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Old 2006-05-02, 16:49   Link #61
Roysufer
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This is a tricky one. Of course it is not simply ok to break a law if you disagree with it. i'm pretty sure most murderers disagree with murder laws, but that doesn't make it ok for them to murder. on the other hand, there have been many civil rights movements (US, India, South Africa) that have relied upon civil disobediance. They broke laws they thought were unfair in order to change the law. Thoreau advocated not following laws you believed to be unfair, he never once payed taxes as he believed they were going to a bad cause. The words "right" and "wrong" are to subjective to debate. the nazis thought they were doing the "right" thing. does that make them "good"? the way i see it as long as you a willing to face any and all consequences that may come of your actions you may do whatever you please. It is not as if any one can stop you.
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Old 2006-05-04, 08:29   Link #62
shiro83
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Rules are there to be followed. The law is there because it is to protect everyone's interests. If there is no laws lying around, the world will be perfect chaos. Thieves will steal things, money will be embezzled etc.

Laws are there to punish rule breakers too. Doing so will deter other to-be-offenders.

Breaking rules to leave an impression that a person disagrees with it? That person should go somewhere remote to live. Here is a civilised world where laws/rules protect the majority.
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Old 2006-05-14, 01:23   Link #63
Guido
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Two sayings regarding law and freedom:

1. There's no law without freedom.
2. There's no freedom without law.

On which one of the two you agree?
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Old 2006-05-16, 01:36   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiroitenshi83
Rules are there to be followed. The law is there because it is to protect everyone's interests. If there is no laws lying around, the world will be perfect chaos. Thieves will steal things, money will be embezzled etc.

Laws are there to punish rule breakers too. Doing so will deter other to-be-offenders.

Breaking rules to leave an impression that a person disagrees with it? That person should go somewhere remote to live. Here is a civilised world where laws/rules protect the majority.
Laws and rules are more like temporary stasis that aren't totally disliked but are just followed because changing it would cause much more of a hassle then it already is. A law exist till a new one overcomes its and replace it with everyone accepting the current change/s. Like it's said " when a bunch of republicans and democrates come to discuss an issue, in the end the only thing that was agreed was that, no one agreeed on anything." When on law isn't suited for its day and time no more, it is removed and replaced with a more up to date one.
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Old 2006-05-16, 14:38   Link #65
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiroitenshi83
Rules are there to be followed. The law is there because it is to protect everyone's interests. If there is no laws lying around, the world will be perfect chaos. Thieves will steal things, money will be embezzled etc.

Laws are there to punish rule breakers too. Doing so will deter other to-be-offenders.

Breaking rules to leave an impression that a person disagrees with it? That person should go somewhere remote to live. Here is a civilised world where laws/rules protect the majority.

While this shows the importance of adhering to WELL-MADE LAWS, this is entirely disputable in reality, especially that of the modern climate of politics. Lobby groups and special interest groups are set up, with extremely powerful backers that can influence the legislation of a law. As such, laws become legislations in the interest of money and profit of specific corporations and not of the people. How will following these sorts of laws help? They are not divinely issued by God, nor are they made with the genuine interest of the people but rather, laws that are BOUGHT.

It is essentially important to note that what you are saying is it is important to follow the law for the PURPOSE that it serves, but there are plenty of "bad" or "flawed" laws that can be taken advantage of. Should we follow those as well? No.

While it's difficult and complicated to come up with a general theme of action as to how we should act for the best interests of people, it is COMPLETELY FLAT OUT WRONG to follow a law just because it is a law.
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Old 2006-05-16, 15:51   Link #66
Lemonhead
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Speaking of stupid laws have you ever gone to http://www.dumblaws.com some of the things still on the books is insane. Anyway with so many laws on the books pretty much everything you do is illegal. You just have to find the ones you agree with then follow those and be prepared to face the music for breaking the one's you don't agree with.
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Old 2006-05-16, 15:57   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arias
While this shows the importance of adhering to WELL-MADE LAWS,
The defination of WELL-MADE is subjective. What is well made and sensible to you might not be someone else. So who decides which well made laws are to be obay and which poor made law is to broken?
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Old 2006-05-16, 16:04   Link #68
arias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
The defination of WELL-MADE is subjective. What is well made and sensible to you might not be someone else. So who decides which well made laws are to be obay and which poor made law is to broken?
Is not my last paragraph clear about this?

Of course I recognize the difficulty in developing a whole framework of behavior as to what to obey and what not to obey, but I know for sure that following a law just because is a dangerous course of action.

I'd like to think that I have abit of knowledge on this, because I am after all a Philosophy major (along with Psych double major) as well.. //edited due to undeserved arrogance ; p


I think that while things occasionally work well in theory and on paper, in reality we often have to continually deal with "grey areas" (as cliche as that sounds) and try to make sense of them. We will never be perfect in dealing with them, but as long as we manage, we'll be okay.
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Old 2006-05-16, 16:06   Link #69
npal
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Well, the problem with laws is that they are, essentially, ethical structures, and as such, are subject to every problem regarding morality in general. One's definition of morality shapes his view of specific laws, but since we can't agree on a universal moral guide, we can't agree on which law is just and which one is not.

