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Old 2014-06-22, 18:31   Link #81
agoodcupoftea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan View Post
True but that's the common use it's not like anime is the only word that's happened with salsa in Spanish just means sauce but that's not how it's used in America. And it's not like there was no reason to try and distinguish it from it's western counterparts.

As for the topic all I can say is I hope not I love RWBY but other attempts by larger studios such as with Avatar the Last Airbender it just seem so forced that it was painful to watch.
No, it's also a type of music. I speak Spanish, too. Yes, I see your point (salsa de marinara vs crisps w salsa) but it actually has a couple meanings. Salsa the music is great too. Rec: Celia Cruz.

RWBY?

*crosses arms* I liked Avatar...

(Boondocks is still above Avatar in my fave Western animes)

Seeing as a cartoon, the word began life to mean all those political caricature things in centuries past...you could call Boondocks comic a cartoon of sorts...

...did I ever mention I love linguistics...?
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Old 2014-06-22, 22:45   Link #82
GundamFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodcupoftea View Post
No, it's also a type of music. I speak Spanish, too. Yes, I see your point (salsa de marinara vs crisps w salsa) but it actually has a couple meanings. Salsa the music is great too. Rec: Celia Cruz.
I forgot about salsa the music/dance sense.


Quote:
RWBY?

*crosses arms* I liked Avatar...

(Boondocks is still above Avatar in my fave Western animes)
Have you not seen RWBY? It's really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGiE10zNQM

I wouldn't say Avatar was bad it just seemed as if they were trying way to hard to work in anime stuff at times and Boondocks is great.


Quote:
Seeing as a cartoon, the word began life to mean all those political caricature things in centuries past...you could call Boondocks comic a cartoon of sorts...

...did I ever mention I love linguistics...?
Well that makes sense about there origins considering the term political cartoon and all. Boondocks could be consider an evolution of sorts from it since it's the same concept a bit different media.
And you loving linguistics gee I would have never ever guessed.
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Old 2014-06-23, 14:40   Link #83
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by agoodcupoftea View Post
Although, growing up in Japan, on coming stateside in the 90s, the EN definition of "anime" always struck me as a bit odd, seeing as the word really is just short for animation, and yes, Darkwing Duck and Ren and Stimpy are anime to me and anyone from Japan.
Borrowed words do not necessarily have the same meaning or wide meaning as they have in the language they come from.

"Mouse" is a word that is used in several countries (Japan included) but only in English speaking countries it refers to an animal.

"Chef" is just french for "Chief" and doesn't necessarily have something to do with cooking, similarly the most common meaning of "Maestro" in Italian is "teacher" and it's not restricted to music.

Anime is a general term for animation in Japan, but it refers specifically to Japanese animation in English and other languages, because else there wouldn't even be a need to borrow a foreign word to begin with, there is already a native word for that.

The same way "Manhwa" in Korea is a general term that refers to manga, comics and even anime and cartoons. There is no need to include such word in the English vocabulary unless it serves the purpose of defining a specific kind of comic (i.e. Korean comics).
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Old 2014-06-24, 13:21   Link #84
cyth
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Japanese tend to call western animation and Japanese art animation "animation" and Japanese nerd animation "anime." There are exceptions to these, but that's the main gist.

Truth be told, there's nothing to be purist about here. That I think Avatar: The Last Airbender doesn't qualify to get the "anime" label slapped on it doesn't mean I don't think it's an excellent cartoon that outshines most anime in storytelling, action and animation.

Anime fans just love to adopt semi-related non-Japanese media properties and make it part of "anime fandom". It's a sign of anime fans growing as people, branching out of anime, developing their tastes, while trying to keep the nuanced exclusivity that anime fandom supposedly brings. Damned be anyone who thinks we're spending less time on Japanese cartoons because personal issues.
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Old 2014-07-03, 13:14   Link #85
sunchips18
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Originally Posted by Esclair View Post
I specialized in Computer Graphics/Vision when I went to grad school (although I ended up not doing pursuing it) so I have at least a breadth view of the subject. My advisor actually won a Technical Oscars for a paper he wrote in 1987, which introduced a lot of CG techniques that was used in modern films like the Harry Potter movies and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. So I got a pretty good view of what the graphics academics were working on just by studying under him.
Oh wow. That's certainly interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 2014-07-11, 15:36   Link #86
agoodcupoftea
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Originally Posted by GundamFan View Post
Have you not seen RWBY? It's really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGiE10zNQM

I wouldn't say Avatar was bad it just seemed as if they were trying way to hard to work in anime stuff at times and Boondocks is great.




Well that makes sense about there origins considering the term political cartoon and all. Boondocks could be consider an evolution of sorts from it since it's the same concept a bit different media.
And you loving linguistics gee I would have never ever guessed.
Wow, that is awesome. Animation wise, it's kind of "Panty-and-Stocking-vs.-Samurai-Jack-The-MMORPG." An interesting animation style, but it does not grate at my senses (as does One Piece, eg) and I think I will keep watching this. Thank You.

