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Old 2006-04-05, 19:51   Link #21
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragweed
Interesting that you said that. At first, I would have to agree with you. One Piece starts out slow and the arcs go through a process of building until the climax of the arc, while Naruto has more fights and instant action.

But then I have to disagree. I think Naruto relies too heavily on cliffhangers and doesn't focus on the action <i>enough</i>. Lately the fights in Naruto have relied too much on face shots, "........." panels, and second-by-second. One Piece has more diologue and action per panel. In fact, the latest fight chapter of OP has had a grand total of '1' profile panels (a panel of a character thinking with no thought bubbles or action), while Naruto had 10. =/ Nothing really happens that much anymore! I think that's why there's been so much filler going on lately.

But anyway, I think Naruto is more popular because it's a typical anime with bishies and powerups all that. And angst, loads and loads or angst.
You might be right about the latest chapters, but still in general Naruto has a sufficient action/cliffhanger level that will more-or-less keep you excited. Also having more action does not always mean a good thing for everybody, especially if the action scenes take longer than expected. In One Piece, if there will be a fight, in many cases all the main characters are involved in that fight (and usually more than once). Luffy might be given a big portion of that, but the others do not lag behind much. That is expected since I believe most of the fans would enjoy to see the fights from all the other character's at similar level (since all use different types of fighting skills). Also, the fights in One Piece seem to be more circumstantial than the fights in Naruto, thereby, allowing for more focusing in Naruto.

Anyway, it is not easy to guess the general point of view, since anywhere you dig you observe another difference that can directly affect personal opinion.
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:07   Link #22
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
(DBZ) Funny like One Piece is how?
How bout a main character (who isn't the brightest lightbulb) that eats everything in sight and is a supreme slob... Eating anything that exists no matter how filthy or grotesque it is which is the cause of many hysterical moments...Goku=Luffy

Or maybe a bossy girl who has a good head on her shoulders but punches and beats on all the other male characters and screams at them insanley at times causing funny moments...Bulma=Nami

Or perhaps a cowardly short sidekick who gets scared to death by any new villian, and usually gets his a$$ kicked in funny fashion until he gets serious (But still usually loses)...Krillen=Chopper

I could go on neodrag, just say the word...I think you know what I'm capable of...


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Originally Posted by drag
The only anime ever where the villains were the underdogs? So the multiple times where the main villain of an arc was freakishly stronger than everyone else making it a necessity that the heroes trained alot or pull a power up out of their butts based on anger never happened?
Hell yeah, after a certain point in the series to think the main villian of that arc was going to easily defeat Goku was somewhat ignorant....Remember Goku very seldom ever fought to totally beat his opponent, his goal alot of time was to test his abilities...Could have beaten Cell, Magin Vegeta, and Magin Buu....Coulda went 3 on Vegeta but didn't cause he wanted to give him a fair fight...Choose to let Majin buu live cause he wanted his kids to have a challenge...Sparred half-a$$ with Cell (for a good deal of that fight) to let Gohan see his moves...Just cause the villains were bada$$ don't mean they weren't underdawgs when they had to fight usually atleast 4 legendary SSJ's each epic battle...

Unlike One Piece, everybody knows Luffy's the $hit but I think it's safe for us to say there are many other characters that are stronger than him in that universe...He's the underdawg...
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:25   Link #23
ragweed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
You might be right about the latest chapters, but still in general Naruto has a sufficient action/cliffhanger level that will more-or-less keep you excited.
True, but after a while it gets so agonizingly predictable. Like Sai's clone getting hanged, did anybody actually think he had gotten killed off that quickly? It's gotten so that I'd wish stuff would actually happen during the chapter without having to wait for key points at the beginning of the next chapter.

