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Old 2006-05-01, 08:19   Link #21
Vexx
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I think the thing to remember is that they're borrowing Ainu motifs... the villagers are not actually Ainu. In fact, there's some indication (the mutations) that this may be far into the future or a completely alternate reality.

Actually, its interesting to me that pretty much every country has their own versions of folk heroes who rise to overthrow unjust/oppressive and just plain incompetent rulers. There's a reason "rule of law" and regular free elections are a Good Thing.
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Old 2006-05-01, 14:18   Link #22
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
Actually, its interesting to me that pretty much every country has their own versions of folk heroes who rise to overthrow unjust/oppressive and just plain incompetent rulers. There's a reason "rule of law" and regular free elections are a Good Thing.
Ah, that makes a great connection for something that'll happen around midway through the series! Thanks for the comment (and remind me if I forget to explain it once we get there)!
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Old 2006-05-01, 15:51   Link #23
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Does an official manga version of Utawarerumono actually exists??

If not, are there any plans or rumors about one in the future??



Remember, I am not asking for a link or an address to download anything. I just wanna now if a manga exist or not. Dont come crying to me if you get banned for postings things you were not supposed to in the first place.
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Old 2006-05-02, 01:26   Link #24
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There is an official one being serialized in Dengeki G's, but it looks more like random comedy side-stories than anything at this point.
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Old 2006-05-02, 01:39   Link #25
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
There is an official one being serialized in Dengeki G's, but it looks more like random comedy side-stories than anything at this point.
That sounds interesting.

Not what I was expecting to hear, but at least I got my question answered.

Thanks
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Old 2006-05-02, 08:03   Link #26
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How do you translate Utawarerumono...
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Old 2006-05-02, 09:00   Link #27
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I've seen it translated as "The one being sung" or "That which is sung" or "Those which are sung" .... my understanding is that it is a label for the traditional stories and legends sung or chanted and the word has Ainu linguistic connections. Think of old stories sung by ancient peoples as they sit around the fireside in the evening.
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Old 2006-05-02, 09:23   Link #28
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So it's kinda like the Bard's Tales, or Song of Sages or something like that?

Historic accounts that are turn into songs so that they will be remembered and passed to the next generation...
right?

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Old 2006-05-02, 10:18   Link #29
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aye.... like Homer's Odyssey, the tales of Ulysses, or the original Beowulf. Beowulf is actually pretty cool sounding in Old English but it might as well be a foreign language to most people. When I studied it in college, the prof had a nice habit of placing the script in three columns:
/Modern English/Middle English/Old English .... suddenly all those mangled syllables made sense and you could see the evolution of the language. He had a good voice and would sometimes chant the original script excerpts. People would even stop outside in the hall to listen.

Tales that were chanted or "sung" (makes it easier to remember for oration) often by people who specialized in storytelling.
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Old 2006-05-02, 14:49   Link #30
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There is also a different meaning which will be explained in the final episodes...
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Old 2006-05-05, 04:26   Link #31
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"The one who is admired"

If the 'uta' was translated as 'song' then the 'mono' would have been translated as 'thing' as opposed to 'person'. So it would have been "The thing which is sung".

"The one being sung" doesn't make sense from a Japanese context because you don't 'sing' someone like you do in english (unsung heroes) so it would never have been written like that.

Well this is what a friend told me and he said it was the people on 2ch who complained about the mistranslation by fansub groups.
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Old 2006-05-05, 08:08   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcl
"The one who is admired"

If the 'uta' was translated as 'song' then the 'mono' would have been translated as 'thing' as opposed to 'person'. So it would have been "The thing which is sung".

"The one being sung" doesn't make sense from a Japanese context because you don't 'sing' someone like you do in english (unsung heroes) so it would never have been written like that.

Well this is what a friend told me and he said it was the people on 2ch who complained about the mistranslation by fansub groups.

2ch people complain about everything.
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Old 2006-05-05, 10:50   Link #33
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I'd pay more attention to 2chan if it weren't for the problem that I trust my Japanese professors more than them - particularly in regard to 2chan's command of the english language and what makes a good translation. "The one" doesn't necessarily refer to "someone" in English --- also corresponds to "the item" or "the thing" or even "that".

The professor I trust the most in translations thought "That which is sung" carried the best intended meaning of the words in context of "that" being the ancient chants of heroic stories and legends.
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Old 2006-05-05, 18:31   Link #34
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I too did wonder if what was the true meaning of "Utawarerumono".

I did refer this to my japanese language teacher and after some time he told me that it is translated as Uta(song), wa(topic marker), reru(sung) mono(things or person). Since uta(Song) was at the front, so mono will be refered as "things" to support the subject at the front.

