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Old 2006-04-26, 08:00   Link #21
Sylf
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There's one good thing I see about the encoder's secrecy about their settings - force the new comers to do their own experimentation. (I think I'm just repeating other people, using different words.) If someone is to give out a concrete example, there sure will be some idiots who'll just copy that setting, never question what it does, and just go use it for everything. Nowadays, I think encoders are more afraid of making any "cookie-cutter made encoders," not really afraid of their skills stolen.

*sigh* I've been in and out of doom9 for almost 3 years, and I still don't know crap about this subject. This really is one subject that a person must experiment to gain knowledge.... reading will do good only after that.
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Old 2006-04-26, 12:11   Link #22
DryFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf
There's one good thing I see about the encoder's secrecy about their settings - force the new comers to do their own experimentation. . . Nowadays, I think encoders are more afraid of making any "cookie-cutter made encoders," not really afraid of their skills stolen.
I do think the best way to learn is simply through experimentation. However, that doesn't mean some guidance early on is a bad thing (like asking for some filters to look into); there's a big difference between pointing someone in the right direction and handing them a script to use.

In some cases the person may not really want to be an encoder and can't find one, but still wants to produce a watch able fansub. In such a case, a multi-purpose copy and paste script may come in handy (along with consulting an encoder).
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Old 2006-04-26, 14:37   Link #23
Nicholi
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf
*sigh* I've been in and out of doom9 for almost 3 years, and I still don't know crap about this subject. This really is one subject that a person must experiment to gain knowledge.... reading will do good only after that.
The only thing I can say is keep pressing on. Keep reading that fucking guide/faq that makes no fucking sense. And keep reading about those strange technical terms that you have no fucking clue how to comprehend. Of course trying to use the stuff at the same time helps but reading more will usually help bring the in-depth knowledge to understand what you are doing, eventually. Then one day someone will come along and shoot your friend and BLAM, you'll go supersaiyan. Literally that is what happens with learning how to encode, I think .

It seems people usually make leaps and bounds when learning to encode, don't worry about it all at once. Start somewhere, any part encoding no matter how stupid, and spread outwards to the other things from there.
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Old 2006-04-26, 17:09   Link #24
xat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
Most things encoders are proud of are stuff that only other encoders would notice... >_>
Very true! Sometimes you'll find yourself wanting to perfect things so much so that the task becomes frustrating; do realize that only a handful of people would be able to appreciate the fruits of your efforts. No reason to lower your standards though. On that note, do not worry if things turn out less well than group X's release. Chances are, the average leecher won't even notice!

If you're going to overdo or underdo things with regards to cleaning, though, best that you do them in experimentation instead of for an actual release.
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Old 2006-04-27, 13:57   Link #25
nwa
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The only real way to make a good encode is to apply the filters and then preview the outcome... don't laugh, I've seen ppl release their encodes without even looking at them.
To put it short, learn the basics yourself, things like how video is being stored and displayed, aspect ratios (you don't want to release an encode with a pixel resolution of 720x480 like this one guy recently did), telecine (if you can't get it to look really good, at least make sure it's properly IVTC'd).
Reading up on avs filters would be the next step since you at least need to know what filter does what when applied to an encode, you don't need to know how things work and how did the video get the problems it has, you only need to know how to fix it.
For more specific problems don't be afraid to ask or see if the problem has already been answered in the doom9 forums. By specific I mean stuff like rainbowing, in which case Bifrost(scenelumathresh=2,altclip=SSIQ(11,300,fals e)) is known to work good against in most cases. Using dedot() pre telecide is known to remove dotcrawl in static scenes, in pan/zoom scenes it won't do much, that's where you'd try using the aaa (anime anti alias) script, etc.

