AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Kimi ga Nozomu Eien

Notices

View Poll Results: Haruka or Mitsuki?
Haruka, and respondent is male 258 45.50%
Haruka, and respondent is female 53 9.35%
Mitsuki, and respondent is male 216 38.10%
Mitsuki, and respondent is female 40 7.05%
Voters: 567. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-04-10, 12:19   Link #61
Perishthethought
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Takayuki is a tremendously nice guy throughout the series - too nice for his own good, too nice for the girl's good, too nice to be a good lover (in the sense of providing commitment). Unfortunately, the women in this anime flock to him like a bee to honey. Rightly or wrongly, such as in the case of Mitsuki, they interpret this as romantic overtures, when in actuality, it is merely Takayuki wanting to see everybody happy. Upon this realisation, it destroys Mitsuki, particularly in the scene where she is beside the recovering Takayuki, where she recounts the tales of his niceities to her - such as fetching her stuff at school. At that moment, she realises that such behaviour is a Takayuki standard and not really an indication of any attraction (even though he DOES like Mitsuki, this is not evidence enough for her of his love because he does this with everybody). Where Takayuki falls down is that he not overtly, or consciously, nasty to anyone. He goes to great efforts to make sure people do not end up hurt or feeling betrayed (in the short term, at least). He simply cannot bear to see Haruka upset - particularly when she's lying ill in a hospital bed and wanting to do 'the spell'. Not only that, but 'the spell' seems to assist in recovering her short term memory, as it enables her to recount something important in her life from the previous day's experience (although whether that would happen naturally anyway over time is probably true).

He can't tell her he doesn't love her, and in fact, he also cannot face the prospect of her being upset - Haruka overreacts to an almost unhealthy degree when she doesn't get contact from Takayuki. "I thought I was hated" is a soundbite we hear EVERY time she does not hear from him for a couple of days or Takayuki tries to stay away. Even when he tells her he 'doesn't know' whether or not he likes her, she does not want to talk to him in case she finds out she "is hated". It is this level of emotional manipulation that forces Takayuki, who cannot bear to see people upset, and his obligation to Mitsuki (making sure he takes care of her because she's Mitsuki's 'special friend'), to tell Haruka he loves her. It is here where we first realise how extraordinarily kind he is - this isn't kindness on a scale the everyday person on the street is familiar with - this is kindness to the extent of really being made to put up with the worst kind of obligation to stop people being hurt. Not a lot of people are THAT kind. It is in this respect that he continues to maintain the facade in front of Haruka. The fact that he falls for her charms, despite their awkward courtship and lack of ANYTHING in common, is more to do with their compatability as a couple, a (percieved) compatibility which Taka has with virtually any woman who shows an interest, rather than any sense of obligation on Taka's part. The problem with Taka is that he doesn't really care what he wants over anybody else - he's utterly without want when they may contradict somebody else's. His needs and wants are dictated by other people. This, in part, causes him to be the perfect vehicle for some women to be romantically involved with. He's kind enough to be romantic, he's good looking enough (i.e. he's not grotesque) and he also won't contradict the woman who he's involved with's wishes for the future (even though he may demonstrate some heel dragging in the first place). A lot of women don't like jellyfish like Takayuki, being attracted to a certain amount of drive or intelligence. However, the major female players in this anime seem to thoroughly enjoy it, as well as a lot of the bit players demonstrate some form of attraction to him in some way or another - Daikujji, for example, enjoys his authority (being a spoilt little rich girl and probably never having had any) and the interplay between the two is somewhat affectionate and good-natured. This does not constitute romance, but is a demonstration of what somebody as distinct from Takayuki could find appealing in him.

In fact, a question that fails to get asked, and the one you raise, is that what exactly DO Mitsuki and Haruka see in Takayuki? Why SHOULD Takayuki be the object of their affection? Well, Haruka is quite obviously obsessed with him. She knows virtually all about him before they have exchanged even a word outside of pleasantaries. What Haruka sees in Taka is presumably more than simply the nice guy who helped her out by giving her the book she was struggling for, the only guy who gave her a hand. Having become infatuated with Takayuki, she wants to please him to the extent that he is capable of pleasing her. Cooking him his favourite food, that sort of thing. In return, Takayuki is again overly kind, doing things he previously had no interest in, such as going to University and getting Haruka a book she's had her eye on. The crucial difference between Haruka -3 years and Haruka +3 years is that she recognises that Takayuki bends over backwards for her - particularly in the context of him visiting her daily despite a huge amount of time passing. She expects these things of him while they're together originally - after waking up from the coma, she knows she has to give him something back. Only, she can't move her legs. She knows that to hold on to Taka, especially with Mitsuki on the scene, she thinks she's going to have to provide him with something other than dependency or obligation. Hence her frustration at being unable to give him something back, and knowing that Mitsuki HAD done a lot for him in the meantime. However, it is precisely this obligation that sends Taka to Mitsuki. It is Taka's causing of Mitsuki's pain, his (unintentional) hurting of her, that he wants to heal. It is not because of what Mitsuki did for him while he was depressed (although he is grateful for it and recognises it). What Taka is doing is not out of gratitude, instead it is out of wanting to repair damage he knows he has inflicted. This is especially sad from the view of a Haruka supporter (of which I am not) because she's beginning to overcome her infatuation of him and is recognising she really DOES love him - take for example the scene where she confesses to Mitsuki that her time in the hospital has made her realise just how much he means to her - she now 'really, really likes him'. In being only able to talk to each other, their compatibility shines through.

What does Mitsuki see in Taka? Well, she is, like Haruka, attracted to his kindness. She says as much. She also likes the level of security he provides her with - that despite throwing everything away, she still has Taka. When it looks like her emotional bedrock Taka might end up with Haruka, she can't handle it and goes seriously off the rails, abusing alchohol and sleeping with a stranger/Shinji (albeit at the suggestion of her co-worker). Mistuki shares the characteristic with Haruka of being unable to deal with rejection well - they both react to being unloved or unwanted with extemes of emotion. Haruka just simply can't handle it and shuts herself off from it - Mitsuki actively goes out and tries to take her mind off it with something else. Although both are not really workable responses, Haruka's method at least affords her some level of dignity. The common perception is that Mitsuki is somehow more 'needy' or emotionally unstable than Haruka - the only thing that differs between the two is how they handle (percieved) rejection from the one they love. Takayuki, interestingly, doesn't have to, in the course of the series, deal with rejection face-to-face. None of the women want to leave him (apart from Haruka giving him the gift of goodbye, although that was out of love, not a lack of it). When one of the women DOES leave him, through the hell of an accident, Taka is rendered utterly devoid of purpose or the ability to go on in life. He becomes completely decrepid and almost like an invalid, such is the extent to which he cannot cope with having the object of his (now established) affections leave him. He has to have somebody else to care for and be kind to, to get his life back on track. Enter Mitsuki!

Now, back to the gratitude thing. I do not think Taka 'owes' Mitsuki anything other than a thank you for her helping him out of his depression (and lets not forget, she did this more out of her desire for him than a genuinely selfless desire to see him healthy and moving on in life). It's just like somebody buying me a car out of the blue and I having to be indebted to them to an equivalent amount just because they did something for me of their own free will. I would be grateful, and would want to pay them back in some way, being kind, but that does not mean that they somehow OWN me to the extent that I must. This is exactly the same as when Daikujji orders masses of food. She wants Taka to pay her back because for her, the treat makes up for his time off. Only, there was nothing Taka could do while off, he did NOT ask for them to do all the extra work, it was unavoidable, and presumably because Daikujji has no idea of the real value of money, being wealthy, the expense far outweighs the percieved 'crime', which was leaving them to do extra work. This also proves Taka is somewhat able to say no to people, and not be a doormat, because he turns them flat down and thinks the debt he is being forced to pay is just completely inappropriate. Plus, of course, he can always squeeze her face until she gives up.

