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Old 2006-04-19, 07:16   Link #61
reinloch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
I think space combat could be very effectively fought with drilling devices Nothing puts the fear of death in an astronaught more than a half dozen little holes in his ship.
A real space-faring warship (unlike the crap in anime) is built by assembling lots of self-contained modules which can be jettisoned in the event of fire. Depressurization is not really a problem because in combat footing, a half decent crew will be wearing spacesuits.
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Old 2006-04-19, 07:41   Link #62
mizuki_tohru
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I predict that realistic space fight is never animatized.
I collaborated in suggestion of a animatized plan of the "History of the airospace force" series recently.
Science-fiction novel series "History of the airospace force" was written by Tani Koushu. It include Battle description by a war vessel in the solar system. I show a link to translation of a short story by a fan in the following.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~FT1t-oca...e/range-0.html
To be frank, I don't think when animatized plan of "History of the airospace force" is successful. It becomes a too quiet thing.
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Old 2006-04-19, 10:50   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
THat cant always be accounted for. What if your squad meets with another ally squad? Say one that was lost or something. AS soon as you see them you gonna blow them up?
Good call, but here's where my argument against "long distance warfare" is proven valid
You can't be sure untill you take a look

"Sir, large fleet 50 ly away!"
"Is it one of ours?
"Asking for identification,..."
"No! Don't! If it's....."

"Sir,... 250 FTL projectiles incoming"
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Old 2006-04-19, 12:56   Link #64
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I'd say in space their should be laws about the ethics in space combat. Therefore its not just every man for themselves no matter what side they are on.
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Old 2006-04-19, 14:27   Link #65
Forbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
I'd say in space their should be laws about the ethics in space combat. Therefore its not just every man for themselves no matter what side they are on.
And of course you watched Gundam Seed where they violated those ethics eh?
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Old 2006-04-19, 15:44   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
I'd say in space their should be laws about the ethics in space combat. Therefore its not just every man for themselves no matter what side they are on.
and who is going to enforce these ethics?


I always laught when people talk rules of war. The whole point of war to killed enough of the other side that they either don't want to fight anymore or don't have enough people to fight anymore. Winners or loser no one is going to follow the rules if by breaking them you can get a advantage.
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Old 2006-04-19, 16:12   Link #67
rooboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
and who is going to enforce these ethics?


I always laught when people talk rules of war. The whole point of war to killed enough of the other side that they either don't want to fight anymore or don't have enough people to fight anymore. Winners or loser no one is going to follow the rules if by breaking them you can get a advantage.
Well, that's not _precisely_ true. Plenty of people will be willing to follow the rules; however, the rules are only useful as long as everyone's following them. The first time someone's willing to _not_ follow them upsets the entire apple-cart. However, there's a long history of "civilized" warfare, and just as long a history of people who broke the rules (which is easy to do as it's not like there's a referee out there calling penalties. )
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Old 2006-04-19, 16:51   Link #68
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
I'd say in space their should be laws about the ethics in space combat. Therefore its not just every man for themselves no matter what side they are on.


Depends on how you look at it: in WWII pilots had a 'code' not to shoot parachutes


ofcourse here's "Ethics" in space:

-if you see someone being jettisoned form their lifesupport (ie: ship, pod anything with an atmosphere)
do you leave them to suffocate/haemorrhage to their death, or put a bullit through them and end their misery?

If it were me floating out there: Option #2 please!
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Old 2006-04-19, 17:19   Link #69
Linker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtyped
I'd say in space their should be laws about the ethics in space combat. Therefore its not just every man for themselves no matter what side they are on.
Ultimately the point of these "ethics" is that when your at the receiving end of potentially death causing devices you might get away .. or not suffer as much. It'll work if everyone thinks they are equally likely of having a situation like this happen to them... Enforcing something like this by force would be quite difficult

Quote:
God calls everyone to a meeting.
God: Who wants peace?
*All but one person raises hand*
God: Who wants war?
*That one person raises his hand*
God (pointing to that person): He wins.
If one person breaks the "ethics", it'll crumple away.


And Newtyped: amusing discussion about gravity, lasers, radar, and sonar back there, enough to get me to actually make an account and say something


Radar won' work well in space because of its enormous power requirements. Radiation spread spherically therefore subject to inverse square law, as distance increase power requirement to maintain same radar reception quality is twice the distances squared (twice since it has to go to the target and back), then you have to deal with pinpointing which direction the reflected radar came from, 0.1 degrees off and you can be off by a few million kilometers.
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Old 2006-04-19, 17:46   Link #70
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Of course, should technology somehow advance to far enough extents over the next thousands of years everything we said here could go out the window.
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Old 2006-04-19, 18:03   Link #71
Dragnfly@Gamefaqs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinloch
A real space-faring warship (unlike the crap in anime) is built by assembling lots of self-contained modules which can be jettisoned in the event of fire. Depressurization is not really a problem because in combat footing, a half decent crew will be wearing spacesuits.
Woah! We have real ones!? Can I get one at Walmart!? Does it makes sounds when you push the buttons?

