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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 235 66.01%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 79 22.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 7.58%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 1.97%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.28%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 1.40%
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-06-18, 23:11   Link #61
Shirobane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
Does anyone also notice that more people were filling the auditorium because it started to rain outside? Just as Haruhi was about to perform?
I believe that's the work of KyoAni there as it wasn't mentionned that there was a storm outside in teh novel translations. Thne again KyoAni dropped the number of songs from 4 to 2, not a big problem but we did miss out on the audience standing in petrified silence after the first song.
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:14   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
Does anyone also notice that more people were filling the auditorium because it started to rain outside? Just as Haruhi was about to perform?
I did very erm concidental
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:32   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirobane
I believe that's the work of KyoAni there as it wasn't mentionned that there was a storm outside in teh novel translations. Thne again KyoAni dropped the number of songs from 4 to 2, not a big problem but we did miss out on the audience standing in petrified silence after the first song.
Thank God they did too. I would have given the episode a 4 if they had wasted time with even one more song, 1 and a half was perfect to get the point across. Also every school event I've ever been to or seen in an anime has been rained out, its not so much divine intervention as much as fate and cliche. Trust me on this one it was done for atmosphere.
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:33   Link #64
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Finally finished the RAW. And I noticed that without having to devote some brain-power to the reading of subtitles, just listening (even tho i didnt understand 100% of what they said) allowed me to really get the full emotions and feelings in their voice, and I was also able to pay much more attention to their facial expressions. Wonderful.

This episode deserves a 10 from me.
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:41   Link #65
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Ok, I'm not criticizing or anything but how can you give a 10 (Perfect) rating to something you admit you cannot fully understand and are at least partially guessing at, you do realize what Perfect means right. You are of course entitled to give it a 10, but I just hope you understand fully what that a Perfect rating really means.
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:51   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Ok, I'm not criticizing or anything but how can you give a 10 (Perfect) rating to something you admit you cannot fully understand and are at least partially guessing at, you do realize what Perfect means right. You are of course entitled to give it a 10, but I just hope you understand fully what that a Perfect rating really means.
Well, I have read the novel chapter, and I have short-term memory, so I do think that I can understand which dialogues go where in the Anime. Or which parts in the Anime correspond to which parts of the chapter. But I get what you mean. ^^'

For me, PERFECT (in relation to Anime) means an episode that:

(1) Moves me emotionally, where feelings of the characters, or feelings of the situation, come across the screen to me - anywhere from making me cry to making me understand the characters/circumstances indepth. (2) Generally gives me a good feeling, or leaves me with a small satisfied smile at the end. (3) Contains noteworthy animation and music.

Of course, this wouldn't be an absolute definition, because what moves me might not move someone else. And for the record, I'm not picking these points out from the episode. I'm sorry if they don't fit your definition of perfect? Just curious. What is your definition?
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Old 2006-06-18, 23:57   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Ok, I'm not criticizing or anything but how can you give a 10 (Perfect) rating to something you admit you cannot fully understand and are at least partially guessing at, you do realize what Perfect means right. You are of course entitled to give it a 10, but I just hope you understand fully what that a Perfect rating really means.
Thats why we need ratings to go above 10, some of the ratings maybe 15 or something, but because they didn't understand some parts, it became 12. Yea 12 is still more than 10, so why not rate it a 10? You probably won't understand this as well.

I for one, would be extremely delighted if they had all 4 songs, I'm a music junkie. Especially when I've cried thrice listening to Basara's j-rock, Haruhi/Hirano Aya definitely sang their hearts out in this one, I heard her.

Needless to say, but anyway this episode is a 10.
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:13   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyism
Feels like I'm spamming this but I figure some folks may enjoy this:
Spoiler:
preps for you...reall apprecaite~

Having read the translated novel, i have to say this ep blows me away so bad...100% here
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:21   Link #69
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My definition of perfect is flawless in every possible way, Animation (No flubs whatsoever, even something so much as that cable cutting through Haruhi in episode 11 would cause the rating to immediately drop to 9 or lower for me), Music (Fits with every scene and effort is put into it), Plot (It would need to be monumental and contribute towards the betterment of society) Character Interaction (The interaction between characters is believable and makes sense, facial reactions are always akin to what they should be given the situation or a characters emotional state), Voice Acting (Properly cast characters concerning age and personality, vocal tone is always on par with what is being said and how the character would say it, also lip-flap synchronization matches with what is happening on screen, since I noticed in episode 12 Haruhi's lip-sync was way off during the singing of the first song, I immediately could not give it a perfect)

