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Old 2006-04-05, 12:26   Link #1
wavey_davey
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SO, were HiME and Otome connected?

So now that the series has ended... do you think they are connected other than having the same characters?

Personally I do think they are... and I am hoping we will get further information on this. My view is that Seears continued their development of the fake HiME which eventually led to the Otome system, but to control this they included a master, which was probably meant to keep things in line.

Also.. do you really think they migrated from Earth? Maybe the Harmonium erased peoples memories.. did Mikoto say that it had once before destroyed the world? And we did see Fuka Gakuen in the sea... all this makes my head hurt

Lets see what we all think!
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Old 2006-04-05, 12:54   Link #2
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavey_davey
So now that the series has ended... do you think they are connected other than having the same characters?

Personally I do think they are... and I am hoping we will get further information on this. My view is that Seears continued their development of the fake HiME which eventually led to the Otome system, but to control this they included a master, which was probably meant to keep things in line.

Also.. do you really think they migrated from Earth? Maybe the Harmonium erased peoples memories.. did Mikoto say that it had once before destroyed the world? And we did see Fuka Gakuen in the sea... all this makes my head hurt

Lets see what we all think!
I just think to myself that all the HiME elements presented, including those from the last episode, were to pay homage to the Mai-HiME series.

If what you said turns out to be truth, then we'll have some bottleneck in the story regarding SEARRS involvement in the Mai-Otome world and the HiME festival.

At the end of Mai-HiME's first arc, the SEARRS committee commented that though failed still will have another chance in about 300 years.

The HiME festival takes place every three-hundred years. MH Mashiro and MH Nagi commented that though the Obsidian Lord was defeated, evil itself never ends.

Then would be logical to assume based from My-HiME universe for Mai-Otome:

War of the Twelve Kingdoms = Next HiME festival of that generation ...?

Harmonium = The Obsidian Lord reborned ...?

If Mai-Otome really takes place into the future of My-HiME, then the War of the Twelve Kings, witnessing the birth of the first Otome, happened three-hundred years after the end of My-HiME. That timeline in-betwen those two events would have given enough momentum for humanity to have further developed technology and venture into outer space for planet colonization.

Now in the current timeline of Mai-Otome it is explained that the Twelve Kingdom War happened three-hundred years ago.

Harmonium's second awakening = Next HiME festival for the current generation ...?

The speculated data I have posted suggests that Mai-Otome takes place at least six-hundred years into the future of My-HiME.
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Old 2006-04-05, 13:33   Link #3
PastPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
The HiME festival takes place every three-hundred years. MH Mashiro and MH Nagi commented that though the Obsidian Lord was defeated, evil itself never ends.

Then would be logical to assume based from My-HiME universe for Mai-Otome:

War of the Twelve Kingdoms = Next HiME festival of that generation ...?

Harmonium = The Obsidian Lord reborned ...?

If Mai-Otome really takes place into the future of My-HiME, then the War of the Twelve Kings, witnessing the birth of the first Otome, happened three-hundred years after the end of My-HiME. That timeline in-betwen those two events would have given enough momentum for humanity to have further developed technology and venture into outer space for planet colonization.

Now in the current timeline of Mai-Otome it is explained that the Twelve Kingdom War happened three-hundred years ago.

Harmonium's second awakening = Next HiME festival for the current generation ...?

The speculated data I have posted suggests that Mai-Otome takes place at least six-hundred years into the future of My-HiME.
I would consider at least 900 years as more likely since whatever happened that forced them to leave Earth probably took place during a festival. At any rate, even if this is an Alternate Universe, something similar to what happened in Mai HiME occured in the past,
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Old 2006-04-05, 14:00   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Now in the current timeline of Mai-Otome it is explained that the Twelve Kingdom War happened three-hundred years ago.
didn't the twelve war kingdom happen 50 years ago? Maria was there, wasn't she?

I don't think the war going on in the present of Mai Otome could be seen as the carnival...
The carnival was meant to select the HiME that was most fit (most powerful in fact) to become the new Suishou no HiME. She would then have the doors of Fuuka open to her, meet Kokuyou no Kimi who would replace the last Suishou no HiME by the new one. This would stop the descent on the HiME star on the earth, saving it. The renewed power inside Suishou no HiME’s crystal (and prison) would keep the star at bay for 300 years.
They’re simply fighting a war between countries.

Also, they made it clear at the end of Mai HiME that the HiME star was destroyed and wouldn’t come back.

