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View Poll Results: Meer VS Lacus
Meer 94 30.92%
Lacus 210 69.08%
Voters: 304. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-04-09, 12:52   Link #21
Demongod86
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First off, to get the offtopicness outta the way: KiNa, who is that sexay chick in your avvy?

As for Lacus vs. Mia, uhhhh...they both had their appeals. Mia I liked because she was essentially Fllay "done correctly" and by that, I mean that she really WAS innocent and good-natured (which probably did her in). Then again, her death was a complete plot device to off her and make Lacus cry. They couldn't just have put her in critical aboard the archangel to recover fully in FP, could they? Bastards. I wanted to see an angel bath scene between the two. I'm sure she'd tap Mia far sooner than Kira anyway (we all saw how hungrily she was staring at Cagalli when she got out of the tub in GSD24).

As for Lacus, sweet pink goddessy goodness! Who cares about unrealistic? I like the fact that she's more idealized than your usual girl...heck, which girl in anime ISN'T idealized to some point? I mean geez, when was the last time you saw a highly intelligent, 5'4" 36-22-34 girl in real life? In anime, it happens all the time.
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Old 2006-04-09, 20:52   Link #22
Crusader
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Meer's character was mortal(given that she died), and more believable than lacus to some extent, despite me hating them both, i'd rather watch meer over lacus
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Old 2006-04-09, 21:17   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader
Meer's character was mortal(given that she died), and more believable than lacus to some extent, despite me hating them both, i'd rather watch meer over lacus
I'm sure her scantily clad bouncifications don't hurt matters, either.
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Old 2006-04-09, 21:30   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
First off, to get the offtopicness outta the way: KiNa, who is that sexay chick in your avvy?

As for Lacus vs. Mia, uhhhh...they both had their appeals. Mia I liked because she was essentially Fllay "done correctly" and by that, I mean that she really WAS innocent and good-natured (which probably did her in). Then again, her death was a complete plot device to off her and make Lacus cry. They couldn't just have put her in critical aboard the archangel to recover fully in FP, could they? Bastards. I wanted to see an angel bath scene between the two. I'm sure she'd tap Mia far sooner than Kira anyway (we all saw how hungrily she was staring at Cagalli when she got out of the tub in GSD24).

As for Lacus, sweet pink goddessy goodness! Who cares about unrealistic? I like the fact that she's more idealized than your usual girl...heck, which girl in anime ISN'T idealized to some point? I mean geez, when was the last time you saw a highly intelligent, 5'4" 36-22-34 girl in real life? In anime, it happens all the time.
LOL DG, you still havent given up the hope of angel bath between those 2

both the av and sig is the same girl.. Rider from Fate Stay Night ^^

And yey!! Go Lacus
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Old 2006-04-09, 21:42   Link #25
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I don't particularly like either.. since I'm really a Cagalli-fan lol XD
But I'll have to disagree with the comment made about Meer being a complex character.

A complex character is one that you cannot quite figure him/her out... someone who require you to really ponder on his/her course of action. Dully and Raw are complex character... Meer is not. Her action were straight forward... Fukada even dedicated 1/2 eps to explain her... even though it's easy to understand why she act the way she does without it... so I'd say, she's a somewhat realistic character with some human touch but she is far from complex.
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Old 2006-04-09, 22:35   Link #26
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I wouldn't go as far to call Mia a complex character (I mean obviously she was, but in the context of characterization it wasn't achieved well)...Anyways I feel Mia got to do some vital things in certain episodes that makes her character have a sense of importance Lacus doesn't have IMO...Her actions and breakdown in episode 36 was compelling and her earlier interaction with Athrun (pre-SAVIOR) seemed geniune and innocent enuff...She flopped pretty much after ep 36, but she did a really good job as a fake for the most part (which she loved an embraced)...She certainly exhibited more emotional and realistic qualities than Lacus...


All Lacus incredibly important scenes either don't exist (because she's hidden on Terminal for like 20 straight eps) or is comically pathetic at best...

Figuring out the DESTINY PLAN in 5 secs based off a scribble

Using Athrun the exact same way as Dullindal

Giving moronic orders to Murrue during the heat of battles

Masterminding the entire series in an ultimate chessgame with Dully
(This is the biggest comedy of all, yet somehow there are those who actually accept this with almost zero evidence to validate any of it)

I will give her credit for nerfing Cagali's brain from the start and subtley keeping it up all series...I'd also like to think that with her ability to interrupt television broadcasts within a single bound she could have used that power with better timing and or planning...