If it seems like my standard of perfect is impossible to obtain, then that's because it probably is, and I feel thats the way it should be. Hell, I would only rate my favorite series of all time Zeta Gundam a 93% rating given the opportunity most likely, I know I gave a Fire Emblem 3, part of one of my favorite if not my favorite series of all time an 8 out of 10 on Gamefaqs and that was 3 years ago when I was a much happier person who wasn't quite as bitter and disagreeable. So, my standards are very high, yet they don't even come close to what my friend expects.
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:29   Link #70
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Everybody rate things differently, and that's why opinions existed. IMO, if it is impossible for you to rate something "10" since nothing is perfect, then there is no need for a "10" rating there. We could have just have 1-9, what's the point of "10" then?
It's perfect OK to rate things your way, but you should also respect other's ratings. For me, I rarely give 10s, but in the case of haruhi I gived 10s twice (2nd and 10th episode). The whole thing is just a gathering of opinions, or a popularity rating, take whatever way you will.
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:32   Link #71
Shirobane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
I for one, would be extremely delighted if they had all 4 songs, I'm a music junkie. Especially when I've cried thrice listening to Basara's j-rock, Haruhi/Hirano Aya definitely sang their hearts out in this one, I heard her.
Agreed, definately different strokes for different folks, for me a fade-medley of the four songs would have last me the entire year . That said it's still the best anime concert/pseudo-mv that I've seen. The band itself felt alive, something not even the Black Stones from Nana could pull off. The sweat, the fingering of the guitarists, the blur of the drumsticks and even the exhausted speech of the amateur Haruhi who sang her heart out without the conservation that a pro would have all played a part in creating this vivid atmosphere. I'm still in awe at how well that scene was done.
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Last edited by Shirobane; 2006-06-19 at 00:44.
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:41   Link #72
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I feel a 10 should still be there as a reminder of the concept of perfection and how it should be strived to be attained for even though it is difficult if not impossible, without the possibility of achieving total perfection there would be nothing to strive for and we wouldn't have shows as good as Haruhi, Eureka 7, or in my opinion Zeta Gundam.

Anyway back to discussion, I can't help but feel each episode of the series is just too compressed down when converted from novel to anime. I got that feeling the most with episode 11 which led me to be disappointed with what I saw as Kyoto Animation taking the Fan Service route with Day of Sagitarius and showing the characters doing a whole bunch of parodies of classic sci-fi epics instead of focusing on the plot. There were a lot of aspects of the original chapter such as Yuki's dillema in not cheating and Haruhi's show of mercy towards the Computer club president that were barely glazed over in the anime.

Also if people haven't realized by now I tend to be a pessimist who points out the shortcomings of things where few people notice them. I have a keen eye for flaws and weaknesses that I tend to focus in on and analyze, in a sense I am the Thomas Hobbes of AnimeSuki. Sorry to be such a downer.

Finally first person who dares compare Basara to Haruhi gets taken down hard with a page long essay, you have been warned, muhahahahaha..... However comparing Haruhi to Mylene is fair game.
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Old 2006-06-19, 00:51   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.

I for one, would be extremely delighted if they had all 4 songs, I'm a music junkie. Especially when I've cried thrice listening to Basara's j-rock, Haruhi/Hirano Aya definitely sang their hearts out in this one, I heard her.
I would like to see it too but alas the time is so limited that they barely sung the second song.

Can anyone translate the lyrics of the song for us? XD
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Old 2006-06-19, 01:06   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Anyway back to discussion, I can't help but feel each episode of the series is just too compressed down when converted from novel to anime. I got that feeling the most with episode 11 which led me to be disappointed with what I saw as Kyoto Animation taking the Fan Service route with Day of Sagitarius and showing the characters doing a whole bunch of parodies of classic sci-fi epics instead of focusing on the plot. There were a lot of aspects of the original chapter such as Yuki's dillema in not cheating and Haruhi's show of mercy towards the Computer club president that were barely glazed over in the anime.
Spoiler for maybe slight novel spoiler:
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Old 2006-06-19, 01:27   Link #75
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Of all the chapters I would have liked to have seen Snow Mountain Syndrome tops the list
Spoiler:
Either that or the one where
Spoiler:
. Basically if they had balanced out TsunTsun Haruhi and DereDere Haruhi a bit more it would have been a lot better, instead we get 80% TsunTsun 5% DereDere and 15% inbetween.
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Old 2006-06-19, 01:51   Link #76
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If Haruhi is balanced Tsundere all the time, it makes her Dere moments less precious. And it will be horrifying for you because everytime Haruhi goes Dere, the show gets more 10s lol

