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Old 2014-06-28, 22:33   Link #881
MarkS00N
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To me, Wixoss is something comes from a person who disagree with the point that Madoka try to gives us: the necessity of sacrifice...

Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2014-06-29 at 18:18. Reason: added spoiler tags for entirety of comparison
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Old 2014-06-28, 22:53   Link #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS00N View Post
To me, Wixoss is something comes from a person who disagree with the point that Madoka try to gives us: the necessity of sacrifice...
Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2014-06-29 at 18:20. Reason: added spoiler tag for comparison
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Old 2014-06-28, 23:29   Link #883
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica:
Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2014-06-29 at 18:19. Reason: spoiler tag for comparison
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Old 2014-06-28, 23:51   Link #884
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Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica, reply to above:
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Old 2014-06-29, 00:21   Link #885
MarkS00N
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Spoiler for Comparison to Madoka Magica, reply to above:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2014-06-29 at 18:20. Reason: spoiler tag for comparison
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Old 2014-06-30, 23:40   Link #886
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Old 2014-07-01, 06:12   Link #887
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...Why am i filled with terror?
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Old 2014-07-01, 11:53   Link #888
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...Why am i filled with terror?
Because the Aki-lucky she's thinking of isn't the Aki-lucky you're hoping for.
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Old 2014-07-01, 13:17   Link #889
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
...Why am i filled with terror?
I can't give you an honest answer to this question without violating the TOS
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Old 2014-07-01, 19:59   Link #890
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Originally Posted by MarkS00N View Post
No, it is a sacrifice because Hitoe clearly said she is fine with losing 3 times to make Iona gets closer to her wish...
I disagree, and I'm going to use a scenario to explain why.

I think I have two tickets to a movie I want to see. By all accounts, both tickets look authentic to me, and both were given to me by a friend. I only need one ticket since I plan on going to the movie alone. A person clearly desperate to go to the same movie asks me if I could give him one of my two tickets. I decide to be charitable, and give him one of the two tickets, since I only need one.

Alas! I later discover that the ticket I kept was a forgery, while the one I gave away was legit.

Is this story making a good thematic argument against generosity/sacrifice?

Personally, I would say not. I would say it's making a thematic argument against fraud and forgery, as no problem would have arisen if not for the forgery.

Likewise, I see the same with Hitoe's situation here. After all, Hitoe would not so easily allow herself to lose that match if she knew the truth about wish-tainting before the match began. Likewise, I wouldn't have given my only good ticket away if I knew it was my only one.


Quote:
It is not,
No, it does undermine your interpretation. If Yuzuki wasn't willing to make a sacrifice for Hitoe's sake then it is highly unlikely that Hitoe re-achieves friendship. Yuzuki's decision to sacrifice for Hitoe's sake ultimately did more to help Hitoe than it did to hurt her. I honestly think you're completely off on this particular point.

And so you're not left with much, in my opinion. I really don't see much of a good thematic argument against personal sacrifice in WIXOSS thus far. Nor do I see much of a good thematic argument in favor of selfishness. Yuzuki's situation is far from ideal, and I find it very odd how some people seem to be losing sight of the massive downside here. Would you want to be stuck in a card without being able to interact with anybody except a small handful of Selectors? Would you want to lose your flesh-and-blood body to another person?

I mean, really now...

To argue that Yuzuki's current situation is "as perfect as possible" is frankly ridiculous. Her current situation is terrible.
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Old 2014-07-01, 23:01   Link #891
dniv
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I disagree, and I'm going to use a scenario to explain why.

I think I have two tickets to a movie I want to see. By all accounts, both tickets look authentic to me, and both were given to me by a friend. I only need one ticket since I plan on going to the movie alone. A person clearly desperate to go to the same movie asks me if I could give him one of my two tickets. I decide to be charitable, and give him one of the two tickets, since I only need one.

Alas! I later discover that the ticket I kept was a forgery, while the one I gave away was legit.

Is this story making a good thematic argument against generosity/sacrifice?

Personally, I would say not. I would say it's making a thematic argument against fraud and forgery, as no problem would have arisen if not for the forgery.

Likewise, I see the same with Hitoe's situation here. After all, Hitoe would not so easily allow herself to lose that match if she knew the truth about wish-tainting before the match began. Likewise, I wouldn't have given my only good ticket away if I knew it was my only one.




