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View Poll Results: Higurashi Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 25 33.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 33.78%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 22.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.35%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.35%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-07-25, 21:13   Link #41
Darklightz
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This episode was very interesting.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-07-25, 21:17   Link #42
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
Never the less though, if one pays extreamly attention to the details I belive the anime is giving good foundation to lay down good speculations about the possible reasons that made her act as such.
Indeed. I haven't been through the game (yet), but I didn't have any trouble filling in the blanks and inferring her train of thought. In fact, I was waiting for her to snap when Satoko started bawling.
I think it would be more informative with the monologues, but it would really break up the flow and steal time from other things that need to be shown, so I can sympathize with the reasoning behind dropping them.
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Old 2006-07-25, 21:42   Link #43
LostBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
hBUT.., Rena did play a Key role in the last episode of Watanagashi-hen.., upon entering the Sonozaki house and sitting down with Keiichi to talk with Mion(Shion).., she Clearly saw that that was in fact Shion and quickly caught her act, specialy from the moment she even says that it isn't necessary for her to show the tattoo; since she knew that her beeing Shion she wouldn't have it.
So she rather just letted the story play along, probably to see how far it would go.

It feels strange to me that.. if Rena had actualy never met Shion how could she tell ?, Was it all instinct ? Was it aswell the same reason why Shion was afraid to cross path with Rena, only pure and natural instinct ?
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-07-25, 22:44   Link #44
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostBlue
Spoiler:
Oh, thank you, thank you
I guess I will have to wait for the next arc in order to understand Rena's full thought process which lead her to take the actions she did then.

I've been trying to find in the episodes some small tips here and there on Rena for a while now regarding this, special since everything about her is still pretty vague..; and I also haven't been able to make any solid judgments or speculations on why and how her actions are driven because of it, unlike those I was able to pull through regarding Shion & Mion

Hopefully the last arc will answer most of this

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostBlue
I still stand by my stance that Rena ( 鉈女) is scary.
And also.., to give more in-sight reasons for your stance
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Old 2006-07-26, 06:20   Link #45
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I don't think this is a spoiler, because it was shown at the beginning of Watangashi, but I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case...

Spoiler for Beginning of Watanagashi:
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Old 2006-07-27, 03:26   Link #46
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keriaku
I don't think this is a spoiler, because it was shown at the beginning of Watangashi, but I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case...

Spoiler for Beginning of Watanagashi:
Let us not forget that Shion first lured Rika over as to probably make Satoko come to the Sonozaki House.., or it is what I belive was the reason for she to summon Rika over first.

It is very possible that Shion first "atended" to "taking care" of Sakoto as soon as this one arrived to the House.., and probably had just kept Rika a prisioner meantime.

We now know that it was Shion dressed as Mion when she went along with Keiichi and Rena to Rika's & Satoko's house in search for them; we know this because.., during the moment where Keiichi climbs up the ladder and starts to mencione Satoko, Shion(passing off as Mion) goes compleatly berserk about Satoko beeing a burder on Satoshi and how she was the reason his life was compleatly ruined.

Probably after this scene when she then returned home she found Rika about to stab herself as we saw in the begining of Watanagashi-hen.
Still what are the real reasons for this I am not sure.., as in.. what realy drove Rika to do that..

It might simply be that she did not wish to have the same fate as Satoko did, or that she'd rather take her own life then to leave it in the hands of what would happen to her as we saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Either way.. Rika will die just as she predicted she would, that so far is the only sure thing I know regarding her

oh.. and Keriaku, all of this happened previously so.., I belive there is no need for the spoiler tags .
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Old 2006-07-27, 09:00   Link #47
Deathkillz
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knowing that shion is a psyco...i can believe that the person standing in front of rika while she was stabbing herself was indeed shion...but why would satoko show up even if rika was lured to mion's house?
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Old 2006-07-27, 10:00   Link #48
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz
knowing that shion is a psyco...i can believe that the person standing in front of rika while she was stabbing herself was indeed shion...but why would satoko show up even if rika was lured to mion's house?
Tsk, tsk Death, you should be paying more attention if you missed out on something like this

Just kidding , Rika went to the Sonozaki House to deliver a huge jar of Soy Sauce she had in her house; later then Shion(passing as Mion) probably was the one to phone Satoko at her house and say that Rika had dropped by and was having dinner here, thus asking Satoko to drop by and join them.

Which was the reason why Satoko left 2 meals in the fridge.., something that she had done for when Rika returned.., but since Rika was "having dinner" in the Sonozaki House and Satoko herself was then asked to join her..., she naturaly went along and saved the food for later.

Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it

Last edited by Alu; 2006-07-27 at 10:25.
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Old 2006-07-27, 12:54   Link #49
Keriaku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it
Well after what just happened in episode 16 with Shion pretending to be Mion (in the school), you'd think they wouldn't be as good friends. If one of my friends did that to me, I don't think we'd be friends again....
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Old 2006-07-27, 16:48   Link #50
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Excellent episode for the new chapter plus the creepy opening scene with Shion carrying a tazer and dragging Mion by the hair was cool it looked like the head of Sonozaki family was unconcious in the corner as well. Seeing this side of Shion was a change in the previous chapters it was all Mion. I did not expect some of the things that happen here for one
Spoiler for :
i get the feeling so bad shit is going to happen in the next episode

Did anyone else read this http://www.badongo.com/pic/246458
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Old 2006-07-27, 17:14   Link #51
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra
Spoiler for :
i get the feeling so bad shit is going to happen in the next episode.
Spoiler:


Me too.
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Old 2006-07-27, 19:50   Link #52
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
Tsk, tsk Death, you should be paying more attention if you missed out on something like this

Just kidding , Rika went to the Sonozaki House to deliver a huge jar of Soy Sauce she had in her house; later then Shion(passing as Mion) probably was the one to phone Satoko at her house and say that Rika had dropped by and was having dinner here, thus asking Satoko to drop by and join them.

Which was the reason why Satoko left 2 meals in the fridge.., something that she had done for when Rika returned.., but since Rika was "having dinner" in the Sonozaki House and Satoko herself was then asked to join her..., she naturaly went along and saved the food for later.

Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it
goddammit my brain is crap at analyzing >.< exellent theory completely clicked in thx
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Old 2006-07-27, 22:31   Link #53
Fishbait
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This show is so amazing!

Must get back some of the earlier episodes that I had to delete to make room since so many things make more sense now or look COMPLETLY different now after this episode
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Old 2006-07-27, 23:11   Link #54
Newprimus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbait
This show is so amazing!

Must get back some of the earlier episodes that I had to delete to make room since so many things make more sense now or look COMPLETLY different now after this episode
You should've been burning those onto CDs or DVDs instead!!!
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Old 2006-07-28, 04:55   Link #55
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keriaku
Well after what just happened in episode 16 with Shion pretending to be Mion (in the school), you'd think they wouldn't be as good friends. If one of my friends did that to me, I don't think we'd be friends again....
I probably am not the best person to respond to this.., since after all I did not play the game and alot of things still puzzle me.., however.., my take on this aspect is as follows..

Satoko had Always been dependant on Satoshi as we could see.., at the mere minor incident she would cry out for her Nii-nii in an instant.., so in a way Shion's prespective regarding Satoko "taking the life away" from Satoshi was somewhat true..; altough this is also due to Satoko's aunt's constant abuse, which Satoshi always toke to protect Satoko.

In the end.., after Satoshi "transfered", and Satoko's aunt was murdered, she ended up beeing all alone, this despite living with Rika..., I ment "alone" as in she lost all of the people she loved in her family (father, mother & brother), which naturaly this stripped her of anyone she could depend on; or as in the way she did anyway.

Its true that Satoko must have gathered a tremendous huge amount of mental strenght to live out each day after Satoshi went away.., and adding to what happened to her parents and how they where so punished for they're choice.., Satoko realy must have struggled each day just to see it come to and end and await the next.

All of this made her the Satoko we saw in the present time, cooking for Keiichi and all.., she had no longer become dependant on anyone nor was she crying all the time for such small things as she did.
And all of this happened in the time-spam of 1 year so.., it definitly was a tremendous change in caracter for her.

Never the less.., what drives her on.., and this we got to see while witnessing Keiichi's and doctor Irei's conversation in Tatarigoroshi-hen... Its Satoshi.

Satoko now herself feels that she realy was a burden to her Nii-nii, that she depended too much on him.., and in her own mind, that was why Satoshi left her all lone and went away.
So.., in order for Satoshi to return, she feels that she must gather strenght and endure all the tests she can as to prove herself that she is no longer so much dependable on those she loved.
And she belives this so blindly that like we saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen.., she would refuse and would not admit the abuse that her Uncle was submiting her too.., for doing that would mean she lost and Satoshi would not return to her.

So, given all of this probably that "incident" between her and Shion(passing as Mion) is probably so irrelevant that she by chances forgot about it.., or in fact.., after Satoshi's dissapearence.., she viewed Shion's words as in the reasons why he realy left; which would explain why she then blamed herself so much.

All and all we also saw Mion talking over the phone to Shion after that incident.., and in which Mion said something like "it will be allright"..; thus probably Mion herself then found some excuse or apologised to Satoko for what had happened and they became "more" friends after that.

Which then adding all that happened to Satoko.., its natural that she ended up good friends with Mion as we saw.., for she had been through so much, that surely Mion had conforted her many times.
Mion is in fact a good person at heart.

But all and all I stress that the main reason why Satoko went to the Sonozaki House that day was because Rika was there aswell, and as she was told.., was having dinner there and would like her to join them.
Not taking away the fact that Satoko and Mion where indeed good friends now.., if Rika had not been there Satoko would probably not have gone over that night.

This is just my point of view on this.., like I said.., someone who has played the game can probably answer you better
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Old 2006-07-28, 10:26   Link #56
LostBlue
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hmmm... concerning the Hojou family...

1) the reason why Satoko cried: b/c she spill her lunchbox which is an offense that her Aunt or Uncle would literally beat her for.

2) