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Old 2006-03-04, 07:14   Link #21
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
By that point, I think most of us had registered so many plot holes we were kind of "eh" to it.

The existence of Mayumi (a human-demon hybrid) was thought to be a major plothole. The portals had only been in existence for 10 years. Yet here is 17 yr old Mayumi who has been openly hybrid for her whole life as far as we know.

Reviewing the series... I caught Nadesico's lecture about how some people had slipped across the boundaries before the portals (a foreshadowing of Ama-san's secret). I suddenly realized Mayumi's parents had met in a similar way.. but once the portals opened up -- her parents and her must have immediately revealed themselves instead of keeping it secret. Unanswered is how Mayumi's demon parent arrived since they weren't involved in any experiment.

There were a number of plotholes throughout the series..... the boxcutter drop ---- would have made more sense if Rin had been another half flight down directly below Kaede..... I'd classify it more as poor scene design than a plothole.
I think that's explained early in the game in one of Benibara's history lessons. Like you speculated, some couples kept their magical origins secret until the opening of the dimensional gates 10 years before the story. Mayumi must have worn coloured contacts for the first 7 years of her life to hide her different eye colours.
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Old 2006-03-04, 10:07   Link #22
Furudanuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle
I think that's explained early in the game in one of Benibara's history lessons. Like you speculated, some couples kept their magical origins secret until the opening of the dimensional gates 10 years before the story. Mayumi must have worn coloured contacts for the first 7 years of her life to hide her different eye colours.
Mayumi could use colored contacts to disguise her eyes, but it would not be necessary. Having two different colored eyes (heterochromia) is unusual, but it is not extremely rare: Jane Seymour, Kiefer Sutherland and Christopher Walken all have heterochromatic eyes. And since people at the time knew nothing about the Shin and Ma realms, the idea that she was a demon-human hybrid would not occur to them as a possibility. This assumes, of course, that it was Mayumi's demon parent that came to the human realm before the dimensional gates opened. It is just as possible that Mayumi's human parent was transported to the demon realm, Mayumi was born there, and the family migrated to the human realm after the gates opened.
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Old 2006-04-11, 09:55   Link #23
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answer to plot hole.

The stairway was alot steeper than it looked.

American and Euorpean stairways require have at the most a 55* angle.

But since Japan needs to save space every where then can, a stairway angle of 75* is not unueual. Given this it's possible for Kaede to have dropped the boxcutter onto Rin.

The camera angle didn't show it al lthat well either...

(I know this becasue i had to compare Stairway angles in a recent math problem for my math fumlua's class)



As for Mayumi and Asa's case:
My theroy was that this all started with the 1st massive failed attempt with Project Yadrisell (spelling!). The massive explosion of raw magic more than likely created a "crack" between the the relms (Which is why Ama was able to be thrown into the human realm) After that for the next 10 years the occational demon/god/or human would "slip through the crack" (more than likely by accident), if you will, into one of the other relms. And then probably either due to the other experimants or finding the crack, the gods and demons forced the crack wider and open the door to the other realms for easy passage.
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Old 2006-04-11, 12:05   Link #24
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
answer to plot hole.

The stairway was alot steeper than it looked.

American and Euorpean stairways require have at the most a 55* angle.

But since Japan needs to save space every where then can, a stairway angle of 75* is not unueual. Given this it's possible for Kaede to have dropped the boxcutter onto Rin.

The camera angle didn't show it al lthat well either...

(I know this becasue i had to compare Stairway angles in a recent math problem for my math fumlua's class)
Eh, care to demonstrate? For an object to pass vertically before your eyes, no angle in existence save a 90 degree one can do that.
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Old 2006-04-11, 12:31   Link #25
Vexx
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If they'd animated her giving it a small ballistic momentum (toss up and out, sail down) along with the 75 degree incline, this'd be moot.

Given the animation massacre in the last 15 minutes of the last ep.... the mysterious boxcutter attack trajectory seems rather minor.

Anyone wonder how one arrives at and uses the portal? Do you have to buy a ticket? Are civilians free to come and go? Passports? Why is the portal theatre room totally empty? Personnel?

Why did I always get the feeling most of the "idol worship squads" were unemployed adult men loitering around a high school?

... and most important... did Forbesii ever chat up Nadesico?
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Old 2006-04-11, 13:16   Link #26
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
If they'd animated her giving it a small ballistic momentum (toss up and out, sail down) along with the 75 degree incline, this'd be moot.

Given the animation massacre in the last 15 minutes of the last ep.... the mysterious boxcutter attack trajectory seems rather minor.

Anyone wonder how one arrives at and uses the portal? Do you have to buy a ticket? Are civilians free to come and go? Passports? Why is the portal theatre room totally empty? Personnel?

Why did I always get the feeling most of the "idol worship squads" were unemployed adult men loitering around a high school?

... and most important... did Forbesii ever chat up Nadesico?
Yes, that too.

I'd think they were pretty open for everyone as long as they paid some sort of price, but it's not explained in the anime so anyone's theory is correct, from one way only (humans are allowed in very special cases, like Rin, special case of retarded individual ) to open to all for tourism but obviously with a ticket for transports, pass etc etc.

It did seem that they were too old to be high school students, but then, it's probably the way they're drawn (ugly, etc). Some are probably highschool students, but maybe some have graduated but are still members (but that would be the case for KKK only, after all SSS and RRR were formed recently, so they can't have graduates for members).
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Old 2006-04-11, 13:48   Link #27
Rin-Sama
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Although yes the portal can easily be crossed now you have to have special premissions to do so. Think of it like crossing the border into another county. You need special permission and require speical needs to do so.