He goes to Mitsuki out of feeling somewhat responsible for the emotional trainwreck she has become. It is the very LEAST he can do, in this case, to go and make her feel better. This is why he prioritises Mitsuki OVER Haruka because she 'needs' him more than he does. Taka doesn't think Haruka needs him anymore... He still loves her, and she does him, but he isn't 'needed' to the extent he thinks he is with Mitsuki. And despite her telling him that she doesn't need him, he pulls off the reconciliation by claiming he needs her because he loves her. This is enough to get her back so the healing can begin. There's no doubt he loves her, HOWEVER, he loves her to the same extent he loves Haruka. And knowing how much he does out of a sense of obligation, his kindness, and his inability to handle people being upset when he can influence it otherwise, it is difficult to see whether this can be called anything approaching the traditional definition of love. But hey... if they're happy, why not?
Perishthethought is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-12, 12:47   Link #62
idofgrahf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the fields of elysuim
Send a message via MSN to idofgrahf
Like I said in the other post, so long as they are happy together, it doesn't really matter if Taka loves Mistuki, but since he said he does I'll just take his word for it. As for him being nice, lol I have several friends thats like him and it usually doesn't end well, ( he juggles with 4 instead of 2) like what they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. However, I do think that Taka loves Mistuki just as much as he loves Haruka, since Mitsuki is the reason that he is still standing in the anime, he owes her at least that much, and in the last 3 years he has gotten use to Mistuki being there while Haruka was comatoased, I guessing that Taka did not realize how much Mistuki means to him until she is gone. So in the end i would say he went to her partly of of obligation and mostly out of love.

I would have to disagree with you on the gratiude thing. Taka for one does not even realize how bad his situation is, buying a car for you out of the blue does not indebt you to that guy because you probably won't going to be in the hospital if you don't have that car. Taka on the other hand, if he keeps going would be, its like saying oh, I'm not indebted to the guy who found me lying in the desert, gave me water to help me get to the nearst town when he himself needs that water. Sorry, in Asian mentality which this show is made, that is called indebting. Just because they did it out of their own free will to save you does not releave you of obligation to repay them. The car thing, yes thats a gift and you certainly are no worst off if you don't get the car, but health wise, thats different.
__________________
Even if I go to hell I will live till the end of this world. If the world does not come to an end, then I will destroy it with my own hands!

Lacan/Grahf

Last edited by idofgrahf; 2006-04-12 at 14:31.
idofgrahf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-16, 07:10   Link #63
Perishthethought
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
I agree with you that the car was a bad example, however, the actions of another person to 'save' you are their responsibility and not yours. I 'would' want to repay them, however, I am not bound to by anything other than my own percieved responsiblity in wanting to ensure that they are treated with at least an equivalent amount of respect. There is literally nothing making me act in that way apart from my own desire to see their actions provided with reparation, which is something I hold within myself as a result of my life's experiences up to that point. I think that we can agree on. Whether anyone SHOULD act in reparation is what I have in question. It is a question of whether they see it as their responsibility or not, and for the most part, Taka doesn't. I'm not saying that is correct, or morally reprehensible, but Taka does not recognise gratitude as a motive for being with Mitsuki. He recognises all she has done for him, true, but the reason he gives for the two of them being together is that he can heal her wounds. If you can take him at face value in him telling her he loves her... why not this?

While the anime is made in Japan, and you're right, IS very japanese, the motivation for the characters' actions are provided in the anime. They do not need to make appeals to cultural norms or values in order to explain Taka's actions. While gratitude does probably figure as a possible motive for Taka's actions, one of many possible motives, it is not a notion he entertains while making his decisions. There is nothing more Japanese in Taka's actions than anybody else in such a situation of indecisive love. Where the show is so effective is in that Taka has no guiding principals in making a decision over who he should end up loving - if it were as simple as showing gratitude, he would go with Mitsuki every time, and what's more, would choose her a lot earlier on in the anime than the 14 episodes of tortured decision making we get. Instead, it is the weighing up of what each girl means to him, and his own internal constitution as an archetypal 'nice guy' that dictates his actions, not that of any cultural institution. As far as the notion of 'gratitude' is concerned, I would argue that it is something that you have brought to the table as an attempt to rationalise and make sense of Taka's actions, or at least give them some legitimacy, where instead it has no presence in the anime at all. And while the anime is wrapped and steeped in that which makes it Japanese, each action is explained and we are given enough of a demonstration of the thought processes of the characters to make such leaps of faith in discerning motivation not only unnecessary, but erroneous.

Literally, it is all there for you.
Perishthethought is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 15:41   Link #64
idofgrahf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the fields of elysuim
Send a message via MSN to idofgrahf
The reason he can't chose mistuki at the very start was because he like Mistuki feels responsable for Haruka's condition, he was after all the one that was late for the date after all. If he didn't feel at least a little guilt for that then I would think him sub-human.

