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Old 2006-04-25, 20:17   Link #41
panzerfan
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I copied and pasted the conversation on "haruhi marble" here. (As long as we don't go into comparison of which anime's better, we should be able to have some fun with this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by melange, in response to
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan's sig
YUKI.N>I am the backbone of my network. I have closed over a thousand ports; not aware of latency, nor aware of noise... yet there has been no disconnect... so I pray. Unlimited Dimensional Interface.
Hilarious! Though... Yuki does know of "noise"
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
(Working right now to amend that. However in my defense I am sure Archer certainly knows of life and death.
Edit. Decides to keep most of it as-is. Sounds funnier this way)

O yea, that bat and how battered it got is very hilerious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
rofl, someone must have had access to the "Haruhi Marble"


I can only assume that this would be the archer fight that was so rudely cut off in FSN
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange, in response
"Reality Marble" huh... sounds fitting Actually wouldn't be a bad way to describe some of the things that will show up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan, in response
(ok, now you got me started)

I wonder what "noble phantasm" the bat's supposively modelled after?
(I never thought of the enclosed space as a reality marble but it makes strange sense somehow...)
Spoiler:


Suddenly, the image of a crossover pic in the picture thread flashes before my mind.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
Quickly! a .gif needs to be made at [17:39] to [17:41] (Yuki chanting at light speed) with panzerfan's sig typing out on the left side!

The bat is obviously
Spoiler for for spoiling another series...go figure:
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange, in response to panzerfan's comment
Although my knowledge of Fate/Stay Night is quite limited...
Spoiler for Haruhi-Shirou similarity, possible later ep spoilers:

Should we shift this to the Speculation or Ontology thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane, responding to melange
Actually you've about nailed it on the head.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant, to Shirobane
No! No! No!

The bat must be Ge Bolg - "The Spear of Impaling Barbed Death"

The bat already decided where the ball is going to go before it was even swung, so the predetermined 100% accuracy must mean it is Ge Bolg, the spear that cannot miss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan, bluntly inflcting unneeded pain on self
(I am going to work on that gif afterall. This is gonna be fun...)

Spoiler:

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
Spoiler for weird FSN/Haruhi Crossover Madness:

Mustn't forget that
Spoiler for later Haruhi eps:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by melange
You may want to indicate which series you're spoiling in your spoilers
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y weighing in
Spoiler:


=================
Anyway, I got the hi-res version now. *is happy*

Yuki kaaii~
←is a big Yuki fan.


Now that I've thought about it, both the anime and the mangas didn't use Itou-san's original design for the 神人, did they? Itou-san's original version was more... human-like. Eh.


moe experts will probably find this "just-before-bite" shot more moe than the actual bite shot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant
Does that mean Haruhi is the Golden Pikachu? (FSN in-joke. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
oh please do not let this thread degenerate into stupid comparisons between one set of anime (Fate/stay night) to another (Suzumiya Haruhi). They are different anime with different story, so it's pointless to discuss about such things. I don't want to see such a magnificent sakuga-quality anime degrade itself into the likes that I see over at the Naruto forum.
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Old 2006-04-26, 09:06   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celcius
Spoiler for Butterfly Effect:
Spoiler for Butterfly Effect:
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Old 2006-04-26, 14:56   Link #43
Psieye
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The Science Post

Ok... gonna split this post in 2 because they're huge and "Reality Marble" has nothing to do with the Physics I'm going to talk on below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Psyeye did alot of homework on the main Suzumiya Haruhi thread regarding the OP bits of equations that scrolls through the canvas, so it's not just you that ended up hitting the web/book.
Ah actually, most of the time spent for that post was on rewinding/pausing/slow viewing the OP to note down the equations themselves. Everything I've written about them I knew already - I'm still an Undergraduate Physicist (who did some Chemistry in his first year too). ^^;;


Quantum Computers

We're still trying to find a suitable candidate for use as a Qubit. Individual electrons (trapped in tiny potential wells that we call Quantum Dots) are an option, as well as whole atoms (e.g. doped atoms of one element in the lattice of another). What's manipulated can either be the spin or the energy level (ground state vs 1st excited state) of the qubit candidate in question - something that can be in a quantum superposition of both while unobserved. Superconducting qubits are another option - where the current goes clockwise and anti-clockwise at the same time, or where there's an extra pair of electrons in the superconducting loop or not.