But. Searrs foundation could very well be responsible for this. I speculated countless times that Otomes could very well be an adaptation of what in the HiME manga Searrs created; Princesses. Girls with the powers of HiMEs that activates through an earring. The star in Otome could in fact be a machine created by Searrs (Artemis, maybe?); that’s why Miyu could hack it. Seeing the star was destroyed, Searrs could have tried to gain power by creating Otomes, inspired by the star process.
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Old 2006-04-05, 14:17   Link #5
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didn't the twelve war kingdom happen 50 years ago? Maria was there, wasn't she?
The 12 Kingdom War happened 300 years ago, Fumi stopped it. The one happened 50 years ago, where Miss Maria's oneesama died, was the Dragon King War
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Old 2006-04-05, 14:25   Link #6
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Originally Posted by PastPrime
I would consider at least 900 years as more likely since whatever happened that forced them to leave Earth probably took place during a festival. At any rate, even if this is an Alternate Universe, something similar to what happened in Mai HiME occured in the past,
I recall in episode 15 that Sergey told Arika about a brief story of the ancestors who colonized the planet that came from Earth, however, the story never mentions if Earth was struck by a Holocaust or any other sort of Armaggedon.

Though discrepancies are created because I think that the events surrounding the HiME festival supposedly involved only the Earth, and the HiME star was destroyed at the end of My-HiME.

I can only speculate that some surviving HiME's or descendants of the HiME were among the passengers in the colonizing ship that brought them to the Mai-Otome Planet.

And does anyone knows if the Mai-Otome planet's name is ever disclosed?
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Old 2006-04-05, 18:11   Link #7
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I think its Earl.. or something like that..

But why was Fuka Academy on the Otome planet?
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Old 2006-04-05, 18:53   Link #8
BigPrime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
I recall in episode 15 that Sergey told Arika about a brief story of the ancestors who colonized the planet that came from Earth, however, the story never mentions if Earth was struck by a Holocaust or any other sort of Armaggedon.

Though discrepancies are created because I think that the events surrounding the HiME festival supposedly involved only the Earth, and the HiME star was destroyed at the end of My-HiME.

I can only speculate that some surviving HiME's or descendants of the HiME were among the passengers in the colonizing ship that brought them to the Mai-Otome Planet.

And does anyone knows if the Mai-Otome planet's name is ever disclosed?
I believe it's called "Earl".

The way I think it happened is something like this:

Following the last HiME Carnival, the Searrs continued their research into manipulation of higher-order matter (HiME, Elements, Childs/Orphans/Slaves). Likely around the time she grew to adulthood, Alyssa Searrs returned from Japan to claim her place in the Searrs hierarchy, with the reprogrammed (Merciful) Miyu at her side. Eventually (within Alyssa's lifetime), a faction of the Searrs created the Z-type HiME, the Otome. Alyssa, with her involvement in the Carnival likely thought the Otome were still trapped within that "cruel cage" the destined HiME were freed from, but was unable to do anything about.

When Earl was colonized (possibly as a result of Otome-combat destroying Earth?), Miyu and descendents of Alyssa went there and the technology of the Otome was brought with them. It seems Alyssa's last wish to Miyu was to free the Otome by reprogramming the Administar (a task she took her sweet time acomplishing, over 300 years). It's possible the Searrs sold the idea of the Otome as a means of limiting the casualties of warfare, but then again, so was the machine gun (Maxim of Maxim-gun fame thought his weapon would be so terrible as to scare nations into never making war again). It's likely that never happened and Otome only made the wars worse. That also seems to be the case with the War of 12 Kings. Humanity managed to destroy its new home within a generation of finding it.

Out of that, the Otome descended from Fumi (who seems to have been the cause of the ultimate holocaust of the Harmonium, turning the Pure White Diamond black through despair) established themselves as a distinct order in order to carry out that goal, taking the burden of war onto their shoulders and theirs alone. This limited the scope of the wars (the War of the Dragon Lord likely affected few beyond the Otome and the nobles they served, earning a horrific reputation among their circles but probably almsot forgotten outside them), but did not end them. The reason it did not end them was because the Otome did not stand up for themselves at all. Instead of being a bulwark against war, they simply became pawns to be used by the powerful in their ambition.

