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Old 2014-05-20, 23:22   Link #4701
DJ_RockmanX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Because solo queue isn't competitive play. I have a friend in challenger and he says Yi and Udyr are permabanned in his matches with good reason.
Ah, 5s vs solo queue then. I can see Yi and Udyr working specifically with lane bully compositions and extended laning phases, but if the opposing team is smart they'll run a fast push composition while running 2v1 in order to negate the laning phase.

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Can't recall the last time I didn't see a Kassadin or Katarina be a real liability. Since this has become more of a teamfighting meta, Syndra gets protection and gets time to splat people.
I'm not a fan of any assassins in the current 5s mid lane meta myself. Assuming a proper front line, Syndra is a solid mage pick that bullies lane, brings decent wave clear to sieges, and has the possibility of setting up picks.
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Old 2014-05-21, 03:08   Link #4702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Ah, 5s vs solo queue then. I can see Yi and Udyr working specifically with lane bully compositions and extended laning phases, but if the opposing team is smart they'll run a fast push composition while running 2v1 in order to negate the laning phase.
No, I was referring to solo queue.

I'm on Oceania and they have had a long-term obsession with Yi and Udyr on solo queue. However, this trend has become greater in the last couple of months. People would rather face Evelynn, Kha'Zix or Lee Sin rather than the two aforementioned junglers. The changes to Feral Flare don't really impact those two much from my experience and my challenger friend definitely won't let them through.
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Old 2014-05-21, 10:50   Link #4703
DJ_RockmanX
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Interesting.

This makes me curious - are these bans globally accepted at all levels on OCE, or are there certain challenger tier players that are being targeted?

Also, which champions are trending for the other lanes?
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Old 2014-05-21, 12:09   Link #4704
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Udyr has been a long time jungler of choice on OCE amongst the higher levels. It has now filtered down to the lower levels. Yi has been hot on OCE since Feral Flare got put into the game across all levels. I know the Feral Flare nerfs made their popularity decline in other regions, but not here.

Site to check rates for all regions

Note that for Oceania, across all leagues, Master Yi has been the 4th most banned champion over the last 7 days and Udyr is 6th. As well as the difference between those two being 30% with Yi's ban rate being 55%. People just don't like versing him - the snowball potential from slack teamplay in solo queue is just too great. LeBlanc is #1 at 80%.

And if you don't believe me about Rengar, check his played rate in Challenger for Oceania. 12th for games played over last 7 days. Ryze is 6th most played.

Also interesting to note across most leagues, Morgana's win rate % is positive (above 50%). However, go to Challenger and Morgana falls to 43%. Also notable that any league below Challenger plays very high amounts of Vayne but has win rates of 44%-46% while she's mid-range for being played in Challenger but has a win rate of 60%. Also notable that Lee Sin and Thresh are always in the top few most played but are well negative in win rates until you hit Diamond.


Challenger is very much dependent on what players are specialised in. My friend in Challenger on Oceania is a specialist on Riven. The pros will generally stick to their usual role and go with their usual suspects or something they want to learn up.
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Old 2014-05-21, 20:28   Link #4705
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Still think in terms of Feral Flare junglers, Xin Zhao and Nocturne are the best two. The former has some deadly early game ganks, has great duelling/counterjungling potential. The latter is probably the best champion at picking people who are caught out of position as well as also being a good duellist... and lets face it that happens all the bloody time in solo q.

Otherwise, I'm still sticking to my faithful Lee Sin.
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Old 2014-05-24, 19:48   Link #4706
Mach56gs
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I would have thought that Volibear would have been a great user of the FF especially paired with his ult.

Build that and tank and proceed to drag your team to the Nexus. (Obviously, situational item pickups apply.)

But for now Volibear hasn't seen too much favor. I can't see why since he's got an execute and can even set up Yasuo's ult more effectively than Xin Zhao.

Seriously, the resurgence of Xin Zhao over Volibear in pro games confuses me. Can someone help me with that?
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Old 2014-05-24, 21:33   Link #4707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach56gs View Post
I would have thought that Volibear would have been a great user of the FF especially paired with his ult.

Build that and tank and proceed to drag your team to the Nexus. (Obviously, situational item pickups apply.)

But for now Volibear hasn't seen too much favor. I can't see why since he's got an execute and can even set up Yasuo's ult more effectively than Xin Zhao.

Seriously, the resurgence of Xin Zhao over Volibear in pro games confuses me. Can someone help me with that?
Volibear takes too long to get going. Xin Zhao clears fast and can gank the moment he hits Level 2. Also, Volibear is a lot easier to kite. Xin Zhao has an instant gap closer. Volibear can only move a bit faster.

Xin is rated #5 on the pro scene. The dominant 4 are Kha'Zix, Elise, Evelynn and Lee Sin.
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Old 2014-05-25, 01:30   Link #4708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Volibear takes too long to get going. Xin Zhao clears fast and can gank the moment he hits Level 2. Also, Volibear is a lot easier to kite. Xin Zhao has an instant gap closer. Volibear can only move a bit faster.