Well, if anyone's really interested I can email you the Literature Review I did on this topic last year. Let's move onto other topics.


Uncertainty Principle

Delta_x * Delta_p >= h_bar/2 (in one dimension) which is an absolutely tiny number (~10^-34 in magnitude for standard SI units)

where Delta_x = uncertainty in Position
and Delta_p = uncertainty in Momentum


That h_bar/2 is so small is why the Uncertainty Principle is only significant for extreme microscopic levels. At the macroscopic, if I look at a book on the table and measure where it is, you know I can't tell whether it's 13.612951240351 cm away from the table edge or 13.612951240352 cm {Disclaimer: this figure's order of magnitude of uncertainty was made up: it gets my point across even if inaccurate} - and frankly I won't care. That same level of uncertainty (10^-14 m, with appropriate corresponding uncertainty for momentum of ~10^-20 kg m/s) is absolutely huge for an isloated lone proton though (which is ~10^-15 m in size) - that proton could be anywhere within 10 lengths of itself at a given time (while it's moving).

Theoretically, the above equation says it is possible to know exactly where a quantum sized particle is at a given time - but you'd have no idea how fast and in what direction it's travelling. Conversely, you can know the exact speed and mass of a given particle, but you'd have no idea where in this Universe it was located. Normally, we have a balance of uncertainty between the two.


Hmm, I guess the only reason this is relevant to Haruhi-ism is:
Spoiler for I get the feeling everyone knows this about Mikuru anyway:



Drake Equation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danj
I think you mean



This is the Drake Equation, the equation which tells you the number of alien civilizations in our galaxy with which we might expect to be able to communicate. I seem to be one of a very small number of people who recognised this
*nods* yeah, I must say I was surprised when kj1980 first mentioned this. It is indeed more important for directing our thoughts than on any answer it can give (which has ludicrously huge error ranges).


Information Entropy
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
Pretty sure that's H(X) = -\sum_{x\in X} \log p(x) , which is the standard equation for informational entropy of a random variable X.
Ah, that would make sense. Thanks for the pointer.
(Um yeah, I never took the Information Theory courses so not much I can say here unless I go read up on it ^^;


Main Topic: Time Travel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danj
Also, for anyone wishing to understand more about the physics and metaphysics of time travel, I highly recommend reading this article: SF Chronophysics.
That's a good link, and I'll base my talk on Time Travel on it. First, I believe that there's only 2 core interpretations of Time Travel and that everything else (which isn't sloppy for the sake of narrative) is some fusion or subset of the two: the One Timeline Only version (Type 1 as described above) and the Parallel Worlds version (Type 4). Therefore Type 3 is just a sub-set of Type 4 (think - it's identical if you only ever focus on one timeline at a time in the narrative), whereas Type 2 is a sloppy One Timeline version which is convenient for SF but messy from a Physicist's point of view. Yeah, I really hate "OMG, you stopped his parents from getting together! That person will disappear in X amount of time unless we bring them back together!!!" plots which use Type 2 AND delayed causality.



One Timeline Only theory can be uncomfortable for some people since it can be closely linked with the concept of Predetermined Fate. It can also get really messy with Time Paradoxes. Though mind you, think about this if you're uncomfortable with Fate/Hitsuzen:

How do you tell apart whether Free Will exists or Fate is instead true? If all attempts to read Fate (e.g. fortune telling etc) are interpreted as trying to approximate a model for Fate and get some readings out of it (hey, this is exactly what Science is when applied to everything else - belief in your theory and trying to get some meaningful predictions/measurements out of it. Disclaimer: I can lay down arguments and debates without necessarily having a strong opinion on what I'm saying, so don't assume my personal opinion is X just because i'm writing about it), then any instances of 'defying Fate' is due to an error in reading Fate than Fate failing. All you have is Causality - whether you believe it's applied only at the individual decision scale or in a Fate scale, you can't actually differentiate between the two conclusively. In other words, Fate vs Free Will is a matter of personal belief and both sides can take up Frames of Thought where they can hold to their belief without shaking.