The most proper way to encode is to apply filters per scene (as in, a different filterchain/parameter setting for each scene) as different scenes have often different problems, but I wonder how many encoders actually do that, I've done that only for a few encodes since that's a real time killer

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
Most things encoders are proud of are stuff that only other encoders would notice...
Where the other encoders would be the ones who know how the source looked like or have seen the work of another encoder who didn't put much effort into it, but yeah, if a good encoder can't find any points to criticize, then you've done a good job
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Old 2006-04-27, 22:06   Link #26
Kurz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf
There's one good thing I see about the encoder's secrecy about their settings - force the new comers to do their own experimentation. (I think I'm just repeating other people, using different words.) If someone is to give out a concrete example, there sure will be some idiots who'll just copy that setting, never question what it does, and just go use it for everything. Nowadays, I think encoders are more afraid of making any "cookie-cutter made encoders," not really afraid of their skills stolen.
Well some people like me just needed some Direction. I want to be able to make good encodes. With these little tid bits, I've been having some semi decent success. Still Need work though.

I've been through guides for what seems like days... There are many filters out there, so I just wanted to know some filters that will apply to a Fansub Encoder,
A) Filters that can be used to clean up Animated Videos.
B) I also wanted to know what the other encoders are using.

I dont want to give viewers crappy video to watch... Remembers old encodes of Love Hina... Thanks for all this input, you are probably helping alot more than you think.

*Off to Encode some more*
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Old 2006-05-04, 06:47   Link #27
cagz
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I don't mind telling you what filters i use, in anycase you're still going to have to adjust your settings to get what you want.
For like a little cleaning I just use 2dclean and temporal soften
_2DCleanYUY2(0,4,2,2).temporalsoften(2,2,3,mode=2, scenechange=10)
works good most the time.
Anime raws these day are generally clean enough these days you don't need to do much else, some people like to sharpen the pic up, but I honestly think in most cases it's unneeded
As for older stuff well there is so much you can do, here is something i used awhile ago
deen("a2d",5,12,14).temporalsoften(4,4,8,mode=2,sc enechange=10).BlindDeHalo3(rx=2.3, ry=2.3, strength=110).unfilter(-5,-5).LimitedSharpen(ss_x=2.7, ss_y=2.7, strength=120, special=TRUE)
then tweak(sat=1.2) was used to bring back true color because the source was ugly ;/
I think i had to chuck in derainbow too but honestly its overkill... fansubbing is not supposed to be a replacement for buying a dvd, just a temporary stop gap, or long gap for some broke ppl
My advice, stick to minimal filtering, all raws have a little noise, but like I said there should not be too much these days, you could do a tiny bit of sharpening maybe... awarpsharp().unfiler(-3, -5) but the average viewer won't give a shit =)
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Old 2006-05-04, 08:18   Link #28
DryFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagz
Anime raws these day are generally clean enough these days you don't need to do much else
Only if you're lucky, some of the more obscure series still have rather ugly raws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagz
deen("a2d",5,12,14).temporalsoften(4,4,8,mode=2,sc enechange=10).BlindDeHalo3(rx=2.3, ry=2.3, strength=110).unfilter(-5,-5).LimitedSharpen(ss_x=2.7, ss_y=2.7, strength=120, special=TRUE)


Quote:
Originally Posted by cagz
... honestly its overkill... fansubbing is not supposed to be a replacement for buying a dvd
Fear not, with most sd caps that is not possible. However, that shouldn't be a reason to give your viewers crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagz
My advice, stick to minimal filtering,... tiny bit of sharpening maybe... awarpsharp().unfiler(-3, -5) but the average viewer won't give a shit =)
A default call of awarpsharp is minimal? As to why you'd want to blur a source more vertically as apposed to horizontally... I'm quite confused.

I strongly suggest people lay off the warpsharp.
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Old 2006-05-04, 09:41   Link #29
TheFluff
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O_o
_2DCleanYUY2? deen("a2d",5,12,14)? Unfilter? What are you trying to do...? The ONLY thing I'd use 2dcleanyuy2 on is mid-1980's 320x240 VHS captures. deen on those settings is basically the filtering equivalent of nuclear weapons. What you get is probably something like AonE-AnY's AMG s2 encodes, where you can see hints of something that might once have been detail...