Quote:
Also having more action does not always mean a good thing for everybody, especially if the action scenes take longer than expected.
If you're talking about One Piece having long fight scenes.... xD You do remember Sakura vs Sasori fight alone took 10 chapters?! Give or take a page or so for the Naruto/Deidra chase scene. Now that's incredibly long, especially for a secondary character. But like I said in my earlier post, (and aside from the profile panels) Kishi does second by second action sequences so that every hit has emphasis. (though the characters spend so much time avoiding attacks and regenarating body parts, it's a wonder they do get hit at all. I guess it makes it all the more special when they do. Though the endings of these arcs have usually left me disappointed because after all that time and doging and emphesis, the villian gets away or it's a tie or the hero loses the fight. And I do consider the Naruto v Garra a tie. For all the ooohing and aaahing over the kyuubi, just once I want Naruto to WIN something major. But I guess that's my opinion)

Quote:
In One Piece, if there will be a fight, in many cases all the main characters are involved in that fight (and usually more than once). Luffy might be given a big portion of that, but the others do not lag behind much. That is expected since I believe most of the fans would enjoy to see the fights from all the other character's at similar level (since all use different types of fighting skills). Also, the fights in One Piece seem to be more circumstantial than the fights in Naruto, thereby, allowing for more focusing in Naruto.
That's true. Although, I'd enjoy it alot more if there was less Naruto in the series and more Neji, Lee, Tenten, Shika, etc. Seriously! We barely got a glimpse of the clone fight last arc. ;__;
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:29   Link #24
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I don't know why the discussion moves in the direction of dragon ball. Even though it might have significant importance, comparing dragon ball to one piece or vice versa is not fair. Dragon ball has a historical importance, and can still entertain you, but that's it. One Piece has already exceeded its level, and that is what matters.
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:40   Link #25
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I think it comes down to one piece starts off really slow and oddly. The art style is wierd too. Of course once you get used to it I would say one piece is the best in several areas.
I would say for me they are all really different but close to equally good right now One Piece is my favorite because no filler.

Bleach is more mature with a cool art style, and has decent relationships that naruto and One Piece lack with some great comedy moments.

Naruto is fun and inspiring and gives you that oh man moments (specially if you take out the filler which is killing it by having Naruto bring out his powers every time he stubs his toe)and its fun to watch Naruto become a little less annouying than the beggining episodes(before the fillers bleh).

One Piece is goofy has voice actors that do a great job and has a world that is pretty unique,weird and with the feeling that any things possible.
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:45   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Silent_One
I would say for me they are all really different but close to equally good right now One Piece is my favorite because no filler.
I believe One Piece has also fillers. But they are not that long and they are still entertaining. I seem to remember someone mentioning about fillers before the skypie arc so I am not sure of that, but the arc between skypie and water 7 should be completely a filler.
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Old 2006-04-05, 20:48   Link #27
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
How bout a main character (who isn't the brightest lightbulb) that eats everything in sight and is a supreme slob... Eating anything that exists no matter how filthy or grotesque it is which is the cause of many hysterical moments...Goku=Luffy
Uh, nah. I wouldn't exactly call Luffy and Goku supreme slobs, might want to clarify what you mean by that. I don't remember Luffy exhibiting eating any filthy or grotesque thing in his sight. Much less that at least with Luffy he plumps while with Goku the characteristic is quite common among the main characters in DBZ much less gets overdone to the point of tedium.
Quote:
Or maybe a bossy girl who has a good head on her shoulders but punches and beats on all the other male characters and screams at them insanley at times causing funny moments...Bulma=Nami
In other words a general similarity equates to the same humor? Cause I don't remember Bulma being allowed to do this to just any of her fellow characters in the exact fashion unless you can cite a situation where Bulma sticks someone with a loan with 100% interest.
Quote:
Or perhaps a cowardly short sidekick who gets scared to death by any new villian, and usually gets his a$$ kicked in funny fashion until he gets serious (But still usually loses)...Krillen=Chopper