I gotta admit, though, I was waiting to see what RWBY stood for.

Yeah, they were really trying, but imho, it was enjoyable overall.

That is a very good point-the Boondocks as the evolution of the cartoon in its purest sense of the word.

TBH, if I didn't have what I call "Red Ranger Syndrome" I prob would have chosen linguistic field career. Prob woulda worked better, too. Unlike social work, I'm sure they hire ahahaha, oh, it's not that funny.

Concerning your username, did I already mention to you I'm running a Gundam Multimedia proj and still looking to fill slots?

If I have, pls forgive me. I have a neuropathic disorder which, aside from causing pain, does also cause short term-> long term memory encoding failures. I wrote this right after watching RWBY to thank you for showing me, and forgot to check to see whether I had or not before switching to the reply screen.
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Old 2014-07-12, 12:35   Link #87
agoodcupoftea
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The big problem is the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ationAgeGhetto Only Disney movies (not the serieals) seem to surmount this.

The Animation Age Ghettto combined with the Western idea of treating children like pets means that most animated serials are going to have about as much hard work put into them as curry from a box (aka lazy dad curry)- they assume kids don't need good shows or logical storylines, so they just throw out the cheapest crap they can to get the highest profit margin- not like adults, the only ppl to require effort in their entertainment would ever watch anything animated, rt?

Recently, it's begun to break- not only indie media on youtube, but within the 21st century, we've had toons for teens like the aforementioned Batman serie, Static Shock and X Men:Evolutions, as well as CN's Adult Swim, with The Boondocks, as I said, Ace Ventura Bros., and the Claymation Robot Chicken, etc.

But with AS Toons, I think the assumption might be that basment-dwellers are the only ones watching *scratches head*

The toons for teens was a 90s thing started by MTV(Daria, Beavis and Butthead, etc.), but I live in a reception black hole and don't have actual TV (I have the appliance, a CRT type at that, it just relegated to video/dvd and gaming), so I can't say if it's still a thing or not.

But overall, in the mainstream, the assumption is still in the West that only young people watch animation, and don't require quality or actual story. (Yes, Pokemon has TR every episode, but there is still some semblance of a progressive plot. Doraemon even does, and it's aimed at 2-5y.o., albeit the plot is less involved.

Remember, though, that the East sees both animation and children in a better light.

The thing is, the West ties animation to children, who they liken to pets.

In the large picture, it's a multi-fold problem.

We have to divorce these three concepts, or not only will we be unlikely to see the West realise animation's full potential, but the children=pets has borne helicopter-parenting, which, as someone at the beginning of the Millenial gen raised by granparents born in Taisho and Early Showa, who didn't do that, has had and continues to have an adverse effect on the world.

I believe, I brushed on this before, but even if I did, I want to expand it and really just put this out there.

I also have Fibromyalgia, which causes random memory encoding failures, so that's why I question whether I did or not)
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Last edited by agoodcupoftea; 2014-07-12 at 12:38. Reason: Aplogising bc some of this may have been said before.
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Old 2014-07-14, 14:05   Link #88
sunchips18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodcupoftea View Post
The big problem is the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ationAgeGhetto Only Disney movies (not the serieals) seem to surmount this.

The Animation Age Ghettto combined with the Western idea of treating children like pets means that most animated serials are going to have about as much hard work put into them as curry from a box (aka lazy dad curry)- they assume kids don't need good shows or logical storylines, so they just throw out the cheapest crap they can to get the highest profit margin- not like adults, the only ppl to require effort in their entertainment would ever watch anything animated, rt?

Recently, it's begun to break- not only indie media on youtube, but within the 21st century, we've had toons for teens like the aforementioned Batman serie, Static Shock and X Men:Evolutions, as well as CN's Adult Swim, with The Boondocks, as I said, Ace Ventura Bros., and the Claymation Robot Chicken, etc.

But with AS Toons, I think the assumption might be that basment-dwellers are the only ones watching *scratches head*

The toons for teens was a 90s thing started by MTV(Daria, Beavis and Butthead, etc.), but I live in a reception black hole and don't have actual TV (I have the appliance, a CRT type at that, it just relegated to video/dvd and gaming), so I can't say if it's still a thing or not.

But overall, in the mainstream, the assumption is still in the West that only young people watch animation, and don't require quality or actual story. (Yes, Pokemon has TR every episode, but there is still some semblance of a progressive plot. Doraemon even does, and it's aimed at 2-5y.o., albeit the plot is less involved.

Remember, though, that the East sees both animation and children in a better light.

The thing is, the West ties animation to children, who they liken to pets.

In the large picture, it's a multi-fold problem.

We have to divorce these three concepts, or not only will we be unlikely to see the West realise animation's full potential, but the children=pets has borne helicopter-parenting, which, as someone at the beginning of the Millenial gen raised by granparents born in Taisho and Early Showa, who didn't do that, has had and continues to have an adverse effect on the world.