No, it does undermine your interpretation. If Yuzuki wasn't willing to make a sacrifice for Hitoe's sake then it is highly unlikely that Hitoe re-achieves friendship. Yuzuki's decision to sacrifice for Hitoe's sake ultimately did more to help Hitoe than it did to hurt her. I honestly think you're completely off on this particular point.

And so you're not left with much, in my opinion. I really don't see much of a good thematic argument against personal sacrifice in WIXOSS thus far. Nor do I see much of a good thematic argument in favor of selfishness. Yuzuki's situation is far from ideal, and I find it very odd how some people seem to be losing sight of the massive downside here. Would you want to be stuck in a card without being able to interact with anybody except a small handful of Selectors? Would you want to lose your flesh-and-blood body to another person?

I mean, really now...

To argue that Yuzuki's current situation is "as perfect as possible" is frankly ridiculous. Her current situation is terrible.
I do want to point out though that I agree that this show is trying to give a "better answer" to Madoka, at least from my POV. The main message I got from the end of season 1 is that thinking you can end everything with a wish is a stupid idea. People are ridiculously cynically cruel in this world and lies and misinformation, like the ones given to Ruu's Selector... end up distorting and breaking the wishes of Madoka. The premise is similar, but the message seems different. In Madoka, people were good, but there were "misunderstandings."

In Wixoss, people are assholes. I mean think about episode 5 how they treated their teacher when they wanted to meet Aki-lucky*. That was terrifying.

Sure, there are some nice people... but the world seems much darker than in Madoka, honestly. Misunderstanding is different from actual malice and hate. It doesn't feel real if the people getting mad aren't human, but it feels real if THEY ARE HUMAN. It feels very different to me, and I certainly like it more.

I especially like the way season 1 ended, and I'm also biased since this is J.C. staff and I'm happy it was rather good. I'm meh to Shaft usually... so I'm biased going into this comparison. I will say though that I thought the biggest difference between Madoka and Wixoss was that Madoka was sad while Wixoss pre-empted how people would interpret the world based on information they saw and tricked viewers into thinking exactly the wrong thing about what was going on and what would happen. That, and the *special effects opening* of episode 12 have so far made me like Wixoss far more in comparison. The only difference was the opening of Madoka... but an opening does not a series make..................,........................... .. unless it's by Fripside.
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Old 2014-07-03, 10:18   Link #892
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Originally Posted by dniv View Post
I do want to point out though that I agree that this show is trying to give a "better answer" to Madoka, at least from my POV. The main message I got from the end of season 1 is that thinking you can end everything with a wish is a stupid idea.
Why? If your universe has something that can grant wishes then there's nothing stupid about a carefully-worded and well-thought-out wish being very useful in the plot. And having an universe like that is no less legitimate than any other fantastical element in fiction.

Now WIXOSS' approach to wishes might be fine as well, but if you're going to have full-fledged magic in your universe, like Madoka Magica does, then it's only natural to have some plot points be resolved in a fashion that feels, well, magical.

To be fair to you, perhaps WIXOSS is aiming for a plot resolution with a bit more practical application in real life, which might be an edge in its favor from a thematic standpoint. Only time will tell, though.


Quote:
People are ridiculously cynically cruel in this world and lies and misinformation, like the ones given to Ruu's Selector... end up distorting and breaking the wishes of Madoka. The premise is similar, but the message seems different. In Madoka, people were good, but there were "misunderstandings."
Not everybody in Madoka Magica was nice. And even some who may have ended up nice were quite brutal and harsh at times, if not downright villainous. I really think you're selling Madoka Magica short with your arguments here.

I also think you might be misjudging RL people a bit. In my experience, people like Mami and Sayaka are no less common in real life than people like Aki-Lucky and Iona. So I don't see anything illegitimate or unrealistic about the sorts of characters you have in either Madoka Magica or WIXOSS.

Edit: I do agree with you on one key point thought. I think that WIXOSS is, so far at least, the darker show. So if, say, I ran across a new thread on the Suggestions subforum saying "Looking for cool, conceptually dark show", I'd have WIXOSS higher on my recommendation list than Madoka Magica.