I could go on neodrag, just say the word...I think you know what I'm capable of...
Krillin equals Chopper how exactly since I don't remember Chopper fulfilling exactly the described form of action you bring up? Including when the number of times Chopper has lost a fight is quite small much less when Chopper loses it's not done in a comedic fasion. Chopper's humor in character is exhibited when it comes to him hiding behind something in the wrong way, saying one thing while his body language says another, naivety, etc. Much less that it's Ussop who gets beaten on in a humoress fashion. The two shows still don't share a quite similar type of humor since all you have done is listed out character similiarities that are general at best rather than really being on the nose in connections.
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Hell yeah, after a certain point in the series to think the main villian of that arc was going to easily defeat Goku was somewhat ignorant....Remember Goku very seldom ever fought to totally beat his opponent, his goal alot of time was to test his abilities...Could have beaten Cell, Magin Vegeta, and Magin Buu....Coulda went 3 on Vegeta but didn't cause he wanted to give him a fair fight...Choose to let Majin buu live cause he wanted his kids to have a challenge...Sparred half-a$$ with Cell (for a good deal of that fight) to let Gohan see his moves...Just cause the villains were bada$$ don't mean they weren't underdawgs when they had to fight usually atleast 4 legendary SSJ's each epic battle...
What was that about Cell? Cause I clearly remember Goku going as far as he possibly could to the point of kamikaze to take out Cell. And I don't remember Goku letting Majin Buu live simply to give his kids a challenge. It remains that plent of the time in DBZ we have the main villain being stronger than Goku rather than some idea that Goku is always holding back. It remains that when you have the existence of a move where the idea to gather the spirit energy of other beings being done on more than one occassion by Goku that Goku doesn't think he's gonna win by his strength alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt
I don't know why the discussion moves in the direction of dragon ball. Even though it might have significant importance, comparing dragon ball to one piece or vice versa is not fair. Dragon ball has a historical importance, and can still entertain you, but that's it. One Piece has already exceeded its level, and that is what matters.
Word on.
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:02   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag
Uh, nah. I wouldn't exactly call Luffy and Goku supreme slobs, might want to clarify what you mean by that. I don't remember Luffy exhibiting eating any filthy or grotesque thing in his sight. Much less that at least with Luffy he plumps while with Goku the characteristic is quite common among the main characters in DBZ much less gets overdone to the point of tedium.
Are you kidding me?? Have you ever seen Luffy and Goku eat?? I'd call anyone a slob who has food flying in every direction as they eat or makes people almost wanna hurl or lose their appettite at the very sight of them eating....Goku eats everything from dinosaur tales to original Piccolo's spawned goblin children while Luffy loves Bull-faced fish amoungst anything else that breaths he can find...I'd consider all that grotesque if they were on my dinner table or a random episode of Fear Factor...Sayains eat the creatures of the planets they destroy BTW just for reference and just last episode Luffy wanted to eat the raw meat of that sliced up sea creature...If you don't call that gross, please don't invite me to dinner...

I won't even go thru the rest because my point in comparing characters was the TYPE OF COMEDY each brings to their show (Which is similiar, even if it's general it's still similiar), not that the characters are totally 100% the same, I think you missed the point....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingRightness
Sparred half-a$$ with Cell (for a good deal of that fight) to let Gohan see his moves
As for Goku...he didn't get serious until the end when he stupidly allowed Cell to regenerate when he could have blasted him again (Even gave him a sensui bean)...he admitted to holding back for the whole first half of that fight....as for Majin buu (Fat buu, not kid buu), he admits that he could have destroyed him if he wanted too, but he wanted Goten and Gohan to take over as Earths heroes, this is right before he runs out of time on Earth...Shockingly he could have even defeated kid buu, but because he's a baka (like Luffy) he forgot that once he was wished backed to life he couldn't store energy like he could in his heaven-form, which got Vegeta really beat badly as he waited for Goku's ultimate power-up which never happened...Thank God for Satan who saved the day :/ (Did I just say that)...Goku always fights to test his abilities first, this is mentioned or alluded to several, several times during the course of the DBZGT...