"The song that was being sung" was his conclusion.

I do thing this makes sense.
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Old 2006-05-05, 23:09   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babuji
I too did wonder if what was the true meaning of "Utawarerumono".

I did refer this to my japanese language teacher and after some time he told me that it is translated as Uta(song), wa(topic marker), reru(sung) mono(things or person). Since uta(Song) was at the front, so mono will be refered as "things" to support the subject at the front.

"The song that was being sung" was his conclusion.

I do thing this makes sense.
... I seriously hope you only misheard your Japanese language teacher...
While there may be debate as to which kanji it is (though there's a very good chance one particular one is correct one, based on the context with which this word was used in the game), it should be fairly certain that
うたわれるもの is broken down into うたわれる decribing もの, with うたわれる being the passive form of うたう.

As for the Ainu-related definition mentioned by Vexx, this is the page I use as reference:
http://web.archive.org/web/200301130...jr_ainu02.html
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Old 2006-05-05, 23:21   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
... I seriously hope you only misheard your Japanese language teacher...
While there may be debate as to which kanji it is (though there's a very good chance one particular one is correct one, based on the context with which this word was used in the game), it should be fairly certain that
うたわれるもの is broken down into うたわれる decribing もの, with うたわれる being the passive form of うたう.

As for the Ainu-related definition mentioned by Vexx, this is the page I use as reference:
http://web.archive.org/web/200301130...jr_ainu02.html






No, I am serious of what he says. Actually, the traslation varies and can be up to the person who translate it. Even the earlier tranlation was "Not really human" is being rejected and a few more different translation pop out. So I do think there is no definate one but since many prefer "The one being sung" is also accurate in my opinion since the fansub use mono as "the one".
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Old 2006-05-05, 23:23   Link #37
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As vexx mentions もの can have various meanings. 者 which is person or 物 which is things. So for now I assume we agree that "The one that is being sung" cannot be correct because as I mentioned earlier if the うた meant 歌 then 者 cannot proceed it because it doesn't make sense in japanese.

As for translations I probably wouldn't trust 2ch (different from 2chan) compared to my professor's either. But this isn't actually a translation issue (well not in the sense of between one language to another). It's an issue of understanding what the hiragana is.

While うたわれるもの can mean

歌われる物 (The thing that is sung)

it can also mean

謳われる者 (The one who is admired)

(謳われる【うたわれる】
(v1) to be admired; to be stipulated; to be clearly expressed)

and it is the second one that the people on 2ch believe to be the correct interpretation of the hiragana.

In terms of context it also makes sense because hakuoro will go on to do many great things and will recieve the people's admiration (even at ep4 it is already evident that he is someone the villagers admire).

But it is up to you on how you interpret it I suppose.
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Old 2006-05-05, 23:29   Link #38
babuji
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Hehehe, actually, when I ask my teacher to translate it I never tell him where I got this from...So he based it on the dictionary.

I suppose you are right on this. The title reflects on the person who does great things.
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Old 2006-05-05, 23:31   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcl
As vexx mentions もの can have various meanings. 者 which is person or 物 which is things. So for now I assume we agree that "The one that is being sung" cannot be correct because as I mentioned earlier if the うた meant 歌 then 者 cannot proceed it because it doesn't make sense in japanese.

As for translations I probably wouldn't trust 2ch (different from 2chan) compared to my professor's either. But this isn't actually a translation issue (well not in the sense of between one language to another). It's an issue of understanding what the hiragana is.

While うたわれるもの can mean

歌われる物 (The thing that is sung)

it can also mean

謳われる者 (The one who is admired)

(謳われる【うたわれる】
(v1) to be admired; to be stipulated; to be clearly expressed)

and it is the second one that the people on 2ch believe to be the correct interpretation of the hiragana.

In terms of context it also makes sense because hakuoro will go on to do many great things and will recieve the people's admiration (even at ep4 it is already evident that he is someone the villagers admire).

But it is up to you on how you interpret it I suppose.
If you really want to know what the non-Ainu-legend meaning is and you know Japanese, go play the game. The word is used only once in the game, and it is used right before the last battle.
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Old 2006-05-06, 02:03   Link #40
Vexx
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Like many clever sayings, it is probably intended to be interpretable in a number of ways like a subtle pun.

Seriously.... it makes sense to me that "songs" and chants tend to be made about individuals a people admire so I can see how linguistically the term could overlap. Languages are full of idiomatic expressions that don't really mean what their "literal" translation might imply or be subtly different.

Last edited by Vexx; 2006-05-06 at 02:16.
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