Overall I'd pick Mia as the lesser of 2 cute evils, just because if i were to pick Lacus (On merits that are non-superficial), I'd have to buy into alot of bull$hit inwhich I'm incapable of doing...
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Old 2006-04-09, 23:28   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness
Overall I'd pick Mia as the lesser of 2 cute evils, just because if i were to pick Lacus (On merits that are non-superficial), I'd have to buy into alot of bull$hit inwhich I'm incapable of doing...
Yeah, Lacus is a real hack character in Destiny. She was OK in Seed, not great, but I guess she was slipping some Franklins to the plot device writer on the sly and that's why she won the war in Destiny basically without even batting an eye. Most of what she did was total bullsh*t. (Especially that Destiny Plan thing like you said). She only scores points for being cute, but ultimately loses to Murrue in that department anyway.

Meer at least had depths and showed character.
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Old 2006-04-10, 01:51   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Komataguri
I'm sure her scantily clad bouncifications don't hurt matters, either.
... they are just a nice bonus to her being human and prove she is even more human and realistic.






..... really.






............ Meer clearly also symbolizes the effect of plastic surgery on hu-... oh what the hell am I saying.

orz
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Old 2006-04-10, 02:59   Link #29
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QFT, WD and Obi. QFT.

Geez, you two are hogging all the good points to say.
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Old 2006-04-10, 08:18   Link #30
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I'd clearly pick Meer, but mostly because Lacus is a cheap character. Sure, you can make someone perfect in anime like a lot of other girls, but Lacus along with Kira simply pisses me off with her being always the goddess, good girl, innocent character, bug-free mind, and especially their spotlight-stealing skills. In anime that's just cheap, not good at all. Just try doing that in real life.

Quote:
QFT, WD and Obi. QFT.
Same here.
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Old 2006-04-10, 16:41   Link #31
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at this point, i don't even care to mention anything of lacus "masterminding skills" since it isn't there.
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Old 2006-04-10, 19:40   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonGod
5'4" 36-22-34
36-22-34? Lacus?

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Old 2006-04-10, 22:01   Link #33
Demongod86
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Originally Posted by srb
36-22-34? Lacus?

Absolutely! You just never see anything because of the way she dresses in that she HIDES everything. There was one moment in ep 24 when she was in the angel bath with cags that you could see the curve of her...ahems...oh, and need I mention the eyecatch between scenes? I'd definitely call that

STACKED.

And usually, waistlines are around the length of bustlines (I THINK...I could be wrong here!) so that's where I derived my conclusions.

And an angel bath between Lacus and Mia? Hey, what do you think is always hanging around in my own original work with two princesses as the mains? It's always nice to keep people in suspense!
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Old 2006-04-10, 22:13   Link #34
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Lacus doesnt have such a figure shes too slim or you can say 'flat'.

Meer on the other hand is a true bombshell, shes probably 38-22-36 or something. Meer's figure is real too, she had this figure before transforming into Lacus, probably the genes shes coordinated with.

The person who has 36-22-34 would be Luna, shes my favourite GSD girl simply because shes the hottest gundam girl ever.

Last edited by C.A.; 2006-04-11 at 23:04.
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Old 2006-04-10, 22:55   Link #35
dom33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
First off, to get the offtopicness outta the way: KiNa, who is that sexay chick in your avvy?

As for Lacus vs. Mia, uhhhh...they both had their appeals. Mia I liked because she was essentially Fllay "done correctly" and by that, I mean that she really WAS innocent and good-natured (which probably did her in). Then again, her death was a complete plot device to off her and make Lacus cry. They couldn't just have put her in critical aboard the archangel to recover fully in FP, could they? Bastards. I wanted to see an angel bath scene between the two. I'm sure she'd tap Mia far sooner than Kira anyway (we all saw how hungrily she was staring at Cagalli when she got out of the tub in GSD24).