No need to debate this much further as it is off-topic, but I see why you don't really get the comparisons or really like the show cause you don't know the content...
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:12   Link #29
neodrag38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Are you kidding me?? Have you ever seen Luffy and Goku eat?? I'd call anyone a slob who has food flying in every direction as they eat or makes people almost wanna hurl or lose their appettite at the very sight of them eating....Goku eats everything from dinosaur tales to original Piccolo's spawned goblin children while Luffy loves Bull-faced fish.
Except that with Luffy his food goes in his mouth rather than flying around. Well, there was the exception when he spat it out in surprise at Smoker. And it was clear that the bull-faced fish you speak of is eaten by people other than Luffy. That's like saying it's gross to eat horse simply because your culture doesn't do so.
Quote:
amoungst anything else he can find...I'd consider all that grotesque if they were on my dinner table or a random episode of Fear Factor...Sayains eat the creatures of the planets they destroy BTW just for reference and just last episode Luffy wanted to eat the raw meat of that sliced up sea creature...If you don't call that gross, please don't invite me to dinner...
Again, the food you speak of when it comes to Luffy is stuff that not only he would eat. There are plenty of cultures that eat things that people in the US wouldn't eat but it doesn't mean it's just absolutely grotesque.
Quote:
I won't even go thru the rest because my point in comparing characters was the TYPE OF COMEDY each brings to their show (Which is similiar, even if it's general it's still similiar), not that the characters are totally 100% the same, I think you missed the point....
Except that what you describe was off or just plain incorrect. I still wonder how you came up with what you listed for Chopper.
Quote:
As for Goku...he didn't get serious until the end when he stupidly allowed Cell to regenerate when he could have blasted him again (Even gave him a sensui bean)...he admitted to holding back for the whole first half of that fight....as for Majin buu (Fat buu, not kid buu), he admits that he could have destroyed him if he wanted too, but he wanted Goten and Gohan to take over as Earths heroes, this is right before he runs out of time on Earth...Shockingly he could have even defeated kid buu, but because he's a baka (like Luffy) he forgot that once he was wished backed to life he couldn't store energy like he could in his heaven-form, which got Vegeta really beat badly as he waited for Goku's ultimate power-up which never happened...Thank God for Satan who saved the day :/ (Did I just say that)...Goku always fights to test his abilities first, this is mentioned or alluded to several, several times during the course of the DBZGT...
Except that again we have Goku training with son to face the Androids that Cell later on ate. That we still have that Goku is incapable of defeating Cell during the Cell saga. You seem to still forget that Cell was able to reform himself even after blowing himself up. And no he couldn't have defeated Kid Buu, I don't see how you came to that. It remains that DBZGT wasn't absolutely just simply that of Goku always being stronger than the main villain.
Quote:
No need to debate this much further as it is off-topic, but I see why you don't really get the comparisons or really like the show cause you don't know the content...
The comparisons are quite simply quite off really. And I do know the content of the show. I watched the original Japanese version and dub, even watch the series on more than one occasion in entirety. I'm willing to even admit I watched the first dub eps of DBZ that occured while I was in elementary school more than 3 times over.

But yeah, this is off topic.
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:16   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Anyway, it is not easy to guess the general point of view, since anywhere you dig you observe another difference that can directly affect personal opinion.
Very nicely put!
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:27   Link #31
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@neo -Err..Your a tuff cookie I swear..Chopper gets scared when he sees villains...Does he not?? Krillen gets scared as he sees villains, does he not? They both serve as comic relief at times because of their FEAR...When Chopper is in small-mode he runs around getting his butt kicked until he gets serious or finds the courage to fight thru...Krillen is similiar until the buu saga when he's just useless...

As for Kid buu, Goku mismanaged his energy because he forgot SSJ 3 is limited even more in human-form...He's holding his reserve energy for the final blow then realized he didn't have the energy...This is in "1 minute fight Vegeta vs. Kid buu" ep...Your sleeping on how Goku fights to have fun and test his strength until the end...

Ugh...don't respond back...Lets just end it...