Ahem... cagz seems to be one of those old-school fansub encoders who likes blurriness a lot more than anything else. I doubt there'd be any detail worth looking at left... With those settings you might as well do something like the classic A4E-style:
Code:
blur(1.5).blur(1.5).blur(1.5).blur(1.5).blur(1.5).GaussianBlur(10).CanYouSeeAnyDetails().blur(1.5).blur(1.5).AAA().blur(1.5).BecauseNowYouCan't().blur(1.5).Sharpen(likehell)
That'd give about the same amount of details, but probably compress a lot better since it's basically a 640x480 rectangle that changes colors...
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
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Last edited by TheFluff; 2006-05-04 at 19:26.
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Old 2006-05-04, 10:06   Link #30
MB™
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I'd rather watch 35k frames of blankclip() then that oversmoothed crap
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Old 2006-05-04, 10:43   Link #31
RaistlinMajere
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2.7x super-sampling for the win?
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Old 2006-05-04, 11:56   Link #32
Access
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I agree, I see too much stuff out there today that is way oversharpened or just overprocessed, to the point where the black lines between the colors are disappearing in certain scenes.
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Old 2006-05-04, 12:30   Link #33
cagz
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I did say that the last line was on a particularly old series and needed major cleaning hence the major nuking.
As for awarpsharp i didn't put the values in on purpose wasn't the default minmal anyway? like 4.. I could be wrong tho it's been awhile, indeed you shouldn't oversharpen, find a setting that works
As for unfilter apologies, pasted teh wrong line it was early morning for me
2dclean is great on LOW settings for a quick clean, if you can still find the yv12 compatable version, its far from an annihilation.
But, you know I'm also a fan of neutral bicubic resizing for anime, I like a soft picture not this oversharp crap.
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Old 2006-05-04, 13:53   Link #34
xat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB™
I'd rather watch 35k frames of blankclip() then that oversmoothed crap
Maybe if you blurred enough you could attain a similar effect
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Old 2007-06-08, 12:45   Link #35
CupORamen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf View Post
There's one good thing I see about the encoder's secrecy about their settings - force the new comers to do their own experimentation. (I think I'm just repeating other people, using different words.) If someone is to give out a concrete example, there sure will be some idiots who'll just copy that setting, never question what it does, and just go use it for everything. Nowadays, I think encoders are more afraid of making any "cookie-cutter made encoders," not really afraid of their skills stolen.

*sigh* I've been in and out of doom9 for almost 3 years, and I still don't know crap about this subject. This really is one subject that a person must experiment to gain knowledge.... reading will do good only after that.
I agree with you there. Having the newcomers learn new stuff is the best. I quit subbing for quite a while, and when I rejoin subbing the techniques and filters I used in the past were outdated (an not as good) compared to the new filters. Even still, I just continued to use my old methods right off the bat while learning new tricks, the good thing is, analog broadcast damage doesn't really change, so after the compression was done, no one could tell the difference between the encodes done on the series from different eps where I changed a few things in my filtering and raw cleaning (except maybe a encoder who would sit down to compare two eps).
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Old 2007-06-08, 13:06   Link #36
Starks
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The only filter I use consistently is undot.

Why?

Because I'm only a mildly experienced encoder and because I know how to find good raws instead of just using the crap that is posted on certain torrent sites.
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Old 2007-06-08, 13:14   Link #37
Harukalover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starks View Post
The only filter I use consistently is undot.

Why?

Because I'm only a mildly experienced encoder and because I know how to find good raws instead of just using the crap that is posted on certain torrent sites.
RemoveGrain(mode=1) == Undot() and will be faster with one of the SSE versions.

Though I should fail for continuing the contributions to thread necromancy.
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Old 2007-06-08, 13:53   Link #38
Starks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harukalover View Post
RemoveGrain(mode=1) == Undot() and will be faster with one of the SSE versions.

