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Old 2013-10-18, 18:52   Link #1761
ALPHA-Beatrice
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Meta-Battler's basic point to ANGE-Beatrice was that she was of the future, they of the past. So what if they all died? So what if the Kyrie Culprit Theory is true? It's over, ANGE needs to move forward into her own life.

She could revive the Ushiromiya Family if she wanted(as the last bearer of that name), or she could change her name and let the troubled past go.

Battler wanted her to let go, and that's why he created the Final Game.

Think of the Final Game as a stage separate from the other 7. that deal specifically with what happened on October 4th, 5th 1986.
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Old 2013-12-03, 16:18   Link #1762
Funyarinpa
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Quick question, is there a penalty for using the hints in Bernkastels puzzle?

As basic as it is, I've been trying to solve it for a while now, but I still haven't had any success. Maybe it's because I have never read a mystery novel before or maybe I'm just too dumb, but no matter how often they mention things like playing dead or creating a closed room from within, I can't apply that "twisted logic" myself.

I'm pretty sure I've found out whom I can trust, but regarding the murders themselves.. no dice.

I'd rather not miss any content, so if there are optional scenes for not using hints I'd rather think about it for a few days more.
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Old 2013-12-03, 16:30   Link #1763
LyricalAura
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Not that I remember, and the hints are in the form of Battler and Beatrice working through the puzzle themselves, so you probably want to see those anyway. If you're worried about it, you can always just reload from a save file after you read the hints.
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Old 2013-12-03, 16:35   Link #1764
Funyarinpa
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Wow, why didn't I think of that myself... I suck.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 2013-12-04, 17:18   Link #1765
Funyarinpa
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So I'm "finally" done with Umineko... Makes me kind of sad.
Even though I didn't figure out shit until near the end (and even then only the most obvious stuff), I haven't had this much fun in a long time - I would even go as far and say that this was the best time ever I had with any media in my whole life.

What can I say about this episode... I loved it! The only thing I'd criticize right now, directly after finishing it, would be that the trick-door ending was pretty underwhelming and felt like a cop-out, especially when compared to the magic one... but I guess that makes sense if that one is supposed to be the "true" ending.

I never really know what to write immediately after finishing something, but I just felt like about Umineko since I don't know any people who are into stuff like this in real life and I'm still in that "I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S OVER"-state of mind, so sorry for this pretty much empty post.

Not sure what to do next. I might just read 1-4 again, maybe read some theories beforehand since I've seen Ryukishi state several times that, once you have a certain amount of knowledge, you should be able to get a whole bunch of clues from the earlier episodes.
Maybe I should read the Manga instead to get additional information.
Or maybe I will give the anime another.... nah, I'd rather not.
Then there are always Rose Guns Days and Higanbana (which I will probably never read since it seems way too extreme for my tastes) if I want more Ryukishi, but I kind of want to have more of Umineko, especially since I still don't understand the majority of the story.
For now I will just enjoy the music box and reminisce about the tale, being completely emo like a huge nerd.
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Old 2013-12-09, 16:01   Link #1766
Witch of Uncertainty
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Try Goats reading seacats. They solve umineko while tlaking about everything. Their attention to details is quite astonishing, and really makes you appreciate Umineko on a whole different level. At least it did to me.

I'll drop a link to the entire first episode, in case you're interested https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
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Old 2014-06-03, 03:43   Link #1767
fuff
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so i just looked over this and...


Spoiler for mangaend/gameend:

Last edited by fuff; 2014-06-04 at 00:12.
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Old 2014-06-03, 12:46   Link #1768
AuraTwilight
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From the sound of it you haven't finished the Umineko VN. No, there's still more to come, don't worry.
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Old 2014-06-04, 00:12   Link #1769
fuff
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
From the sound of it you haven't finished the Umineko VN. No, there's still more to come, don't worry.
thanks! ya i havent read the VN lol
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Old 2014-06-30, 14:30   Link #1770
Ginko08
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This might have already been talked to Death here in this thread, but as I didn't check every single page I can't be sure of it, and because I saw some guys mentioning that Yasu being the culprit is imossible (at least in later games, because she isn't capable of doing so or something), I'd just like to write my take on why her motivations are strong enough to actually go through with all of this.
Love is always a bit of a cop-out when choosing a motivation, it is certainly not the most original. However, it is certainly a valid one, and essentially the main reason why Yasu did all she did. Battler appearing after these six years caused Yasu to question her relationship to George and Jessica once again, and she sort of went crazy over it. Every single one of her personalities had a love life that wanted to be fulfilled, Yasu however couldn't decide on which one to have her/his dream fulfilled. The 6th game, as we all know, represented that inner conflict. Howeve, regardless of the outcome, even the winner would never have his dreams fulfilled, for the sole reason that Yasu cannot love, or to be exact simply because Yasu's body is left mutilated after the cliff incident. Said internal struggle, plus the hate (perhaps not hate, but still negative feelings) she felt towards the rest of the family, made her come up with said murder plan. Her Beatrice persona already shows that she isn't the most sane person around, so those feelings might have already been enough to make her kill everyone. If someone manages to solve the Epitaph, she would stop the murders, This I might justify with her knowing that if someone solved the epitaph, she herself wouldn't have any need to commit murders herself aynmore, as the ones who solved it would commit murder out of greed. Meaning, no matter if it is solved or not, the murders would always take place. Also, with said epitaph, and with the planned murder mystery, she wanted Battler to remember his sin, she wanted him to remember his realtionship with her. Even if her love couldn't be fulfilled, she wanted him to remember due to her lingering affection for him.
These would just be my short ramblings about it, correct me as much as you want if you fid something wrong with what I wrote.
Btw, regarding the characters, as I've seen them being bashed a lot here; At least from the books I've read so far and shows I've seen so far these were some among the most intelligent ones. Ofc, they were less perceptive than the readers, but I don't think there is any mystery where every character is on the reader's level. The Umineko characters at least showed basic common sense, everyone of them (ofc, they are all insane so they might do some crazy stuff, but they are in no way retarded), and there were also quite intelligent ones among them. At least, that's what I can say when I compare them to characters from other franchises.
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Old 2014-06-30, 17:24   Link #1771
jjblue1
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Originally Posted by Ginko08 View Post
This might have already been talked to Death here in this thread, but as I didn't check every single page I can't be sure of it, and because I saw some guys mentioning that Yasu being the culprit is imossible (at least in later games, because she isn't capable of doing so or something), I'd just like to write my take on why her motivations are strong enough to actually go through with all of this.
Love is always a bit of a cop-out when choosing a motivation, it is certainly not the most original. However, it is certainly a valid one, and essentially the main reason why Yasu did all she did. Battler appearing after these six years caused Yasu to question her relationship to George and Jessica once again, and she sort of went crazy over it. Every single one of her personalities had a love life that wanted to be fulfilled, Yasu however couldn't decide on which one to have her/his dream fulfilled. The 6th game, as we all know, represented that inner conflict. Howeve, regardless of the outcome, even the winner would never have his dreams fulfilled, for the sole reason that Yasu cannot love, or to be exact simply because Yasu's body is left mutilated after the cliff incident. Said internal struggle, plus the hate (perhaps not hate, but still negative feelings) she felt towards the rest of the family, made her come up with said murder plan. Her Beatrice persona already shows that she isn't the most sane person around, so those feelings might have already been enough to make her kill everyone. If someone manages to solve the Epitaph, she would stop the murders, This I might justify with her knowing that if someone solved the epitaph, she herself wouldn't have any need to commit murders herself aynmore, as the ones who solved it would commit murder out of greed. Meaning, no matter if it is solved or not, the murders would always take place. Also, with said epitaph, and with the planned murder mystery, she wanted Battler to remember his sin, she wanted him to remember his realtionship with her. Even if her love couldn't be fulfilled, she wanted him to remember due to her lingering affection for him.
These would just be my short ramblings about it, correct me as much as you want if you fid something wrong with what I wrote.
Btw, regarding the characters, as I've seen them being bashed a lot here; At least from the books I've read so far and shows I've seen so far these were some among the most intelligent ones. Ofc, they were less perceptive than the readers, but I don't think there is any mystery where every character is on the reader's level. The Umineko characters at least showed basic common sense, everyone of them (ofc, they are all insane so they might do some crazy stuff, but they are in no way retarded), and there were also quite intelligent ones among them. At least, that's what I can say when I compare them to characters from other franchises.
Well, the trick is that it's actually impossible to prove if the real Sayo would have killed someone as the real Sayo never got the chance to try and shoot a person as her game ended before she could start the first twilight.

On the various games instead she's surely the killer but the games are merely narrative fiction. If I self insert myself in a tale I can even pilot jets better than a top gun pilot after 1 lesson.

The manga goes into details about her mind state during those fateful days and it explains that while at first she thought the idea to kill everyone was the perfect solution as she wrote her plans she started to lose her resolution, started to cry at the idea of killing everyone and truly wanted merely to be stopped. Ep 7 Teaparty described her as a resigned, empty shell.