Speaking personally, I've found over time that I don't care a great deal about dark vs. light in and of itself. I like shows that take themselves seriously, but that can come as dark as this show or as light as Tamayura. With Dark vs. Light, I tend to just prefer to avoid the extreme end on either side. Too much light is a wee bit too fluffy/saccharine for me, but too much dark just seems pointlessly depressing to me. WIXOSS is not that dark to me, thankfully.
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Old 2014-07-05, 09:37   Link #893
dniv
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Why? If your universe has something that can grant wishes then there's nothing stupid about a carefully-worded and well-thought-out wish being very useful in the plot. And having an universe like that is no less legitimate than any other fantastical element in fiction.

Now WIXOSS' approach to wishes might be fine as well, but if you're going to have full-fledged magic in your universe, like Madoka Magica does, then it's only natural to have some plot points be resolved in a fashion that feels, well, magical.

To be fair to you, perhaps WIXOSS is aiming for a plot resolution with a bit more practical application in real life, which might be an edge in its favor from a thematic standpoint. Only time will tell, though.




Not everybody in Madoka Magica was nice. And even some who may have ended up nice were quite brutal and harsh at times, if not downright villainous. I really think you're selling Madoka Magica short with your arguments here.

I also think you might be misjudging RL people a bit. In my experience, people like Mami and Sayaka are no less common in real life than people like Aki-Lucky and Iona. So I don't see anything illegitimate or unrealistic about the sorts of characters you have in either Madoka Magica or WIXOSS.

Edit: I do agree with you on one key point thought. I think that WIXOSS is, so far at least, the darker show. So if, say, I ran across a new thread on the Suggestions subforum saying "Looking for cool, conceptually dark show", I'd have WIXOSS higher on my recommendation list than Madoka Magica.

Speaking personally, I've found over time that I don't care a great deal about dark vs. light in and of itself. I like shows that take themselves seriously, but that can come as dark as this show or as light as Tamayura. With Dark vs. Light, I tend to just prefer to avoid the extreme end on either side. Too much light is a wee bit too fluffy/saccharine for me, but too much dark just seems pointlessly depressing to me. WIXOSS is not that dark to me, thankfully.
I mean, I agree with what you said after the edit. To be fair, I'm personally biased against Madoka since everyone spoiled the plot for me before I saw it, so the effect was much weaker than it normally would have been. Wixoss wasn't spoiled for me.

Also, I meant what you interpreted that Wixoss is the darker of the two shows, but thankfully not too dark. I do agree with you that people like that exist in real life, but the whole setting feels somewhat more ominous than the one in Madoka. From my PoV, it's the ending (which is completely in the odd minor key...) and the opening (which isn't quite as peppy as Madoka's...), especially once you know what the images from the opening are referring to (like what Aki-lucky is actually liked compared to the image of her skipping across the water...), that makes this more somber. I mean, the show itself feels more jaded (at least to me) in some way, but I enjoy it--I guess.

And what you got from what I was saying in the first part was also right: I was trying to say that I thought that this show was trying to give a resolution that was perhaps a bit more applicable to real life. I know it's silly, as in, the show doesn't need to have this. But, I did like how this makes the show feel more tangible to me...

Also, I acknowledge that Madoka is an excellent show; I'm just unfortunately one of those would-be fans that accidentally heard about it way too much before I saw it, so no matter how hard I try to be unbiased about it... my first impression makes me dislike it (at least a bit). I'm also just happy about Wixoss since J.C. staff is doing this, and since there's a second season (and I tend to like longer series, lol).

The other point I wanted to mention which I think I didn't explain clearly before, was that I liked Wixoss because it was building off of Madoka from my PoV. The way I see most media (or my idealized view of how I wish they were), is that when they tend to improve... they either come up with brand new ideas... or they build on older, excellent ideas by making the scenarios more complicated or throwing in some other dynamics. I see Wixoss as doing this to Madoka because of the twists as well as the existence of the second season.

Just based on the fact that I really enjoy Wixoss, I am sure that I'd have probably loved Madoka if I hadn't been biased before I saw it, but as it is, I prefer Wixoss more, at least right now. (This is why I don't rate shows on score lists if I don't feel like I'm qualified to rate them. )
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Old 2014-07-05, 12:40   Link #894
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Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. You should know that Madoka Magica is my all-time favorite anime show, so naturally it's a show that I can get pretty fired up about.

So our discussion is almost like a Star Wars fan and a Trekkie debating over those two famous franchises, lol.

Honestly, I do get and respect why you prefer WIXOSS. You've laid out your case well there, and I don't find your reasoning silly. I just wanted to defend my own favorite show, that's all.