Secondly, I was the one arguing that Taka actuall love Mitsuki in all the other posts, and we should simply take his word for it. I am however saying that if nothing else, even IF Taka chose Haruka, he still needs to repay the debt he owes, it may not show much but Taka is a japanese, I don't need to tell you how honor bound Japanese are. He's action shows this as well, yes he felt guilty for Haruka's accident, but did he need to feel guilty of it for so long? Did he need to accept Haruka's parents request to vist the hospitial again? No. I would say he did it partly out of guilt and mostly because Honor demands that he takes care of Haruka even after 3 years. Same thing, repaying Mistuki would be the honorable thing to do and he will do it.
__________________
Even if I go to hell I will live till the end of this world. If the world does not come to an end, then I will destroy it with my own hands!

Lacan/Grahf
idofgrahf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-18, 18:31   Link #65
Xinil
Blargh
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 29
Send a message via ICQ to Xinil Send a message via AIM to Xinil
-going back to the OP-

<-- Male

Big, big Mitsuki fan. Unlike some people, I just don't really like the shy/quiet types. Can't really explain why, but that's just how I am. I like an active, open, outgoing girl. Good example: Chidori vs. Tessa in FMP. You should be able to tell I love Chidori from my short explanation.

So yeah, definitely Mitsuki all the way. Definitely liked her better with longer hair too. Short hair is nice, but if I could choose....long hair. I wouldn't complain either way though.
__________________
Xinil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-04-26, 19:11   Link #66
enixxx
Taicho
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the Heart of Canada
Send a message via MSN to enixxx
Im a male, and im rooting for HARUKA!

O man, o man... I chose her... because she was the first person that Takayuki kissed, and they also did that charm together... Im a bit angry at Takayuki.. because he would betray his first love, and also im dissapointed in Mitsuki... for saying that Haruka isnt her bestfriend... *SIGH*

But im I was takayuki... I would make the same choice that he made... becuase their was nothing he could really do... BASICALLY! He got dumped by haruka...
enixxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-01, 15:07   Link #67
Deathkillz
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk, England
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Deathkillz
i am male and voted for Mitsuki all the way.

i know many dont seem to like her due to whet she did ie stealing Takayuki...however i can appreciate how much Mitsuki suffered for her actions. she loved Takayuki however at the same time she didnt want to betray Haruka, but when the accident happened and Haruka was put in a coma Mitsuki felt that she could get close to Takayuki without Haruka knowing which means no betrail.

i felt sorry for Mitsuki because her love and affection was just shoved away by Takayuki (dam him!!!!) and what Mitsuki was left with was no one...who could imagine how lonely and pithetic she felt.

i for one would have just taken Mitsuki and let the past be past...who knows how many years or if ever Haruka would have woken up...and in reality you cannot just expect a person to stop their way of life and to wait for someone whos in a coma...she could have never had woken up...which would be tradgic

in all i really hated Tatayuki's actions towards the poor girls...he played with their emotions too much which lead to ultimate pain and maybe years of unhealble emotion scarrs...

(edit: spelling)
__________________

Siggy: hohohohoho~ | AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ | Summer2009 early review
Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS
Deathkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-01, 17:03   Link #68
ApathyEcstasy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
i wish akane was a choice
ApathyEcstasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-01, 17:34   Link #69
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
^Hehe ...Akane was really hawt...even hawtter in Maniax....I wonder how the story would have played out if Taka had fallen for Akane and they had to hide it from Haruka ...That might have been a better dynamic then hooking up with the lush...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-03, 12:27   Link #70
idofgrahf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the fields of elysuim
Send a message via MSN to idofgrahf
In the game there was a path for Akane, where taka ended up with her, play it and you'll find out.
__________________
Even if I go to hell I will live till the end of this world. If the world does not come to an end, then I will destroy it with my own hands!

Lacan/Grahf
idofgrahf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-03, 20:09   Link #71
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
^No thanks...Getting aroused by H-games just isn't my thing..I'd rather someone just tell me...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-04, 05:32   Link #72
Perishthethought
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
If you enjoy being asked by Akane whether this is the right thing to do, and then somewhat taking advantage of her, then go for it. To that end, going with Akane in the game is the choice of the person who wants to abuse a close relationship.

In the anime, it is Akane who gets dangerously close to Takayuki, who in this iteration, just does not even recognise her affection for him outside that of a pseudo-relative. Akane straddles the difficult older brother/love object distinction in much the same way as the classic 'Oniisama' series (which is why you see the doll from that series' opening and which features quite prominently in the series floating in the river in the Akane centric episodes late on the KGNE series, where she 'can't go on like this anymore' - i.e. is having a tough time separating her feelings), and even displays some overt affection (the taxi ride, the presentation of shells on the beach, 'I wish it was always like this' where she and Takayuki are alone on said beach). She even tacitly admits this affection in Akane Maniax, where she is forced to confront it by Gouda's actions. Instead, the anime Takayuki treats her merely as sister, coddles her somewhat, and takes care of her out of nothing more than a familial responsibility.

