especially if its supposedly the best weapon is a set that's more combat oriented than 00 Raiser's. If this is indeed true, then adding it with 00 Raiser would make it quite deadly. I don't see the main right hand being a difference in communication factor either way.

Seven Sword/G can also deploy a GN Field but 00 Raiser can do that as well. GN Sword II Long does add a more to overall firepower though as does GN Sword II Short. Technically, its possible for 00 Raiser to be equipped with the GN Sword IIs on the waist if needed to increase the combat potential comparison.
__________________

Last edited by SonicSP; 2014-02-27 at 12:20.
SonicSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-03-12, 12:24   Link #3042
Vash1306
Pancakes
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Reading through, makes me ask why couldn't they make more 00 content D:

I miss the 00 Universe, see Exia in Gundam Build Fighters makes me want MORE!
Vash1306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-03-13, 15:10   Link #3043
Tetsu Aero
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Because they kind of closed it with the movie.
It would have crossed into macross continuity had they continued.
Tetsu Aero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-03-14, 01:16   Link #3044
SonicSP
Sonic!I AM SONIC!!!!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hot Non-Winter Place
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to SonicSP
As far as sidestories are concerned, there's still the issue of the Celestial Being members after the war. Very little has said about them, not even in sidematerials sourcebooks. Aside from that, it was a decent place to stop.
__________________
SonicSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2014-03-14, 10:27   Link #3045
Tetsu Aero
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Hm, it's only Leo Sieg that we know of, he travelled with the Sumeragi.
Tetsu Aero is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.