AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-06-10, 21:51   Link #21
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
I've never played Persona or Tales so I wouldn't know how the story and characters are like in those games.

The point I do want to make is, the development of characters and scripts in Final fantasy games and most JRPG (and animes) in general tend to have this over the top, very clichéd personalities, very rarely they break out of the mould.

In general JRPGs feel like they cater towards a younger audience, they rarely feel sophisticated enough for non-jrpg fans to take seriously.

Don't think that I'm a typical westerner with a prejudice towards Japanese games, I did grow up with jrpgs (suikoden 2, breath of fire 4 etc) but the trends do change. In the age of voice acting and better visual mediums, you have to incorporate a good coherent plot and character development in game and make your game stand out.

The difference between most jrpg and western rpg are the fact that, JRPG may be a bit too simplistic and childish to audiences outside of dedicated JRPG fans (who are very few in current game industry).

Western games like mass effect on the other hand, both the younger and older gamers can enjoy the story plot and relate to the characters.

There is a reason why JRPGs have taken a steep decline outside of Japan, there is also a reason why Souls series are successful in the west.

Well you're not convincing me otherwise. The problem is not that you think Japanese characters are "very clichéd personalities, very rarely they break out of the mould", the problem is that you seem to forget that the west have their own version of the "Spiky haired teenager" and that's the "Bald Space Marine". The West are just as guilty of "very clichéd personalities, very rarely they break out of the mould", the only difference is that their poison of choice is the angry tough guy out for revenge.

And no, the reason why JRPGs are on a decline is because more people prefer the simplier and easy to get into gameplay that WRPGs have become. JRPGs are alot of things but very rarely are they simple and easy to play which means it takes time to get into them to learn their mechanics. It's much easier to just pop in a game of Skyrim or Mass Effect and have them point you where to go to kill stuff. Of course there's this big focus on open world which gamers seem to love alot....
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 21:52   Link #22
deltaxxmintpie
Cake lover Cookie ninja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Well you're not convincing me otherwise. The problem is not that you think Japanese characters are "very clichéd personalities, very rarely they break out of the mould", the problem is that you seem to forget that the west have their own version of the "Spiky haired teenager" and that's the "Bald Space Marine". The West are just as guilty of "very clichéd personalities, very rarely they break out of the mould", the only difference is that their poison of choice is the angry tough guy out for revenge.
You are really telling me that storyline/characters and deliveries in JRPGs are just as mature and engaging as those in western games?

Hold on a second, I have to ask, so what comparison can be made between Ghost in the Shell and say, my little sister can't be this cute?

One inspired the matrix creator, and the other, wel...

Quote:
And no, the reason why JRPGs are on a decline is because more people prefer the simplier and easy to get into gameplay that WRPGs have become. JRPGs are alot of things but very rarely are they simple and easy to play which means it takes time to get into them to learn their mechanics. It's much easier to just pop in a game of Skyrim or Mass Effect and have them point you where to go to kill stuff. Of course there's this big focus on open world which gamers seem to love alot....
Dark souls is the most sophisticated, difficult and demanding game to get into. it is highly acclaimed and successful in the west.

As is Metal Gear Solid.

I'm talking about story, NOT gameplay. Comparison can be made in gameplay too, but that is not the point. As this discussion branched from Anime.

Japanese Devs have the choice to break out of that JPOP culture mould and try something a little different, has depth and appeal to both youngs and adults, but they are not trying.

Why is Kojima higly regarded in the west? Why is the final fantasy series getting criticised in the recent years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Well Jrpg is actually a genre in itself, and not exactly was limited to location or western inspiration (watch this if you want to know more).

Basically they are only different in their method of presenting character or storyline. Biomass or Dragon Age for example could arguably be a JRPG. While Dark Soul is not
I understand, the comparison I was making though was between distinctively JPOP inspired JRPG vs western rpg like Elderscrolls/mass effect as opposed to Darksouls/Metal gear vs Mass effect.

Metal Gear if it was JRPG, it is bound to be successful in the west because Solid Snake.

Think Solid Snake vs Snow from FF13, who is a better character? Who has a better impact?

Even think Wei Shan from Sleeping dog vs the main character from Vanquish.

They are all equally Macho and arguably western. Which characters will appeal more to the western audience?
__________________
deltaxxmintpie is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:05   Link #23
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
You are really telling me that storyline/characters and deliveries in JRPGs are just as mature and engaging as those in western games?

Hold on a second, I have to ask, so what comparison can be made between Ghost in the Shell and say, my little sister can't be this cute?

One inspired the matrix creator, and the other, wel...
I have to ask, what comparison can be made between One Piece and say Jersey Shores?

See, I can pit gold against crap too.

At the same time, I have no idea how you got this from my previous post about western cliche characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
Dark souls is the most sophisticated, difficult and demanding game to get into. it is highly acclaimed and successful in the west.

As is Metal Gear Solid.

I'm talking about story, NOT gameplay. Comparison can be made in gameplay too, but that is not the point. As this discussion branched from Anime.
Souls is one of the few the exception, not the rule. And Souls still pales in comparison with the legion of followers from Skyrim and Mass Effect.

The point is that you're basing your argument that the story of these RPG games is the determining factor of their popularity, while I'm sort of saying that by the nature of them being games, it's more likely that gameplay is the deciding factor. But yes you're right that we have gone off track which is why I'm against using game stories as an analogy to TV stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
Japanese Devs have the choice to break out of that JPOP culture mould and try something a little different, has depth and appeal to both youngs and adults, but they are not trying.