Things look like they'll change, though. For better or worse. Miyu changed the system and it's likely that the Otome are in for a new beginning. It's likely that Mashiro's words to Laura Bianchi and Rosaly Claudelle will echo for a long time to come. War *will* likely return to the common people, much as Nagi intended, if the Otome are not careful, and they could easily be demonized as oppressors or mass murderers should they ever fight normal humans or bee seen as forcing their will upon the nations. At the same time, they're capable of guiding the creation of a new golden age of peace and prosperity. That's a difficult road to follow, but I think they've got a good set of Five Columns to set out on that road, just as Wind Bloom has a good queen and a good Royal Otome to set out their own course.
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Old 2006-04-06, 10:17   Link #9
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thats a brilliant theory! and one similar to what i was thinking. It would also link it to the title.. Mai Z Hime.. and new type of hime
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Old 2006-04-06, 11:05   Link #10
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I think people are just overanalyzing this as this is nothing more than homages to the original series much like we have the same characters being carried over from Mai Hime.

We saw Alyssa in a flashback in 24 having tea with someone else with Miyu (Who has a different operating system) on the same planet.

I would of course accept that perhaps OTOME takes place centuries after HIME but seeing Alyssa I'm a little skeptical, especially since their on a different planet as well (If they have cataloges of various organisms comparing with organisms dating back to this century on Earth, then surely their on a different planet, they also have recorded information about the colonization). Much like the similar equipment used (Like that shot for toxins and such), their all similar or re-used.
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Old 2006-04-06, 11:15   Link #11
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
I think people are just overanalyzing this as this is nothing more than homages to the original series much like we have the same characters being carried over from Mai Hime.

We saw Alyssa in a flashback in 24 having tea with someone else with Miyu (Who has a different operating system) on the same planet.
This is exactly what I posted as my first entry for this thread; was the first option.

This is something that I have no doubts about and unanimously agreed. The HiME elements showcased and introduced in Mai-Otome are nothing more but to pay homage to the previous series.

However, I gave an added option to follow on with the thread, because many people here won't accept or be satisfied with that conclusion.

A founded and logical explanation must come up to convince them that the HiME elements shown in a literal sense hint towards a continuity in dispute among the two shows that has yet to be orderly established.

The significance that those elements played in Mai-Otome has literal connotations and not metaphorical ones for them.
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Old 2006-04-07, 08:19   Link #12
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Although it's also possible the creators threw in a bunch of cameo appearances and just let people think what they will of it, not intending any connection.

I remembered watching Haibane Renmai and marveled at the symbolism and how deep it was, until the creators pretty much admitted they were going for style over substance and didn't really have any idea what they were doing in terms of a solid plot.

That's sort of the difference between East and West. A lot of the anime (that I've seen) are more focused about conquering oneself and the importance/power of emotions. It's the Western style of entertainment that prefers a solid backstory (think of Star Wars...all that backhistory, Tolkien...alot of focus on lore, noting events and names, but what *really happens*--aka the emotions from the point of view of the individuals--are lost. In the flip side, it seems like solid discernable plot is glossed over in anime in favor of "going with the flow/emotions" and massive plot holes more or less ensue naturally.
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Old 2006-04-07, 09:11   Link #13
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Simple opinion: No. If it takes THIS much speculation for the "sequel" suggestion to make sense, then I would wonder: why did they even bother trying to tie the 2 series together? Big chunks of information inbetween(if they are indeed related directly) missing, and alot of contradictions (Miyu changed from multiple to merciful, Mikoto becoming a crystal hime...).

I agree with Guido: its more of a cameo/homage to Mai Hime than anything else: In MH, the OL got killed and the carnival for crowning new Crystal Himes stopped (last one being Mashiro). Yet, now Mikoto supposedly became one? Anything like "Searrs might have revived the Hime star and restarted the carnival" is nothing more than speculation, NOT official explanation.
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Old 2006-04-07, 18:32   Link #14
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Originally Posted by astrallionheart
I remembered watching Haibane Renmai and marveled at the symbolism and how deep it was, until the creators pretty much admitted they were going for style over substance and didn't really have any idea what they were doing in terms of a solid plot.
Haibane Renmei wasn't about style over substance. If anything, it was very understated and character driven. The plot was very solid, but the first few episodes had to set up the characters before it took that dark turn halfway in. Abe pretty much knew how it was going to go, he had already started the story in a doujinshi when a friend of his asked to make it into an anime. The budget was tight and the crew was mostly friends and family, plus they had to make it on a short time frame. So Abe drew the script up in a few hours, and worked out the details as the show was being created. The world and how it works were never meant to be explained, but that is why the fans have created some pretty amazing discussions about the show. How did the characters get there, where do they go when they leave, what's beyond the walls, etc. This prompted a response from the creators when asked these questions with a response to the effect of "we didn't make this for fans to obsess over". I'm paraphrasing that, but I think it's close. Abe simply created a world and story and put it out there, and decided to let fans come to thier own conclusions.