Parallel Worlds is mirrored by Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. Noein covered this concept quite nicely - time travel is actually an act of hopping dimensions to a parallel world which is exactly like your own past (maybe not quite but almost) up to the point where you pop in. If you "go back in time to fix a problem", then you're actually escaping to another world and saving that instead of your original one. If you then "return to the present and enjoy the world without said problem" then you're not really back in your original world, but yet another world (but you can't tell the difference and just don't care). Alternatively, maybe you choose to stay in that timeline that you 'fixed the problem' in - then you've just migrated to this timeline for a happier existence (and you can co-exist with the 'you' in this dimension once you get over it as it's not really 'you', but a perfect clone of you). If a story ever bothered to look back at the original timeline, it would be depressing as you'd have disappeared instead of 'time travelling' (assuming you can never make it back - if you do then you just realise you've been helping some other timeline and the problem hasn't changed here).


A friend of mine came up with one very interesting thought regarding this "quantum forking" of timelines and the Butterfly Effect: the infinity of different timelines will all converge again at the End of Time when the Universe 'dies'. To clarify, first we must make the assumption that (or more accurately, 'choose to only consider the subset of Universes which') all timelines share the same fundamental constants and laws of Physics (else we can't even begin to conceive and debate on these different Universes - gotta have some ground of familiarity afterall). If all timelines have the same Origin (Big Bang, or some other creation theory), then ultimately they'll all have the same End (whether it's entropic heat death of the Universe or Big Crunch, that doesn't matter - point is all timelines will do one or the other). Therefore while we're forking and branching out timelines all the time, somehow we have to bring them back together again. And one way of doing that is noting that not all changes produce a Butterfly Effect:

Imagine 2 different timelines where in both I put a book down to write a letter then pick it back up again. An infinity of other parallel worlds aside, if these two particular timelines only differ by exactly what position I put down my book in, then essentially they'll be identical and would have 'merged' after I pick up the book again - I won't care whether it was 1 cm to the left compared to in the other world, or that it was angled differently - I'll pick it up again regardless.

There will be a myriad of 'choices' which ultimately don't have a lasting impact. I could roll a dice and I get a 4 in one timeline and a 5 in the other timeline, but what if I was rolling the dice because I was bored and didn't care how it landed? Or what if I didn't even bother looking at the dice because I just wanted to throw something? Now mind you, something a HUGE as killing one person would bring a whole slew of changes but way in the end it'll all even out and become indifferent again (though this might take an Eternity to achieve).



Erm... there is no 'Conclusion' to this post is there?

Final point I want to make? Science is a lot like Religion when you know enough about it - it's not absolute, there are alternate versions_of/substitutes_for your theories and it becomes a matter of personal belief and trying to prove the others wrong with extremely-hard-to-find-and-justify evidence. All our Quantum talk above coule be crude and inaccurate approximations to Reality ^^


So... yeah... now to actually talk about the world of Suzumiya Haruhi based on a loose agreement to the above 'background knowledge' - if I've succeeded in convincing you (assuming I explained it clearly - it certainly won't be for many people) of this background that is (it is plenty disputable yes)... ^^;;
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Old 2006-04-26, 15:10   Link #44
Psieye
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The "Reality Marble" post

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
I copied and pasted the conversation on "haruhi marble" here. (As long as we don't go into comparison of which anime's better, we should be able to have some fun with this)
Hmm, actually I feel "Marble Phantasm" is a closer description than "Reality Marble" for the case we're discussing. For reference, the two are explained way down here in the Moonlit World website.

Reality Marble is a space where you can only do one characteristic thing unique to the caster, but in that space you can break the laws of nature to do it. Marble Phantasm can do anything within the laws of nature also in a given space but you're not limited to "only one thing" unlike the Reality Marble.