Nah, seriously. I get what you mean and agree that we'd totally need spacesuits on if it came to being attacked. And if that were the case then stealthing it up for a suprise attack would be favourable.

But then again when are suprise attacks not favourable? I mean other than when you're on the receiving end of one
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Old 2006-04-19, 18:23   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linker
Radar won' work well in space because of its enormous power requirements. Radiation spread spherically therefore subject to inverse square law, as distance increase power requirement to maintain same radar reception quality is twice the distances squared (twice since it has to go to the target and back), then you have to deal with pinpointing which direction the reflected radar came from, 0.1 degrees off and you can be off by a few million kilometers.
Don't forget weird tricks gravity can pull in space (even bend light)
pinpointing a deflection over a certain distance would be useless
better would be a "tripwire" system but the size (and powerrequierments) needed
would be even bigger to make it efficient

I'd say drop mines over half the galaxy,... everything that'll try to come through
-comet or battlecruiser- would be noticed, and no longer be a problem
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Old 2006-04-19, 18:29   Link #73
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space is 3d though, instead of drawing a line and see who cross it, you need to draw a plane, that's like instead of using 20 mines, you uses 400 mines.. but if you got the money and resources go for it =)

for battle purposes where you deploy drones to gather surveilence data during battle isn't as bad since its limited in a specific area. but just mining random plots of space might be prohibitively expensive...
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Old 2006-04-19, 18:52   Link #74
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linker
space is 3d though, instead of drawing a line and see who cross it, you need to draw a plane, that's like instead of using 20 mines, you uses 400 mines.. but if you got the money and resources go for it =)

for battle purposes where you deploy drones to gather surveilence data during battle isn't as bad since its limited in a specific area. but just mining random plots of space might be prohibitively expensive...
setting up a detectionnet would be a much larger and more expensive problem

Mines can be deployed in a spherical formation (prefereably around your homeplanet/system)
there's no maintenance ( just send in a few 100000 new ones every 20 or so years)
Unlike radar, mines cannot be tricked easily/quickly without giving away your position
and unlike radar, mines are a direct threat to an enemy, 2 bangs for the price of one
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Old 2006-04-19, 20:17   Link #75
Karnot
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Unlike radar, mines cannot be tricked easily/quickly without giving away your position
And unlike radar mines can be evaded by two-years old. What, batches of explosives just drifting in space in plain view ? Oh yeah, very scary, and military efficient.

Would you people stop talking crap and get back to space ANIME warfare ?
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Old 2006-04-19, 20:18   Link #76
Forbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ
setting up a detectionnet would be a much larger and more expensive problem

Mines can be deployed in a spherical formation (prefereably around your homeplanet/system)
there's no maintenance ( just send in a few 100000 new ones every 20 or so years)
Unlike radar, mines cannot be tricked easily/quickly without giving away your position
and unlike radar, mines are a direct threat to an enemy, 2 bangs for the price of one
Mines are only effective against covert operations.

Against a battleship, the ship would detonate the mines from a distance or send in dummy ships that would predetonate them making a perfect passage.
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Old 2006-04-19, 20:38   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
And of course you watched Gundam Seed where they violated those ethics eh?
never seen gundam seed
so of course i didnt
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Old 2006-04-19, 20:40   Link #78
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You could hide mines in meteors.... (that still are within their Lagrange points)
tho mines are dangerous if they fall out of their orbit and drift towards the planet.
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Old 2006-04-19, 20:51   Link #79
rooboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
Mines are only effective against covert operations.

Against a battleship, the ship would detonate the mines from a distance or send in dummy ships that would predetonate them making a perfect passage.
Really it's easier than that, you just jettison your garbage in the direction of the minefield and sit back. Though it does bring up the whole space junk problem. Though I guess since it's around the other guy's planet, it's not really your problem anyway.
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Old 2006-04-19, 21:01   Link #80
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by rooboy666
Really it's easier than that, you just jettison your garbage in the direction of the minefield and sit back. Though it does bring up the whole space junk problem. Though I guess since it's around the other guy's planet, it's not really your problem anyway.
That reminds of the Irresponsible Captain Tylor Ep where Tylor order all ships garbage jettsion in fornt of the enemy ship to provide cover for escape I just love that series.
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