And WIXOSS is definitely one of my favorite shows of the year. I definitely can't wait to watch more of it in the Fall.
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Old 2014-07-05, 13:51   Link #895
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My position in the Madoka vs WIXOSS debate is that I like both series alot, but so far I'm not liking WIXOSS quite as much as I liked Madoka. But seeing how much Madoka: Rebellion changed my opinion of the series as a whole (for the positive), I'm still waiting to see what WIXOSS has up its sleeves.

But I still maintain, as I have since the early pages of this thread, that it's silly to compare these two series. Does Mari Okada seem to have been heavily influenced by Sayaka's plotline in particular when envisaging this series? Absolutely. But she takes the premise in such a different direction that I think it's merely an inspiration. It's almost as if she saw that one aspect of the Madoka plot and thought, "this idea could be developed into a much larger aspect of a series". It doesn't in any way feel like a copy of Madoka to me, and frankly, I think the people who want to call WIXOSS a Madoka copy are taking an extremely superficial view of fiction.

I mean, the staff for both shows are completely different. People want to talk a lot about the difference between Gurobuchi and Okada, and that subject has already been covered a lot, but I think a more interesting comparison is between Sato and Shinbo. Sato is clearly nowhere near the level of repute as Shinbo, but he has been doing some really good work lately. I loved the direction in Steins;Gate and I thought the direction in WIXOSS was just as good. His spare, pragmatic, style is a pretty big contrast from the ornate beauty of Shinbo's works. It's kind of like the difference between Alfonso Cuaron and Guillermo del Toro.

Anyways, I've really enjoyed both series and eagerly await the second cour of WIXOSS. I honestly don't get why some people are so offended by two works being similar or inspired by each other. That's the way art works.
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Old 2014-07-06, 11:34   Link #896
Guido
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EPISODE 12.

I won't say good-bye to WIXOSS, because the story is far from over. Nonetheless, the twelfth episode gives closure to the "Infected" story arc, and yet while a few questions were answered there were new ones raised. Moreover, the mysteries have yet to be unraveled.

There was so much that happened between Ruko and Tama, that at first I got lost but grasped it. What I mean is that Iona and Ulith offered a bit of explanation that made me to realize why the ritual failed for Ruko and Tama; Ruko missed a condition, and an important one.

Indeed, she was ready to become a LRIG in order to free the other girls, including Yuzuki and Tama. But, it could make sense that she would have become one at expense of her friendship with Tama, and then regret it later. Though I suspect that Mayu alerted Tama on what Ruko was intending to do after winning the match likely because Mayu also wants to be with Tama, honestly, I can't stop believing that Mayu deliberately influenced Tama with the truth so as to make her reject Ruko's wish.
Nevertheless, what's important is that Tama doesn't want to be separated from Ruko at any expense; she wants to be together with Ruko, and the latter failed to understand Tamas' feelings and to took them into account in her resolve.
Unfortunately, at the end they got separated anyway, since Iona and Ulith successfully completed their ritual once Iona's last condition was met, and that last condition most likely involved Ruko and Tama to have triggered it.

Now, Ruko has Iona as her LRIG, Ulith's now in Iona's body to do as she pleases, and Tama's gone, at least until season two comes this autumn to unravel the core of mysteries; so that's now five series down for the spring 2014 anime season.
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Old 2014-07-24, 21:13   Link #897
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There is another Black LRIG name Umuru. She look pretty important. I wonder she will appear in the second season.
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Old 2014-08-03, 20:00   Link #898
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Umuru is the Main Key of Creation, hence she might be the one who create this "messed up" system. I think she open the doors in the white room and maybe other places. I think she is one of those regret creating such a foul "wish" system and want to fix it. I think she and Ruko are connected somehow. If the season reveal that she and Ruko are one of the same, that will blow my mind.

I also wouldn't put down the fact that she is the "key" to save Tama.

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Old 2014-08-04, 13:35   Link #899
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From what I've seen Iona doesn't desire anything grand
She's interesting, but she's also not a very complex character
She's not holding any hidden cards.. pun intended

she just wants excitement and thrill and most importantly.. drama
I'd say her wish was granted twice
First when she had that finale with Ruuko
2nd when she became Ruuko's Lrig
and you just she'll continue to enjoy this
she has everything to gain and not much to lose from all of this

And that's why her interaction with Ruuko in S2 is going to be gold
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Old 2014-08-16, 07:12   Link #900
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PV

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