Spoiler for Novel Vol 1 (Yuutsu) Ch 5 event, which hasn't been done in the anime yet:


Spoiler for On Haruhi the character:



Hehe, it's still a good crossover comparison ^^
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Old 2006-04-26, 15:13   Link #45
panzerfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psieye

A friend of mine came up with one very interesting thought regarding this "quantum forking" of timelines and the Butterfly Effect: the infinity of different timelines will all converge again at the End of Time when the Universe 'dies'. To clarify, first we must make the assumption that (or more accurately, 'choose to only consider the subset of Universes which') all timelines share the same fundamental constants and laws of Physics (else we can't even begin to conceive and debate on these different Universes - gotta have some ground of familiarity afterall). If all timelines have the same Origin (Big Bang, or some other creation theory), then ultimately they'll all have the same End (whether it's entropic heat death of the Universe or Big Crunch, that doesn't matter - point is all timelines will do one or the other). Therefore while we're forking and branching out timelines all the time, somehow we have to bring them back together again. And one way of doing that is noting that not all changes produce a Butterfly Effect:

Imagine 2 different timelines where in both I put a book down to write a letter then pick it back up again. An infinity of other parallel worlds aside, if these two particular timelines only differ by exactly what position I put down my book in, then essentially they'll be identical and would have 'merged' after I pick up the book again - I won't care whether it was 1 cm to the left compared to in the other world, or that it was angled differently - I'll pick it up again regardless.

There will be a myriad of 'choices' which ultimately don't have a lasting impact. I could roll a dice and I get a 4 in one timeline and a 5 in the other timeline, but what if I was rolling the dice because I was bored and didn't care how it landed? Or what if I didn't even bother looking at the dice because I just wanted to throw something? Now mind you, something a HUGE as killing one person would bring a whole slew of changes but way in the end it'll all even out and become indifferent again (though this might take an Eternity to achieve).
Hmm... would we actually be seeing this butterfly effect as we speak? Considering how that microscopic subatomic quantum phenomons are almost never seen in the plane of reality that we exist in? Could it be the macroscopic world in itself is a convergence of all the possible outcomes from the subatomic level of interaction?

What would happen then in the forever expanding model of the universe where there is no 'end in time'? Will we wind up with no convergence of alternate space-time?


on the phantasm
Spoiler:


(It is little wonder why so many physicists become philosophers...)
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-04-26 at 15:26.
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Old 2006-04-26, 15:40   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Hmm... would we actually be seeing this butterfly effect as we speak? Considering how that microscopic subatomic quantum phenomons are almost never seen in the plane of reality that we exist in? Could it be the macroscopic world in itself is a convergence of all the possible outcomes from the subatomic level of interaction?

What would happen then in the forever expanding model of the universe where there is no 'end in time'? Will we wind up with no convergence of alternate space-time?
I don't think we can say we're seeing the 'reverse butterfly effect merging', but then again I do have a preference for Many Worlds as opposed to "One World only" (even if I do prefer to do my calcuations in the "One World" 'collapsing wavefunctions' interpretation). Or to word it better, this reality we exist in is a convergence of a great many quantum-level and other trivially minor variations and possibilities - but not ALL as there will be some which do have a Butterfly-esque effect.


As for what happens in the Open Universe model's End of Time... dah, can't remember the exact details but it comes down to 'heat death'. All matter decays (nuclei eventually all become Iron nuclei which is the most stable or break down before that - and the Iron will eventually 'evaporate' away too) into the unbound energy form ("matter is solidified energy"); Entropy is maxed out (it cannot increase anymore) and there'd be no gradient in Temperature/Energy therefore everything looks bleak and uniform and in utter entropy. Mmm no, I need to do some revision before I can actually define what 'entropy' is for you as applied to this scenario. Ask me again a month later or separately read it up?
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Old 2006-04-26, 15:53   Link #47
panzerfan
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(here's something I found randomly) http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home...in/quantum.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psieye
this reality we exist in is a convergence of a great many quantum-level and other trivially minor variations and possibilities - but not ALL as there will be some which do have a Butterfly-esque effect.
Good point. Variation from the limiting value in the convergence might even get magnified as more and more things are compounded to the whole 'equation', although that might be limited to specific bounds (or out of the ones that we can physically observe within our lifetime).

A thing I am not sure about is whether or not if the alternate planes will be just as spread out as our plane (with several dimentions rolled up as M-theory suggests)...