Npal if Kaede held the boxcutter straint out it would have fallen straint down AT a 90* angle!
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Old 2006-04-11, 13:59   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
By that point, I think most of us had registered so many plot holes we were kind of "eh" to it.

The existence of Mayumi (a human-demon hybrid) was thought to be a major plothole. The portals had only been in existence for 10 years. Yet here is 17 yr old Mayumi who has been openly hybrid for her whole life as far as we know.
Actually this was explain in the game but not in the anime. Nadesico in the game explain that the while the Gate was officially open 10 years ago game term. People were already slipping across it accidently before then. They just couldn't figureout a way to get back. One such person was Mayumi's human parent.
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Old 2006-04-11, 14:09   Link #29
Rin-Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
Actually this was explain in the game but not in the anime. Nadesico in the game explain that the while the Gate was officially open 10 years ago game term. People were already slipping across it accidently before then. They just couldn't figureout a way to get back. One such person was Mayumi's human parent.
Don't you mean Demon parent? After all she was born on Earth.
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Old 2006-04-11, 14:18   Link #30
Sian
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do they ever say that eh?

it seemed to me that it was human slipping though the boundery
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Old 2006-04-11, 14:24   Link #31
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
Although yes the portal can easily be crossed now you have to have special premissions to do so. Think of it like crossing the border into another county. You need special permission and require speical needs to do so.
And this is documented ... where?

I mean thats a likely supposition and such.. but you're spouting it as if it were fact.
Reference material please.


@Xellos: Actually, if you'd read a bit farther in that post, I note that Nadesico's lectures in the anime actually cover that topic - and thats how I resolved the apparent dilemma. Her lectures actually cover a lot of territory on the background --- a nice way to explain the environment without taking up plot time.

As far as Mayumi, its implied she was raised on Earth (her parents have a traditional old bathhouse) - so a reasonable assumption would be her demon parent slipped through to Earth. But its not explicitly stated anywhere so it can't be nailed down.
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Old 2006-04-11, 14:28   Link #32
Furudanuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
Don't you mean Demon parent? After all she was born on Earth.
Nope, Mayumi was born in the Makai realm. Quotes taken from the Shuffle! game translation test:

Nadeshiko: "In short, even before the Opening ten years ago, smaller gateways appeared occasionally. People who went through these were often never seen again. However, some of these people settled in the other world and had children, as you all well know. One of those children is sitting right here."

Miss Beni looked at Mayumi. Mayumi flashed a peace sign back at the teacher.

Rin (thinking to himself): "Apparently, one of Mayumi's parents was a human who drifted to the demon world. I heard that her human blood is stronger, so she can't use magic."

Edit - Again, this info is from the game. It was never specified in the anime which parent was "spirited away".
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Old 2006-04-11, 15:17   Link #33
Rin-Sama
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The translation is backwards (Rin: Apparently one of Mayumi's parents was a demon who drifted to the human relm.). Mayumi had to have been born on Earth becasue she has lived on Earth all her life. Unless somehow her parents found a way to make it back to the human relm before the portal was completely opend.
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Old 2006-04-11, 15:24   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
The translation is backwards (Rin: Apparently one of Mayumi's parents was a demon who drifted to the human relm.). Mayumi had to have been born on Earth becasue she has lived on Earth all her life. Unless somehow her parents found a way to make it back to the human relm before the portal was completely opend.
Rin, you are going to have to take this up with the translation team for the game. Since this came form one of their test rls.
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Old 2006-04-11, 15:29   Link #35
Sian
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one of the greatest qulities of a skilled debator is to archknowlegde when the evidence is against him ... << rin ... might be a good idea to print that quote into mind
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Old 2006-04-11, 15:39   Link #36
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin-Sama
... Mayumi had to have been born on Earth becasue she has lived on Earth all her life. ... .
Okay... where is that documented? Furudanuki supplied a reference which satisfies me for the moment. I can always go to the game and look at the original Japanese but somehow I can't visualize such a basic error given the rather strict construction of Japanese grammar.
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Old 2006-04-11, 15:50   Link #37
Rin-Sama
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Well translating Jpanese into English is more art than direct traslation like you can do with Spainish. Sometimes, and i have seen this happen, the translators will directly translate from Japanese and it actually come out bckwards becasue Japanese 9 times out of 10 you say the sentence backwards from the way you would say it in English. Thus sometime in translation it would come out backwards than what it is supped to say.

However i have just got through translating (Google Translating) Mayumi offical Bio from the game and it says she WAS born in the Demon realm, however somehow her parents found a way back to the Human relm when she was just an infant. So she was born in the Demon relm but was raised in the human relm. So apparently we all were right.
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Old 2006-04-11, 16:04   Link #38
Vexx
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eh, yeah, I've been learning Japanese for a while now. You just have to wait for the whole sentence before parsing since the verb and possible negation, tense, and "ka" all happen at the end.

But thanks for the research, and ya, it appears we were all "right" about Mayumi. Though it makes you wonder about that "crack in the dimensions..."
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Old 2006-04-11, 17:08   Link #39
Rin-Sama
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My theroy about the "crack" that it was cause by the failure of the 1st attempt of Project Yggdrasil. The massive explosion casue by all the raw magical engery more than likely caused a tear in the fabic of the dimentions. Thus the reason why Ama was sent into the Human realm during the explosion. The tear or crack remained unnoticed for about 10years , with the occasional person slipping between the realms, until finally they demons and Gods desided to force it the rest of the way open.
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Old 2006-04-11, 17:28   Link #40
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OK, looks like the Mayumi birthplace issue was worked out while I was off doing my own translating of the game text. I can manage some translating; it just takes me forever to look up the kanji, especially when my kanji dictionary program is not on the same computer as the game. But, based on my own paltry efforts, the version I posted earlier does seem to be correct.
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