Xin is rated #5 on the pro scene. The dominant 4 are Kha'Zix, Elise, Evelynn and Lee Sin.
Nocturne and Xin are tier 2 after those 4 yeh.
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Old 2014-05-25, 03:23   Link #4709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Nocturne and Xin are tier 2 after those 4 yeh.
The main reason being while Xin and Nocturne have great initiation, they can't disengage and are easy pickings if a fight goes bad. Lee Sin, Elise, Evelynn and Kha'Zix have mobility to engage and disengage as well as fast clearing/early ganks.

And this is something that needs to change...jungling is getting nearly as one-dimensional as AD carry is....they should freaking find a way to make tanky junglers like Nautilus, Sejuani, Hecarim, Jarvan IV and the like relevant again. Sick of these super squishy lineups.
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Old 2014-05-25, 03:46   Link #4710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
The main reason being while Xin and Nocturne have great initiation, they can't disengage and are easy pickings if a fight goes bad. Lee Sin, Elise, Evelynn and Kha'Zix have mobility to engage and disengage as well as fast clearing/early ganks.
To me it's more the fact that Xin Zhao falls off pretty hard in the lategame and unlike say Lee Sin (whose dmg also falls off) doesn't bring anymore near the amount of utility. In the case of Nocturne, he is one of those junglers that is very reliant on getting level 6... and a lot can happen to your lanes till you hit lvl 6.

Quote:
And this is something that needs to change...jungling is getting nearly as one-dimensional as AD carry is....they should freaking find a way to make tanky junglers like Nautilus, Sejuani, Hecarim, Jarvan IV and the like relevant again. Sick of these super squishy lineups.
And it's indirectly affected toplane for the longest time now. Because you have a squishy jungler, you generally need to have a tanky top laner, which is why Renekton, Shyvanna, Mundo (who is slowly coming up, particularly in OGN), Trundle are dominant picks. The only outliers is Jax due to his splitpushing ability being unmatched, Ryze because of his hyper late scaling and Irelia (EU only) due to two players (namely Wickd and Kevin) being very comfortable on those champions and performing very well on her (Soaz and Darien needs to stop playing her though because they are absolutely awful on her) The other reason ofc, is this never-ending 2v1 - 4v0 laneswaps that are still plaguing league today even after multiple trinket timer changes...

Want to see more variety so that Kennens, Jayces, Vlads, Rumbles, Malphites and the like again like in Season 2 and Season 3.
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Old 2014-05-25, 09:20   Link #4711
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Old 2014-05-25, 18:08   Link #4712
Mach56gs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Volibear takes too long to get going. Xin Zhao clears fast and can gank the moment he hits Level 2. Also, Volibear is a lot easier to kite. Xin Zhao has an instant gap closer. Volibear can only move a bit faster.

Xin is rated #5 on the pro scene. The dominant 4 are Kha'Zix, Elise, Evelynn and Lee Sin.
I read you.

Seems that all Xin has is that instant engage. Voli brings so much more with his Execute and ultimate. Seems really strange choice, IMO, but pros are pros for a reason.

I definitely agree that this "early game" jungler problem is annoying. Tank is subpar, utility is nonexistent (save Nunu).

And Riot's solution, of course, is to lower Jungle XP. Seems very counterintuitive, is that this hits tank and utility jungers just as bad.

I miss my Maokai, Jarvan, and Volibear.

10/10 comic. That Jarvan LOL.
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Old 2014-05-26, 06:57   Link #4713
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Xin also has knockup, knockback as well as having a fairly decent clear time. His main weakness is that once he engages you either succeed or die. Volibear (and Udyr) aren't played anymore because with the highly mobile team comp meta they will never get to their target unless you get the perfect engage, something that is much easier to get with the top4 junglers.
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Old 2014-05-26, 14:16   Link #4714
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Old 2014-05-26, 16:04   Link #4715
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do people here play together or is this mostly a discussion thread?
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Old 2014-05-27, 01:49   Link #4716
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Its mostly a discussion thread. Although we do add our IGNs. Alright, the NA servers just took a dump or something.
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Old 2014-05-27, 12:15   Link #4717
Mach56gs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Xin also has knockup, knockback as well as having a fairly decent clear time. His main weakness is that once he engages you either succeed or die. Volibear (and Udyr) aren't played anymore because with the highly mobile team comp meta they will never get to their target unless you get the perfect engage, something that is much easier to get with the top4 junglers.
Well technically Volibear has a knock up and knock back in the same skill, lol.

I feel that they hyper movespeed comp might become more viable with Sivir x ToA combo. That and Voli would be quite the combo.

But I agree. It's not going to catch fire anytime soon if you have such simple targetable gap closers.
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Old 2014-05-27, 14:46   Link #4718
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And cue the cracks about Spaarti cylinders/ghola vats/et cetera...

...because the mirror mode is back, albeit with a twist. A couple of different things they could add to the mode in keeping with the theme...
  • present a group of preset item loadouts, and have the players vote on these as well using the same rules; or
  • eliminate items altogether
In either case, the shop would be unavailable as well.
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Old 2014-06-04, 01:14   Link #4719
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Well I'm glad ONE OF US was able to finish the game.

Spoiler for All Leavers:
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Old 2014-06-04, 10:21   Link #4720
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Oof.... So I take it the whole connection issue has gotten worse, huh?
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