As for Lacus, sweet pink goddessy goodness! Who cares about unrealistic? I like the fact that she's more idealized than your usual girl...heck, which girl in anime ISN'T idealized to some point? I mean geez, when was the last time you saw a highly intelligent, 5'4" 36-22-34 girl in real life? In anime, it happens all the time.
fllay was done correctlly!she was the most well written character in gundam seed and the hottest to boot. it amazes me how you can't tell when a moment is a plot device or not.your idea of keeping meer alive is something they do in a certain show with little or no plot,low character development, unitresting episodes and one side wins with plot devices oh wait that's gsd not power rangers, heck gsd makes power rangers look like shakspear. and with gundam series you want realism. thoose are not lacus'es measurments.i pick the lesser of 2 evils meer.
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Old 2006-04-11, 11:19   Link #36
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Meer knew that the people wanted her because she "was" Lacus Clyne. Remember her little date with Athrun? She said everybody needs Lacus Clyne, but nobody needs Meer Campbell. It could be one point of view that she was afraid that she would lose everything that she "was" if she went with Athrun, but you could also see it this way: what if Meer DOES run away with Athrun, who would be the Lacus Clyne of ZAFT? Because at that point in time, it was still too early to dispose of Meer (if that was Dullindal's intention all along ) because of the crisis regarding the Archangel, and the real Lacus Clyne, and Athrun's "treachery", and LOGOS. That's quite a tall order for Dullindal to be able to handle efficiently, he needs the "support" of Lacus Clyne. Then, if Meer did manage to escape, what would they do with her character after that? Continue her masquerade as Lacus Clyne while the real Lacus Clyne runs away with Kira Yamato on an island living with more orphans?

In the "Meer" episode (or was it?) Lacus was reading her diary entries. Meer knew she was going to be used by Dullindal to masquerade as Lacus. She wants to help all that she can even if it means that she has to do it in the guise of another. She knew there was a war, and she knew she was helping in the only way she can, by agreeing to become Lacus and agreeing to hide her real name, her real life, forever. She was Lacus' No. 1 fangirl, and she really likes her idol so much, so she decided to give it a shot. Meer believed that Dullindal really wanted to make a better place for Coordinators and Naturals alike, that was why she stood by him even though she knew she was a fake.

Lacus...>.< The only things I see complex about her are her outfits and especially that pink Moon Goddess gown she wears. Honestly, unless you count the "efficiency" of Terminal and Factory... and her ability to know evil by just making "educated" guesses at most with only a notebook for evidence...say what you will, but Lacus by far isn't the most complex character in all of Gundam. Heine was more complex, and he only showed up in 3 episodes...
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Old 2006-04-11, 11:59   Link #37
Demongod86
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Understanding Lacus's complexity is like understanding professional gamers. Some of the stuff they do you can't really see, or it doesn't look great, but it's the judgment, timing, and intuition that puts progamers and Lacus on a whole different level. Remember that in a fictional environment, you very well CAN have a character that is superbly intuitive, because, you, as the author/creator/writer, are the ultimate power in your own fictional work. If you want a character to be able to deduce something and seem the ultimate genius for knowing what the heck was happening across the world in the mind of another from just one little notebook or whatnot, that is within your power. Out of universe, it will seem that the creator is putting a bit of his own omniscience within a character, but WITHIN the universe, it will be fact that the character is INDEED THAT INTUITIVE.

How did Lacus guess what Durandall was up to from the book? A certain bias (she was targeted by coordinators, hmmm...), a certain war, the fake Lacus, then the book. Lacus had a certain interpretation of the events around her, and ultimately, she WAS correct to do what she did, lest Orb get nuked into oblivion simply for dissenting with the Destiny plan.

Yes, it may certainly seem unrealistic for Lacus to suddenly, in all of her eighteen year old wisdom, be able to know what the heck a guy twice her age in the seat of ultimate ZAFT power is exactly up to, especially when Durandall basically kept his hand hidden until the end, but the fact is, she IS THAT INTUITIVE. Why? Because the creators made her that way. She isn't a super ace pilot, she doesn't have mind control powers, nor does she have much access to broadcasting channels. What she DOES have, though, is intuition, and a few friends with high-performance military (or PO'd civilian up until nearly the end) hardware that will do their best to do as she sees, because she knows what's going on.