@Xellos-_^ only lolis are well-made
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Old 2006-05-16, 18:36   Link #70
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Rules like law should be kept in order for preace. If everyone did what the pleased there would be chaos. I believe in law but not at the cost of my conscience. Thus, it is very justifiable for me to break a law which violates my conscience. I think if everyone followed their conscience, then there wouldn't really be the need for laws, but unfortunately not everyone has a conscience that has a threshold in their life.
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Last edited by slayer; 2006-05-17 at 20:00.
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Old 2006-05-16, 23:37   Link #71
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Well, if one wants to get down-right existential about the validity of the law and the justice system, it is fair to say that no individual holds any obligation to follow any sort of code due to the fact that such rules are simply established by others who may or may not know better than anyone else. Many believe in the justice system because it is much easier (and faster) to abid by a readily created system than to construct a complex personal impression which takes alot more time and experience. Some extreme experts will even tell you it's this auto-obligatory response that we have been taught since the beginning of our earliest education that is leading to the decrease in spiritual richness (I don't mean religion) amonst the human race. Essentially, more and more people are becoming mindless zombies that would rather commit to acts of obidience than say, questioning the setup of the social system. (I'm playing devil's advocate here, so don't get too upset)

Personally, I share some of the views of mentioned in the paragraph above, but I do believe that the justice system we have now is necessary in maintaining our current social structure. Civilization is built around a code of conduct. If that code is to, for whatever reason, fall, then it is more than likely the whole social structure will crumble. The world will enter a period of lawlessness (well, duh), but a new system will be established sooner or later and the cycle will repeat, etc.
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Old 2006-05-16, 23:47   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DOT].L
Well, if one wants to get down-right existential about the validity of the law and the justice system, it is fair to say that no individual holds any obligation to follow any sort of code due to the fact that such rules are simply established by others who may or may not know better than anyone else. Many believe in the justice system because it is much easier (and faster) to abid by a readily created system than to construct a complex personal impression which takes alot more time and experience. Some extreme experts will even tell you it's this auto-obligatory response that we have been taught since the beginning of our earliest education that is leading to the decrease in spiritual richness (I don't mean religion) amonst the human race. Essentially, more and more people are becoming mindless zombies that would rather commit to acts of obidience than say, questioning the setup of the social system. (I'm playing devil's advocate here, so don't get too upset)

Personally, I share some of the views of mentioned in the paragraph above, but I do believe that the justice system we have now is necessary in maintaining our current social structure. Civilization is built around a code of conduct. If that code is to, for whatever reason, fall, then it is more than likely the whole social structure will crumble. The world will enter a period of lawlessness (well, duh), but a new system will be established sooner or later and the cycle will repeat, etc.
Hehehehe ^_^. If you sorta read it, your paragraph really pulls in people to read about it more and it seems like one really exorbiantly long sentence ^_^. We are more obligatory to rules and laws that benefits us more at the time that we are at. As i said earlier, there will be laws that are benefical to us at a point in time, and as it changes a new one will be constructed to replace the old, since it no longer fulfill the peoples need no more.
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Old 2006-05-18, 07:43   Link #73
Soka-chan
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The problem with laws is that their "goodness" is sibjective. Some people say that a law is good if it was done regarding the process that the laws themselves stablish; other people say that they have to be in consonance with some sort of "superior morals" common to everyone...but this susally ends up in an individual moral more thna anything else.

What is a "good law"?That's the important and tricking question, and for the record I'll tell you that we're discussing it now in my Theoretical Law(I don0t know the exact translation, as I'm Spanish)
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Old 2006-05-18, 21:15   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soka-chan
The problem with laws is that their "goodness" is sibjective. Some people say that a law is good if it was done regarding the process that the laws themselves stablish; other people say that they have to be in consonance with some sort of "superior morals" common to everyone...but this susally ends up in an individual moral more thna anything else.

What is a "good law"?That's the important and tricking question, and for the record I'll tell you that we're discussing it now in my Theoretical Law(I don0t know the exact translation, as I'm Spanish)
You indirectly answered your own question.
Because the very basis of morals differ from one individual to another, an universal system of law that will satisfy everyone's point of view cannot be created. Society tries to centralize and standardize people's perceptions via education, but it fails due to the unpredictable atavistic instincts that exists within all of us, something most people refer to as "human nature."
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Old 2006-05-19, 05:31   Link #75
Arimfe
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Ehe.. you guys are so good at arguing this thread confuse me, there are arguments from all sides I agree with to some extent
At the very least, I would like to think that my personal judgement of my safety and wellbeing, should be above any law, as long as others won't risk serious/fatal injuries etc.
Though even if a situation should be forced to this extend, it's 99,9% likely that I would prioritize my wellbeing first^^;;

I break the law everyday on my way to school, our traffic law to be precise.
When I ride my bicycle I always use the sidewalks, which is not allowed. I have been told that I risk endangering the pedestrians
My justification for breaking this law: If a car accidentally hits me, I die. If I accidentally hit a pedestrian, he gets a scratch... And so I choose to break this law everyday because the chance of a car hitting someone on sidewalk is smaller.
I don't feel bad about it, though I remember few few months ago an old lady suddenly stopped walking and glared at me while I passed by her, she had the words written on her face " young brats these days are just everywhere "
oh I'm such a bad person causing evil and chaos in this world.

Last edited by Arimfe; 2006-05-19 at 05:53.
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