I believe, I brushed on this before, but even if I did, I want to expand it and really just put this out there.

I also have Fibromyalgia, which causes random memory encoding failures, so that's why I question whether I did or not)
Hmm...that's actually a very well thought out argument. I do agree that we need to separate those lines of thought, or we're going to go nowhere.
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Old 2014-07-15, 20:41   Link #89
bhl88
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This is probably why anime or Japanese animation is popular now...
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Old 2014-07-16, 12:24   Link #90
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodcupoftea View Post
The big problem is the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ationAgeGhetto Only Disney movies (not the serieals) seem to surmount this.
I think that not even Disney's animated movies escape from the ghetto. Adults watch them with the excuse that they need to go to the theaters with their kids.

Those that truly seem to defy this are recent 3D movies, however they're still tied to the general idea that they must be "funny".


There's then the fact that live action series have a very florid market in the west. Suppose an author has some kind of fantastic story (not comedy) in mind and wants to make it in a serialized form for the TV and later DVD/BD releases.

The very same plot could be seen as the basis for a successful anime in Japan, but it's unlikely that it would be turned into animation rather than a live action series in the west.

Animation in the past had the advantage of allowing for extremely unrealistic scenario with minimal expenses, but with the recent surge of hyper-realistic 3D CGI even that advantage is lost (though one would begin to wonder if series that are considered live action like "Games of Thrones" aren't in fact well disguised hybrids).
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Old 2014-08-10, 12:18   Link #91
Cruachan
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Afro Samurai does a really good job of blending Eastern and Western themes to create a pretty BA series. Samurai Champloo accomplishes the same. There are tons of anime that have western settings especially in the fantasy genre, so there's no reason western cartoons couldn't successfully adapt a style or setting from eastern media. Western anime-style cartoons can definitely become common, as long as they appeal to western markets and use regional humor. I never found Japanese humor in anime to be all that funny, mostly because humor is a very localized thing, so if American cartoons try to emulate Japanese humor, it'd be like converting something twice, it just becomes nonsense. Still, if the Italians can make the best Westerns then certainly Americans can make good, successful anime.

Last edited by Cruachan; 2014-08-10 at 12:31.
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Old 2014-08-30, 03:04   Link #92
solomon
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Originally Posted by sunchips18 View Post
Hello all,

Recently, another question has been on my mind. Before I ask, I must make one thing clear so that this doesn't turn into a flame war. I consider anime more of an art-style as opposed to an animation of Japanese origin. You can agree or disagree with that statement, but whatever you prefer to call it, do you think that it could do well?

Personally, I think that it is a bit "iffy" at best. There have been attempts at it before. The Last Air Bender is one example (of which I personally enjoy). A lot of anime fans tend to criticize it because it "tries to hard to be an anime." Personally, that opinion kind of gets on my nerves a little, but that is totally irrelevant.

I think that part of the charm of anime is just how "Japanese" it is. I don't exactly know if that makes sense, but I can't properly describe it. If an anime were to ever be made (and were to take place in) the US, it wouldn't feel very anime-like. I'd be willing to give it a chance, but I know that there are a few purists who would dismiss it in a heartbeat.

So, what do you think?

Thanks!
Problem is, people put too much hype on aping Japanese visual cartoon language in an attempt to make it edgy and fashionable.

The US and European game industry has evicerated Japanese game market share in the states by providing adult themes and stories in a WESTERN style and made bank.

US Animation has come a long way since the dog days of Action for Childrens Televison Hell (mid 60s to late 80s) but we still have this thing against drama. For some reason even with the big budget CGI and the edgy adult comedies, nobody thinks we can pull off drama. We've been doing it in comics for years now.

You don't need any Japanese visual styles, you just need a good story.

Sadly, suits who run cartoon houses don't believe in dramatic power of cartoons so, yea don't get your hopes up.

Maybe as the indie animation route manages to use the internet like indie games have made rounds on mobile and console internet networks, we will see a real breakthrough. There actually IS some hope then I guess.
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Old 2014-09-12, 18:00   Link #93
sunchips18
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Problem is, people put too much hype on aping Japanese visual cartoon language in an attempt to make it edgy and fashionable.

The US and European game industry has evicerated Japanese game market share in the states by providing adult themes and stories in a WESTERN style and made bank.

US Animation has come a long way since the dog days of Action for Childrens Televison Hell (mid 60s to late 80s) but we still have this thing against drama. For some reason even with the big budget CGI and the edgy adult comedies, nobody thinks we can pull off drama. We've been doing it in comics for years now.

You don't need any Japanese visual styles, you just need a good story.

Sadly, suits who run cartoon houses don't believe in dramatic power of cartoons so, yea don't get your hopes up.

Maybe as the indie animation route manages to use the internet like indie games have made rounds on mobile and console internet networks, we will see a real breakthrough. There actually IS some hope then I guess.
Yeah, I do agree with you there. It's not the art style that makes an anime, it's the story. That's something that a lot of western-made cartoons seem to be missing.
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