The people that don't give Lacus credit are interpreting her character from out of universe. Of course, when all is said and done, a character is only as good as the creator wants them to be. If I wanted to, I could have my main characters in my original fiction instantly discover this amazing rock of OMFG UBER POWER and bam, they become gods on earth. And of course, from a writing perspective, that will seem stupid and cheesy as it rips off the viewers/readers/audience. But from in-universe, the characters WILL be that powerful.

I believe that people simply don't appreciate Lacus because of the inherent advantages her character has due to favor with the actual creators. Out of universe, why is she right? Because she's Lacus, and Lacus is never wrong, otherwise it's Fukuda's head on a pike. But in universe? Because Lacus has great intuition and is able to read the signs of her time down to the dot, that allows her to make the right decisions at the right moments.

For those that say Fllay was done right, I am having a LOT of difficulty believing that a spoiled american princess, so to speak, would go so off-the-wall against especially one innocent guy, and screw so many people over. Okay, yeah, it sucks that her dad got blown up. So she just snaps and goes completely bonkers and becomes almost alien as a relatable human being? Fllay's character is as exaggerated as Lacus's, if not moreso.
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Old 2006-04-11, 12:09   Link #38
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Here is the exerpt from Phase-39 where she divines the Destiny Plan from the journal, from my personal translation of the raw dialogue.

Quote:
Martin: This was all I could find.
But take a look at this...
I think it's a note from one of his colleagues or something.

Andy: The Destiny Plan that Durandal speaks of seems beneficial for this day and age.
But there is one thing we must not forget.
People do not live for the world.
The world is simply where people live.

Lacus: This is...!

Andy: Destiny Plan?
What is it?
How she divined the truth of the D Plan from that passage is beyond my personal comprehensive abilities. But it is clear that they had her "figure it out" to give Orb another misconstrued reason to fight ZAFT appart from the assassination that probably was Durandal's doing but nevertheless went unconfirmed throughout the show. There was never any hard proof that Durandal was responsible, he just looked like he still had the wet paint on his hands. It's just a sad attempt to make the original Seed cast the omnipotent entities that they were in Destiny.
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Old 2006-04-11, 14:47   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Yes, it may certainly seem unrealistic for Lacus to suddenly, in all of her eighteen year old wisdom, be able to know what the heck a guy twice her age in the seat of ultimate ZAFT power is exactly up to, especially when Durandall basically kept his hand hidden until the end, but the fact is, she IS THAT INTUITIVE. Why? Because the creators made her that way. She isn't a super ace pilot, she doesn't have mind control powers, nor does she have much access to broadcasting channels. What she DOES have, though, is intuition, and a few friends with high-performance military (or PO'd civilian up until nearly the end) hardware that will do their best to do as she sees, because she knows what's going on.
your right in the sence that it doesn't matter whether or not Lacus is realistic... afterall when it comes to art, animation and writing, nothing has to be realistic... However, it does have to believable...

It's not that i don't find Lacus to be realistic, its that i find her to unbelievable. A writer is free to do what whatever he wants to a character, he can give them all sorts of attributes... but he must remain believable... if the audience doesn't believe the character's abilities are possible, then it's just bad writing

DBZ... poeple fly around firing off energy blasts... not at all realistic, but in the world of DBZ i find it be believable...
Naruto... Ninjas use their inner energy to perform amazing and powerful attacks... Not realistic, but i still believe they can do it
Gundam SEED Destiny... Lacus's near absolute perfection... not realistic, and even in the realm of GSD, i don't believe it for a second
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Old 2006-04-11, 19:05   Link #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Absolutely! You just never see anything because of the way she dresses in that she HIDES everything. There was one moment in ep 24 when she was in the angel bath with cags that you could see the curve of her...ahems...oh, and need I mention the eyecatch between scenes? I'd definitely call that

STACKED.

And usually, waistlines are around the length of bustlines (I THINK...I could be wrong here!) so that's where I derived my conclusions.
Demongod, take a good look at the episode where Junius 7 falls. I think it's time for you to realize that Lacus has inflatable boobies, because there is no way in hell you can hide globes of that magnitude in that dress :P.

And if I'm not mistaken, official three sizes for SEED were published somewhere... I do know that Murrue and Frey were at the top, followed by Cagalli but Lacus nowhere near. And yes, fellow forum members, I too think that it's disturbing that I know this.
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