Why is Kojima higly regarded in the west? Why is the final fantasy series getting criticised in the recent years?
As I understand it, Final Fantasy XIII saga is just one bad decision after another.

Kojima is highly regarded because he's pretty badshit crazy and ballsy.
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:12   Link #24
deltaxxmintpie
Cake lover Cookie ninja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I have to ask, what comparison can be made between One Piece and say Jersey Shores?

See, I can pit gold against crap too.
Yes, the jersey shore is a pile of crap, but that doesn't disprove the fact that there is some genius of a show like House of Cards.

I'm asking for a "JRPG" JRPG that has a very mature plot and characters, forget about the gameplay, I'm asking for a "JRPG" JRPG that appeals to adults.

Quote:
Souls is one of the few the exception, not the rule. And Souls still pales in comparison with the legion of followers from Skyrim and Mass Effect.

The point is that you're basing your argument that the story of these RPG games is the determining factor of their popularity, while I'm sort of saying that by the nature of them being games, it's more likely that gameplay is the deciding factor. But yes you're right that we have gone off track which is why I'm against using game stories as an analogy to TV stories.
You are saying that the Witchers, Dragon age Origin, Batman, Xcom to name a few, are very shallow and casual in the gameplay department?

Also Mass Effect is Known and Praised for its Story telling, that is the signature of Bioware games. Gameplay is just the cherry on top.

Also ever played the Sleeping Dogs? Asian protagonist, very well received in the west for a new IP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post


As I understand it, Final Fantasy XIII saga is just one bad decision after another.

Kojima is highly regarded because he's pretty badshit crazy and ballsy.

Exactly, Kojima is highly regarded because he's pretty badshit crazy and ballsy enough to break out of that JPOP mould.
__________________
deltaxxmintpie is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:18   Link #25
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
Well for one thing, JPop sells. Just like Boy Bands and sitcoms about nothing sell in the United States. There are simple and don't require the audiance to think all that much, which is what alot of people want from their entertainment. Something simple to pass the time, have a laugh, and turn off their brain after 8 hours of work.

That is also why lots of summer blockbuster movies from Hollywood are basically wall to wall explosions and one liners. Less thinking needed from the audiance who just wants to have a good time and not a deep think about anything.

For the Japanese, it seems that moe/slice of life comedy anime is equivalent to US Sitcoms in many ways.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:23   Link #26
Chaos2Frozen
:)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
Yes, the jersey shore is a pile of crap, but that doesn't disprove the fact that there is some genius of a show like House of Cards.
We're kinda going around in circles because this is where I would point out that Anime since produces some genius stuff like- and I have to take other people's word on this- Shin Sekai Yori.

Then I suspect you would bring up that there are more genius stuff in Western TV shows.

After which I would counter with the number and scale of shows being produced in the west really exceeds the number of Animes being produced by a handful of companies. So it really does come down to numbers, a bigger pool would allow for a higher chance of getting something good. Archon_Wing mentioned this in the previous page.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
I'm asking for a "JRPG" JRPG that has a very mature plot and characters, forget about the gameplay, I'm asking for a "JRPG" JRPG that appeals to adults.
Again, I like the Tales series and the Persona series.

SMT franchise in general seem to tackle certain mature subplots pretty well from what I've heard.

But "Mature" is a very vague term, unless by mature you mean sex and violence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaxxmintpie View Post
You are saying that the Witchers, Dragon age Origin, Batman, Xcom to name a few, are very shallow and casual in the gameplay department?
I honestly can't say anything about Witchers because I never played it.

XCOM and DAO... I'll give you that, those are pretty good.

Batman... Come on, it is a pretty easy game.
Chaos2Frozen is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:32   Link #27
deltaxxmintpie
Cake lover Cookie ninja
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
We're kinda going around in circles because this is where I would point out that Anime since produces some genius stuff like- and I have to take other people's word on this- Shin Sekai Yori.

.
I will try that anime out.

We will not go around in circle, because despite the possibility that you might perceive me as a bigoted westerner, this whole thread originate from my love and wish for Japanese media to move forward and expand (and the frustration that they are currently not). I LOVE it when the anime industry or the game industry pulls off surprises like death note or ghost in the shell or the souls series.

Those are the sort of things the Japanese industry needs to get a foothold in the west.

Because, lets be honest, despite the difference in perception towards what is "mature" or what is "cliche", not many people in the west wants JPOP boyband members as protagonists in their video games or a script that's sounds like its written for a power rangers movie.
__________________
deltaxxmintpie is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:33   Link #28
BaronNoir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
American animation like ''The Simpsons'', ''Family Guy'' and ''American Dad'' have reportedly budgets 3 times above top of the line anime (this, despite selling their blu-rays and DVDs sets at a price that allow people to purchase them without selling their kidneys...no, seriously, a whole season of those shows cost lest than one 4 episode Blu-ray !). It's not exactly cheap, and it take big ''backers'' to launch new shows.

This said, the Star Wars CGI show was quite good and more than a bit-animesque IMO, same for the upcoming Rebels.
BaronNoir is offline  
Old 2014-06-10, 22:59   Link #29
Konakaga
Yuri Moderator
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: FL, USA
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Konakaga Send a message via Skype™ to Konakaga
This thread is locked. It has gotten far offtopic and simply a place for him to rant about an opinion and frankly is something people have posted about numerous times and claimed for years when new series are still being made, but you like others just don't actually look since it's easier to complain.
__________________
Haruka & Yuu - Sakura TrickAvatar & Sig by TheEroKing
MAL(KagamiHiiragi)
Konakaga is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.