Anyway, Yuki's little prophecy is exactly the same as what Kyon expected she would say in Novel 2 chapter 1.
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Old 2006-06-19, 01:56   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
My definition of perfect is flawless in every possible way, Animation (No flubs whatsoever, even something so much as that cable cutting through Haruhi in episode 11 would cause the rating to immediately drop to 9 or lower for me), Music (Fits with every scene and effort is put into it), Plot (It would need to be monumental and contribute towards the betterment of society) Character Interaction (The interaction between characters is believable and makes sense, facial reactions are always akin to what they should be given the situation or a characters emotional state), Voice Acting (Properly cast characters concerning age and personality, vocal tone is always on par with what is being said and how the character would say it, also lip-flap synchronization matches with what is happening on screen, since I noticed in episode 12 Haruhi's lip-sync was way off during the singing of the first song, I immediately could not give it a perfect)
Not to be confrontational but human ambition isn't based upon chasing a fleeting dream but rather to do better than every one of their predecessors. The human emotion greed fuels this one-up-manship. This is the reason why technological evolution is incremental rather than explosive. Humans simply don't have the infinite determination to achieve absolute perfection. Quite literally, people often get depressed (or lose interest) when they don't see instant (positive) reactions to their actions. So to me, it is most important to compare a work to its predecessors rather than to compare it to a static bar. And so this leads to Haruhi episode 12.

The standout scene is the performance and compared to its predecessors, I feel that Kyoani has easily decimated its competition. Yes there were some off-synching but it wasn't as bad as Mion (Higurashi) in Oyashiro-mode and I'd much rather take a slight lip flapping over the often used "random scene inserted to illustrate/parallel the lyrics to the song" that more often than not, hurts the flow of the insert song rather than bolsters it. I'm quite tempted to give it high marks now, but I'd rather watch the subs first before making a final judgement. Now am I saying that your judging methods are unfair? No. I simply cannot do that since there isn't a universal standard for opinions. I'm simply giving another perspective to judging a work for what it is.

Granted it would be great if everyone had the sheer (and oft times unlimited) determination of Haruhi-sama, human achievement would be astronomical. On a side note, that is one of the things I love about Haruhi, her undying spirit and determination that is literally a million times of that I could muster. Many people have written Haruhi simply off as a bitch but really, is there something wrong in following your dream? or even in giving your all towards that dream?

Kyoani's portrayal of Haruhi has already been toned down somewhat from the novels and even more so from the english translations. As she is now, she's unique in being a VERY tsun-character which gives her an aura of energy that the viewers could feel(even the Haruhi haters must admit that Haruhi is energetic).
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Old 2006-06-19, 02:46   Link #78
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Except the way I see it, I don't think Haruhi yet realizes what her dream is, I honestly think what she really wants is friends and that she's been shutting herself in all this time and isolating herself due to a character flaw. I think now where they are in episode 12 she realizes that she is not the great all-important perfect leader of the SOS-Brigade. If you want to think that Haruhi is going to remain a static character throughout the novels who is always self-centred always cruel, and always controlling fine, that's a possible ending, although a really depressing and sad one. I however, think Haruhi will eventually open up more and more as the novel progresses, the third party will continue to press her for a reaction and things will eventually come to a boiling point. What's key here, is what is Haruhi's real dream, is it what is presented on the surface (Finding aliens and stuff), or something that lies deep within her psyche, that she is only starting to become aware of as of episode 12's time period.

Oh and C.A I guess your right, we don't need balanced Tsundere as it will make the Dere moments less of an impact, although it would be highly illogical and surprising if as the series continues on here Dere side doesn't begin to surface more and more. Anyway I'm having a hard time seeing why people prefer Tsun Haruhi so much, I mean if you like the antics that go on as a result of it fine, they are pretty funny. I prefer Dere Haruhi however, the show really hits its stride whenever that side surfaces, it is then that we get the character development and plot advancement, I mean honestly, did episode 11 with Tsun Haruhi even really do much to advance the story at all, it was filler plain and simple, not bad filler, but filler nonetheless, not that episode 12 advanced the story much but at least we got some character development and Haruhi had a revalation about herself. Also I won't be horrified if the show gets higher ratings for Dere Haruhi as those episodes more often than not deserve it, maybe not 10's but higher ratings, too bad they all have high ratings though so it is impossible to find the stand out episodes within the series.
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Old 2006-06-19, 03:16   Link #79
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In addition to what everyone else mentioned already, I liked how they snuck Nekoman in here and there.
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Old 2006-06-19, 03:18   Link #80
IchiKyo
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Perfect ! Best Episode Ever...
Good Music... Can't wait for the Single
But too bad
we can't listening Full version of Lost my magic...
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