Going back to the evatoration. I remember a talk of how that eventually we will wind up with gigantic Hydrogen atoms since that is the simplest atomic structure to make and with no such thing as absolute vaccum, the only things that should remain and potentially form an 'atom' on a very large scale... provided that not all matter gets turned back into what amounts to universal background radiation.
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Old 2006-04-26, 16:09   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
Going back to the evatoration. I remember a talk of how that eventually we will wind up with gigantic Hydrogen atoms since that is the simplest atomic structure to make and with no such thing as absolute vaccum, the only things that should remain and potentially form an 'atom' on a very large scale... provided that not all matter gets turned back into what amounts to universal background radiation.
Simplest doesn't mean Stablest - otherwise Nuclear Fusion of Deuterium wouldn't be energetically favourable.

How the hell you define an 'atom' that big I do not know - unless we're talking about Neutron Stars.
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Old 2006-04-26, 16:18   Link #49
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That's a good question. Conventional wisdom regarding nuclearstrong/nuclearweak force would not work (and how big an impact gravity might have with cosmological distance involved and a very small mass make things even more interesting) ... subsequently, what would happen if an 'anti-hydrogen "atom"' collides with a 'hydrogen "atom"' when the subatomic particles are more displaced than 1 AU (I mean can you even collide at all? Wouldn't you simply exchange bond or something...)

Quote:
Simplest doesn't mean Stablest - otherwise Nuclear Fusion of Deuterium wouldn't be energetically favourable.
although... we only recently managed to do better than breakeven since controlling plasma in a Tokamak sucks so much juice that efficiency is greatly diminished. However, Tyler showed how efficient it can be with Ivy Mike...

(not so thing regarding radiation... today's 20yr after Chernobyl)
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Old 2006-04-27, 07:46   Link #50
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Regarding that Information Entropy equation, a friend of mine provides the answer:

Shannon's Information Content: for a given set A(x) where x is the variable, the average entropy (information content) is given by:

H(x) = SUM{ p(x) * log_2 (1/p(x)) }

where p(x) = probability of event x
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Old 2006-04-27, 14:32   Link #51
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_entropy

This proves fascinating and relavent for anyone doing data.comm or even in database.

Anyway, the expression

H(x) = SUM{ p(x) * log_2 (1/p(x)) } = -SUM{ p(x) * log_2p(x)) }

is best known for compression of alphanumeric string character, transmitted in bits (which is why we're looking at log base 2)

entropy is loosely defined as state of randomness from what I seen so far...

(just googled and found http://www.ccrnp.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/b....Equal.Entropy to look at)

According to Dr. Thomas D. Schneider, Information is always a measure of the decrease of uncertainty at a receiver (or molecular machine). "The conditional entropy Hy(x) will, for convenience, be called the equivocation. It measures the average ambiguity of the received signal."

That makes the "explosion of information" an interesting thing to happen out of the blue. If everything is supposed to goto entropy, this sudden decrease of randomness is disconcerting.
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Old 2006-04-27, 16:54   Link #52
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It's interesting to see this in haruhi, from Information Theory I took last semester, just a brief summary and how it may relate to haruhi.

Shannon's Entropy is basically a way to quantize information. For discrete random variable, Entropy is H(x)=-sum(p(x)log2(p(x))) where p(x) is the probability mass function. Discrete random variable means the probability are set to be certain number at some discrete event. For example coin toss, if it's not biased, then Pr(X=0)=0.5, meaning the probability of X=0, let's say it's head, equals 0.5. The unit of entropy is bits (base 2).
Entropy should be thought as the uncertainty of a probability event. The entropy of an event is highest when the probability is evenly distributed. For example an unbiased coin toss, in this case the uncertainty is highest if the coin is completely unbiased, therefore H is highest.
BTW the entropy for continuous RV is slightly different, where you change summation to integration.

Entropy is used to calculate the capacity of a transmission channel by
C=max{I(x;y)},
p(x)
where I is the mutual information between the output y and input x:
I(x;y)=H(y)-H(y|x)
H(y|x) means the entropy of y given x, so the meaning of the mutual information is, the difference between information of output y and information of output y given input x. A communication channel's capacity therefore can be understood as the maximum of mutual information between the output and input over all input distributions. We can also describe the capacity as channel's ability to reduce uncertainty of output given input. Capacity of the channel is important to determine the maximum rate possible for that channel.

Entropy is also big part of coding theory. Coding is used primarily for data compression and encryption, and is major part of every computer geek's daily life.
It can be proved that the optimal code cannot be better than the entropy of the source. What that means is, for any code, the minimal codeword length has to be greater or equal to entropy of the coding table.