Though I should fail for continuing the contributions to thread necromancy.
I tend to have assloads of problems with RemoveGrain and its variants whenever I use them, especially inside avsi scripts.
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Old 2007-06-08, 14:10   Link #39
DarkT
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Here's what I use:

Bifrost
ColorMatrix
convolution3d
dctfun4b
deblock
Deen
degrainmedian
descratch
despot
eedi2
fft3dfilter
fluxsmooth
frfun?
gradfun2db
hqdn3d
masktools-v2.0a30
MaskTools-v1.5.8
Msharpen
RemapFrames
removedirt
RemoveGrain
sangnom
ssiq
TBilateral
TComb
TDeint
TIsophote
TIVTC
TTempSmooth
undot
Vaguedenoiser
VobSub
WarpSharp

+ these scripts:

AAA SIMPLIFIED
DEHALO ALPHA
DFM DERAINBOW
FF/FB/FBF/FBFE/FFE
HQ DERING
LIMITED SHARPEN FASTER
SAA
VMTOON

AAA Simplified/SAA = two almost identical Anti Aliasing scripts - one of the only differences in them is the resizers they use - which basically means, one will be a bit sharper, but a bit less AA'd, and the other will be a bit less sharp - but a bit more AA'd (or so says the result - I keep both since some cases require this and some that).

VMTOON is used for line darkening - but on doom9 I saw some newer and faster line darkeners like "linedarken" or something like that and anotehr - but I didn't yet test them out...

HQ Dering I hardly ever use...

DFMDerainbow is mostly used as a nuke-derainbower - I do BiFrost, and if taht doesn't help I do Bifrost + DFMDerainbow(on places BiFrost didn't solve it) and if THAT doesn't help - I do the trick with Bifrost+ssia+DFBDerainbow(I did that only ONE time - Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu!) - also, carefull where you place DFMDerainbow - and, SSIQ can kill colors near the rainbow place - so try not to use it.

DeHalo Alpha is used for those Oversharpened times, when I go berserk on sharpening(I'm a sharpening freak, sue me) - basically, you play with the settings, and it lowers the "white" "aura" which is created at times... It also kills other overly white places, like EYES sometimes - so carefull with the settings.

AntiAliasing also filters stuff a bit - so if you are going to use it - disable all filters which smooth/denoise - and then add them up to see if you're not overdoing it.

AntiAliasing which uses Sangnom(all I've used) will kill your speeds - so don't do it unneccesaitly... Like I do... >.> .... <.< ...

FrFun - this filter is pretty damn hawt, there are a few versions FrFun7, frfun3b/d - I dunno - BUT, I stopped using them - because at some scenes, they change the COLOR of the pic! like WTF?! - go figure...

Anotehr thing, if you filter too hard on the chroma, you'll get a sort of "shifting" of the pic - or "ghosting" or whatever - carefull.

Two MaskTools are there(hmm, why ain't mvtools there? I don't remember...) - basically some scripts need the other one... So yeah... >.>...

FF/FB/FBF/FBFE/FFE - scripts I created for FreezeFraming Berserk - if you're knew you might not know of FreezeFrame(a,b,c) where a=replace starting this frame, b = replace endin this frame and c=the frame to replace a,b with - sometimes you'll notice a certain pattern always occuring - so you'll want to write your own tiny script which will automatically replace frames according to the pattern.

RemapFrames is something by StickyBoy - really cool thing with which you don't have to mes with Trim() to apply filters to a certain range...

Hmmm, what else... What else... Meh, can't think of much else - hope this helped .

Oh yes, Tcomb is for removing DotCrawl - but be carefull, it can and will mess up some small details scenes - so use with caution - also, some filters should be applied PRE IVTC(If such is performed).

Yup... That should do it... Meow! .
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Old 2007-06-08, 14:19   Link #40
Harukalover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starks View Post
I tend to have assloads of problems with RemoveGrain and its variants whenever I use them, especially inside avsi scripts.
A sample script and the errors you get might prove useful to help you. If you want help that is.
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