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Old 2006-04-05, 22:35   Link #32
neodrag38
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
@neo -Err..Your a tuff cookie I swear..Chopper gets scared when he sees villains...Does he not?? Krillen gets scared as he sees villains, does he not? They both serve as comic relief at times because of their FEAR...When Chopper is in small-mode he runs around getting his butt kicked until he gets serious or finds the courage to fight thru...Krillen is similiar until the buu saga when he's just useless...
Uh, no. The fact remains that many of the characters in One Piece get scared when faced with a villain; not just Chopper. The humorous moments unique to Chopper still consist of his naivety, hiding behind a wall and looking at you the wrong way, and his trademark badmouthing you while his body says different. These are characteristics that still outway a general similarity you brought up. Especially when again Chopper doesn't just simply run around in his small when getting beat on. Much less that when he gets defeated it clearly wasn't intended to be humorous.
Quote:
As for Kid buu, Goku mismanaged his energy because he forgot SSJ 3 is limited even more in human-form...He's holding his reserve energy for the final blow then realized he didn't have the energy...This is in "1 minute fight Vegeta vs. Kid buu" ep...Your sleeping on how Goku fights to have fun and test his strength until the end...
In other words that changes the fact that Goku was still the inferior how? Since that reserve of energy you bring up still could only be brought up by the participation of not only Goku to fight Kid Buu. Much less that I still don't remember Goku absolutely fighting only within the narrow confines of fun and testing strength. Unless delivering monologues like he does at times is suppose to be also great fun.
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Ugh...don't respond back...Lets just end it...

:|
You know that would never happen.
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:47   Link #33
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^

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Uh, no. The fact remains that many of the characters in One Piece get scared when faced with a villain; not just Chopper
Yeah, and how many of them or short, quirky purposely created comic relief-ish characters? Huh?

Quote:
Since that reserve of energy you bring up still could only be brought up by the participation of not only Goku to fight Kid Buu
That's because he loves testing his strength...That why he was apparently dissapointed when he finally defeated him because he considered kid buu the ultimate challenge and that's why he was so happy that buu was reincarnated as Uub so he could continue to fight someone on his level...He susequently left his family for like 10 years just fighting and training Uub in the look-out base overseeing Earth...Did you forget sayains fight for the thrill of the fight, not just to win?? Content my brother...bring it to work...
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:52   Link #34
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
^



Yeah, and how many of them or short, quirky purposely created comic relief-ish characters? Huh?
Except that Chopper isn't permenantly dwarf size. Still grasping for straws here. Cause Chopper isn't humorous for simply just being short and easily scared.
Quote:
That's because he loves testing his strength...That why he was apparently dissapointed when he finally defeated him because he considered kid buu the ultimate challenge and that's why he was so happy that buu was reincarnated as Uub so he could continue to fight someone on his level...He susequently left his family for like 10 years just fighting and training Uub in the look-out base overseeing Earth...Did you forget sayains fight for the thrill of the fight, not just to win?? Content my brother...bring it to work...
Uh, You do realize that he also wanted Ubuu around when it comes to the future of Earth since he wasn't expecting to be around forever. You still haven't proved that it was a constant, absolute basis that Goku was stronger than the main villain to the point of the main villain being the underdog. Joy at fighting a strong opponent doesn't equate to actually being stronger than the opponent. Much less that I still wouldn't say Goku defeated Kid Buu by himself.
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:57   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One
I would say for me they are all really different but close to equally good right now One Piece is my favorite because no filler.
I believe One Piece has also fillers. But they are not that long and they are still entertaining. I seem to remember someone mentioning about fillers before the skypie arc so I am not sure of that, but the arc between skypie and water 7 should be completely a filler.
The anime does have fillers, the major difference however is that the the anime flows more seemlessly through the fillers... most of the time, if your not familiar with the manga you don't really notice when it enters a filler... that's atleast how it is for me

however, like naruto, one piece looks like it may end up going into a bit of a long filler... from the looks of it, the anime isn't too far behind the manga... i suspect after the enies lobby arc, they will be quite a bit of filler to allow the manga to pull more ahead. Grant it, so far, i've liked the one piece fillers better then the naruto fillers...

One thing i hate about naruto fillers that one piece does really have is that Naruto fillers happen in the middle of the story; so while your watching the filler your itching to move on with the story to see whats happening... One piece, on the other hand, places its fillers when there's nothing really happening, so your not so eagar to move on... y'know, in addition to the fillers being a bit more enjoyable
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Old 2006-04-05, 22:59   Link #36
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In my opinion I think that one piece is not a show that you can get hooked on with just 5 eps. People who can see the big picture and can wait for the story to develop will enjoy it more. To me I like that type of anime.
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Old 2006-04-05, 23:07   Link #37
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@neo -Your being really anal on the Chopper point when it was meant as a general comparison from jumpstreet...When krillen is all scared and stuff of a new villian i laff, when Chopper is all scared and stuff of a new villain I laff...They both do things in those situations specifically to make veiwers laff..So give it up...