Now haruhi, since Yuki represent alien races which is Integrated Information Data entity. It makes perfect sense to have this formula in the OP.

Now I feel such a nerd to type out boring stuff like this in an internet forum:P
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Old 2006-04-27, 18:20   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan
That makes the "explosion of information" an interesting thing to happen out of the blue. If everything is supposed to goto entropy, this sudden decrease of randomness is disconcerting.
I may not be familiar with Information theory, but this I can certainly answer: "the entropy of the universe is always increased (or kept the same, but never decreased) by any given process" - standard rule in Thermodynamics/Statistical Physics. In other words, the loose definition of 'entropy is a measure of randomness' is at fault here, as well as not considering everything.

That's all I can say off the top of my head though - I'd have to look stuff up and think harder to satsifactorily answer you about Entropy.
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Old 2006-04-27, 18:45   Link #54
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But that would mean that either additional entropy ~randomness pops out of nowhere. I think information is viewed in this case as just a subset of the gross entropy... although such a thing as a decrease in global randomness would be a potential trigger for the backstory on the data entities's part. Since thermodynamic entropy cannot go 'down', yet information increased all of a sudden...

I am imagining this as a discontinuity right now...
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Old 2006-04-27, 19:15   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psieye
I may not be familiar with Information theory, but this I can certainly answer: "the entropy of the universe is always increased (or kept the same, but never decreased) by any given process" - standard rule in Thermodynamics/Statistical Physics.
Only true in a closed system. You can decrease entropy, but there's an energy cost.
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Old 2006-04-27, 19:25   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psieye
I may not be familiar with Information theory, but this I can certainly answer: "the entropy of the universe is always increased (or kept the same, but never decreased) by any given process" - standard rule in Thermodynamics/Statistical Physics. In other words, the loose definition of 'entropy is a measure of randomness' is at fault here, as well as not considering everything.

That's all I can say off the top of my head though - I'd have to look stuff up and think harder to satsifactorily answer you about Entropy.

To put it in the most simplest terms (and crudest)....fecal matter happens, will always roll downhill, and will always happen at the worst possible time.
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Old 2006-04-27, 19:38   Link #57
panzerfan
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EDIT: Anh_Minh's point... is interesting. Quantum mechanic tosses out the notion of closed system alongside absolute vaccum... but a system can be relatively closed base on the limits of factors that can be observed by the point of reference. If an instantaneous increase of information is detected, Psieye would still have validity since observational constraint 'closes' the system to the eyes of ... data entities. It does however open the window to the alternate possibility that unforseened factors contributed to this sudden increase of gross entropy of the observed 'system' somehow, as that way 'thermodynamic' entropy doesn't have to decrease within the system... like having leaks in a tank.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-04-27 at 20:00.
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Old 2006-04-27, 20:20   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Only true in a closed system. You can decrease entropy, but there's an energy cost.
"The entire universe" IS a closed system. Just that we were considering a case which wasn't a closed system, hence you've pointed out the inappropriateness of my post which neglected the 'this isn't a closed system' fact. (Thanks for the reminder about that btw)
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Old 2006-04-28, 12:10   Link #59
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Entropy is related to energy. Any time energy is expended, some of it is wasted and can't be used to create order. That's entropy. As people have said, the order of the universe as a whole decreases (closed system), but in local areas order can still increase (open to the rest of the universe).

The Sun is dissipating energy all the time, part of the universe's general increase of entropy (disorder). But the Earth is open to the Sun and receives some of that wasted energy, so the organization of things here can increase even while the order of the universe as a whole is decreasing. Life itself is a good example: by pouring energy onto the Earth, the Sun makes possible the increased organization that is life. We increase organization by wasting energy, lol.

Read anything by Ilya Prigogine, who won the Nobel prize for developing theories about this. Order Out of Chaos is good for laymen like me. He shows how entropy can be a source of order.

So maybe Haruhi is an energy source, like the Sun, lol.
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Old 2006-04-28, 12:21   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo
So maybe Haruhi is an energy source, like the Sun, lol.
[insert Homer Simpson "Doh!"] So that explains why everything revolves around Haruhi!
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