Knowing that, whether you wish to take advantage of that responsibility in game is your choice. I personally wouldn't recommend it outside of being of completionist!
Perishthethought is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-08, 17:47   Link #73
Rafal
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perishthethought
If you enjoy being asked by Akane whether this is the right thing to do, and then somewhat taking advantage of her, then go for it. To that end, going with Akane in the game is the choice of the person who wants to abuse a close relationship.
Hmph, when I was playing the game I never wanted to start a relationship with Akane (I was aiming for Haruka), but still I ended up with her in the end somehow. I just liked her and wanted to make up with her but somehow the game interpreted that as me having romantic interests in Akane. Before I realized it Akane started to act all hot and emo around me and there were no options for me to back out anymore. I was forced to watch how Takayuki betrayed Haruka once again without me being able to stop it. What a cruel, cruel game this is...
Rafal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-12, 14:04   Link #74
idofgrahf
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the fields of elysuim
Send a message via MSN to idofgrahf
like all dating sims, you have to be nice to the girl your aiming for while ignoring the others as much as possible, if your that nice to Akane then yeah you will end up with her. If your that concerned about betraying Haruka, then most of the game isn't for you, considering there is only a few routs for Haruka and alot more with the other girls.
__________________
Even if I go to hell I will live till the end of this world. If the world does not come to an end, then I will destroy it with my own hands!

Lacan/Grahf
idofgrahf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-12, 16:25   Link #75
Rafal
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Heh, well I didn't mean to sound that serious in my post, I love the game and have played through almost all endings, and with played I mean I've read every single line without skipping (with the exception of a few H-scenes which I found rather distasteful). In my first go through the game I just made the choices as I would have made them if I were in that situation and I ended up with Akane (well, I actually ended up with both Akane and Haruka... sort of.. ). I know where I made the wrong choices but well, if I were in that situation I really wouldn't have done anything else.
Rafal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-19, 14:14   Link #76
Shredder
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Mitsuki bc she's way hotter. And the blue hair was super, especially when it was long. She had mental problems though. Mitsuki was taller and sportier. Haruka no good at all.
__________________
Shredder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-19, 16:28   Link #77
Circular Logic
土は幻に
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredder
Mitsuki bc she's way hotter. And the blue hair was super, especially when it was long. She had mental problems though. Mitsuki was taller and sportier. Haruka no good at all.
Nice reason

In the end, both of them deserved Takayuki as much as each other. Everyone gets screwed over in KgNE.
Circular Logic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-20, 00:31   Link #78
Shredder
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006


For sure no comparison between these two. Takayuki ruined everything, series should've ended with him getting hit by a car or something and then everyone else takes care of their affairs. Actually I thought there was a scene where he nearly got hit by a truck, just missed though!
__________________
Shredder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-29, 20:34   Link #79
Decel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Mitsuki by a mile. She looks the most mature of the two and that long blue hair is the nail in the coffin. To me Haruka's the embodiment of a little sister, even more so than Akane (she's more of the next-door kid). I have to admit though that Haruka looks less loli-ish after her coma with her longer hair and seemingly more mature face.

Personality-wise they were both accurately depicted on the humanism scale. However I have a hard time depicting Haruka's love for Take to be more than infactuation. Mitsuki definitely loved Take deeply, which brought most of her misery.
__________________
2006- The year of the invasion of the Suzumiya Haruhi avatars and signature logos
Decel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-05-29, 23:40   Link #80
Shredder
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Haha yes good to see someone else siding with that blue hair, beautiful. Athletes are always most sexy too--compare that to rehab and wheelchair bound! I thought Haruka looked haggard after her coma, it freaked me out. She did look childish before but at least somewhat robust, although not as much as Mitsuki of course.

Good observation about the infatuation too. Mitsuki could've gone for someone better and kept up with her swimming dreams too, tsk. That "spell" performed repeatedly also annoyed me, what an insecure girl who feels the need to lock Take in using dubious magical methods or psychological tricks.
Shredder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.