I agree with you on east/west story differences. Western audiences like to have things explained, with a focus on lore and backstory, to have solid conclusions to the plot, and don't really like it when they have to think about things that aren't explained. Eastern stories tend to focus more on characters, leaving aspects of the world and plot unexplained but giving enough for fans to think about how it all ties together. Often eastern stories don't end with all the loose ends tied up, which can frustrate the western viewer who is used to having stories explained, loose ends tied up, and have a nice big "The End" when the credits roll.

A lot of Otome was left unexplained, but when I think about it, Hime had alot unexplained too. The connections between the two were planted for a reason I think, but unless it's explained by Sunrise somehow, they are nothing more than nods to fans for now. At least the main plots were tied up, which gives them room for more seasons/ovas/movies, so they can use the unexplained stuff for future stories.
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Old 2006-04-12, 09:25   Link #15
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I like BigPrime's theory. It is almost (if not totally) identical as mine

But there are few things which are disturbing my mind:

1. What is Fuuka Gakuen doing on the bottom of the lake?
2. Miyu mentions, that Mikoto is Crystal Princess (Suishou Hime or HiME) with "the power to materialize higher order matter, type two". What does it mean? My ideas are that:

a) Otome Mikoto and HiME Mikoto are the same person, who won last HiME carnival and gained immortality
b) This Mikoto is another Mikoto (Mikoto's granddoughter or something) who won... the next HiME carnival?

There isn't much sense in these theories, but... has anyone better ideas? I'd gladly listen to them

Oh, and about that Alyssa that Miyu saw in ep. 24.
I am sure that it _wasn't_ Alyssa, because Miyu is talking about "those who inheritted Alyssa's blood". I think that she, as well as Arika, is an descendant of Alyssa.
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Old 2006-04-12, 12:54   Link #16
moonlit archives
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Originally Posted by AceMan
a) Otome Mikoto and HiME Mikoto are the same person, who won last HiME carnival and gained immortality
b) This Mikoto is another Mikoto (Mikoto's granddoughter or something) who won... the next HiME carnival?
What if she's type two because at that time, there was also Mai who met with Kokuyou no Kimi?
In the Otome manga, Mai is in the crystal the same way Mashiro was. The Mai who wakes up in Otome is the same one as HiME and Mikoto recognizes her and is oh-so happy to see her.
manga ch.31 p.18
manga ch.31 p.19
manga ch.31 p.20
manga ch.32 p.01
manga ch.32 p.02
If you think about it, 11 HiMEs were brought down and lost their powers. But there were still two other HiMEs left... where only one should be remaining. The one who sacrifices herself to become Suishou no HiME. But then, what happens to the one who still have powers?
I'm starting to wonder if the HiME powers don't extend your life... See, usually in the carnival, the only HiME remaining with powers lived 300 years after all.
(it would explain how HiME mashiro is STILL alive too in otome manga x_X)

oh, and here for Fumi... she's the same one as in HiME, so the pillars can't materialize. She woke up. see?
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Old 2006-04-12, 13:33   Link #17
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Oh, and about that Alyssa that Miyu saw in ep. 24.
I am sure that it _wasn't_ Alyssa, because Miyu is talking about "those who inheritted Alyssa's blood". I think that she, as well as Arika, is an descendant of Alyssa.
Take a look again, it's Alyssa.

Not to mention one can argue that when she's talking about descendant, then it goes to Arika. When she talks about Alyssa, it goes from birdy to that girl.

BTW, isn't the manga going in a different direction than the anime? Like really different? So in the manga it would be connected but the anime it's just all spectulation that crazy people are taking as facts.
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Old 2006-04-12, 14:20   Link #18
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
BTW, isn't the manga going in a different direction than the anime? Like really different? So in the manga it would be connected but the anime it's just all spectulation that crazy people are taking as facts.
*shrugs*
Why are you being so agressive? Even if it is going in whole different directions, there are too many connections that would help us solve what was left unexplained in the anime to ignore them.
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Old 2006-04-12, 15:40   Link #19
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To each his own I say. Like someone said before, unless Sunrise throws in some kind of movie/ova to cover this, its all going to be speculation. It is no different then when people argue over which character from different series is stronger, if they were to fight. Some are going to support one way and some the other.

So, what is my point; nothing really, I just felt like saying that
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Old 2006-04-12, 16:32   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceMan
I like BigPrime's theory. It is almost (if not totally) identical as mine

But there are few things which are disturbing my mind:

1. What is Fuuka Gakuen doing on the bottom of the lake?
Beats me, did they take Fuuka Gakuen on the spaceship that leaved earth or what?
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