Quote:
You still haven't proved that it was a constant, absolute basis that Goku was stronger than the main villain to the point of the main villain being the underdog. Joy at fighting a strong opponent doesn't equate to actually being stronger than the opponent. Much less that I still wouldn't say Goku defeated Kid Buu by himself
Oh don't play that game with me...bringing up the orginal argument when the debate had evolved into something else...The kid buu point which was obscure at the time was to suggest that Goku holds back sometimes to just test his strength, not that the villain was an underdawg (which every villain after freiza seemed to be compared to what we've come to expect from Goku)..."Absolute basis", yeah OK ...Proving subjectivity ain't the easiest thing in the world, but I take on the challenge...
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Old 2006-04-05, 23:14   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Slayerx
The anime does have fillers, the major difference however is that the the anime flows more seemlessly through the fillers... most of the time, if your not familiar with the manga you don't really notice when it enters a filler... that's atleast how it is for me

however, like naruto, one piece looks like it may end up going into a bit of a long filler... from the looks of it, the anime isn't too far behind the manga... i suspect after the enies lobby arc, they will be quite a bit of filler to allow the manga to pull more ahead. Grant it, so far, i've liked the one piece fillers better then the naruto fillers...

One thing i hate about naruto fillers that one piece does really have is that Naruto fillers happen in the middle of the story; so while your watching the filler your itching to move on with the story to see whats happening... One piece, on the other hand, places its fillers when there's nothing really happening, so your not so eagar to move on... y'know, in addition to the fillers being a bit more enjoyable
There is one significant difference between Naruto and One Piece in terms of fillers (in paralel to what you have mentioned). In Naruto, after each filler, you have to go back to the starting point, whereas in One Piece, the characters are continuously on the move, so going back to the starting point does not mean much. Since at almost each arc we are given a background information mostly on the characters, and we have a rather slow development (for the action-lover fans, power-up) process, filler arcs can be integrated into the main storyline without lowering the quality.
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Old 2006-04-05, 23:23   Link #39
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I'm fairly sure in the procession of One Piece not being so popular, Al Kahn is a major factor in it.

As for simply forums, it's hard to say really. One Piece imo is the greatest manga of all time, and Naruto/Bleach doesn't hold a candle to it......YET. If I had to give a reason, a lot of my normal friends turned away from good mangas because it looked too weird to them.

OP is still the King of the 3 SJ Kings. It had been, still is, and most probably will stay as the King of Kings.
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Old 2006-04-05, 23:52   Link #40
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness
@neo -Your being really anal on the Chopper point when it was meant as a general comparison from jumpstreet...When krillen is all scared and stuff of a new villian i laff, when Chopper is all scared and stuff of a new villain I laff...They both do things in those situations specifically to make veiwers laff..So give it up...
Not really. Cause this part of the conversation stemed from the subject of humor in which Chopper's distinct character based humor isn't simply that of height or being fearful. It's clear that the character you should have brought up at all about being humorous when scared is actually Ussop.
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Oh don't play that game with me...bringing up the orginal argument when the debate had evolved into something else...The kid buu point which was obscure at the time was to suggest that Goku holds back sometimes to just test his strength, not that the villain was an underdawg (which every villain after freiza seemed to be compared to what we've come to expect from Goku)..."Absolute basis", yeah OK ...Proving subjectivity ain't the easiest thing in the world, but I take on the challenge...
No, the thing was Goku and Kid Buu was still simply a matter of Goku not being capable of defeating Kid Buu by himself. No amount of excuses or blame will change the fact that Goku still cleary wasn't doing what you specified for every villain after Freiza. That Goku was not in a situation of actually being able to defeat Cell.
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