She didn't think people would murder out of greed if they were to solve the epitaph, she was actually hoping Battler would solve it and that she could use this to devote her life to him.

So, back to your original point... maybe she could have killed had she tried to do it as soon as she got the idea and not when the momentum had passed but the more time progresses the harder it is for her to get determinate enough.
It's still possible though but I wouldn't bet on her and anyway we'll never know if she would have managed to do it as she was stripped of the chance to do it.

I think the Umineko characters were mostly well done as characters even if I understand how people might not like some of them and how many put high expectations in Battler, hoping he'll be another 'detective Conan' when he's actually only a boy seeing his relatives being murdered.

Also I understand how some might have been disturbed by the actions of some characters. What Kinzo does to Beatrice, for example, or what Erika wants to do to Battler in Ep 6 or how Rosa beat Maria are pretty disturbing things.
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Old 2014-07-01, 08:36   Link #1772
GreyZone
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It's ironic how we learn more about Yasu than about Battler, who seemed to be the protagonist all the time... the truth though, was that the Battler we followed was a fictional Battler that was a mix of Yasu's 6 years old memories of Battler (memories from the time he was 12 years old) and the impression Tohya has of Battler. All we know about the real 18 year old Battler was that he was a "gentle brother" and possibly the bits from EP7TP, though these were not witnessed by Eva, but they could possibly be Tohya's memories... But of course Battler disappears in the middle of that story without a trace and next we know of him is that he is an amnesiac that was appearantly found by Ikuko.
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Old 2014-07-01, 21:10   Link #1773
jjblue1
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It's ironic how we learn more about Yasu than about Battler, who seemed to be the protagonist all the time... the truth though, was that the Battler we followed was a fictional Battler that was a mix of Yasu's 6 years old memories of Battler (memories from the time he was 12 years old) and the impression Tohya has of Battler. All we know about the real 18 year old Battler was that he was a "gentle brother" and possibly the bits from EP7TP, though these were not witnessed by Eva, but they could possibly be Tohya's memories... But of course Battler disappears in the middle of that story without a trace and next we know of him is that he is an amnesiac that was appearantly found by Ikuko.
Yes, honestly I would have apprecciated it more if Ep 6 was... Battler's answer to Sayo's untold question (why didn't you come back?) than a retake of Sayo's trial.

Of course through Umineko there are plenty of hints about Battler's life, how it wasn't all splendid, how he might have been not as 'problem-less' as George seemed to think him but actually there's really too little to work with. We don't even know why Asumu died and we're left to assume his grandparents died of old age but we don't really know.

After all we were told Battler liked Sayo back then and I like to think he didn't just marry Beatrice merely out of guilt but most of the truth about Battler is never explained. The manga so far hadn't even made clear if Battler wrote to Shannon or not... -_-
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Old 2014-11-09, 08:48   Link #1774
Reality Breaker 2.0
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How should I interpret Battler's reunion with Beatrice and the whole family in the ???? end?
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Old 2014-11-09, 10:11   Link #1775
Levani
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How should I interpret Battler's reunion with Beatrice and the whole family in the ???? end?
Dunno, you decide.

My interpretation is that Tohya finally solved his identity issues and could move on from Ushiromiya Battler, while Battler reunited with the people he loved and the people that had died.
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Old 2014-11-09, 15:48   Link #1776
AuraTwilight
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another popular interpretation is that Toya died and reunited with his loved ones in what is basically Heaven.
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Old 2014-11-09, 16:06   Link #1777
Reality Breaker 2.0
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Dunno, you decide.

My interpretation is that Tohya finally solved his identity issues and could move on from Ushiromiya Battler, while Battler reunited with the people he loved and the people that had died.
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another popular interpretation is that Toya died and reunited with his loved ones in what is basically Heaven.
Those were pretty much the thoughts I had on the end. But after I saw Ange as a child in the reunion, I grew fickle. Especially when it came to the point you presented, Aura. But then again, Ange is the last Golden Witch... Ack.
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Old 2014-11-09, 16:10   Link #1778
Levani
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This scene always makes me cry...
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Old 2014-11-09, 16:18   Link #1779
Reality Breaker 2.0
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This scene always makes me cry...
Especially that last picture of Battler and Beatrice in the Golden Land ._.
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Old 2014-11-10, 17:23   Link #1780
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Sorry for the double post.

Anyway, for EP. 8, I first read the "HD" version and then recently the "original" version so I wanted to confirm: On the last picture of the original version showing the Golden Land shown in the spoiler tag below, is that black spot on the field the silhouette of both Battler and Beato?

Spoiler for OTP, mang:
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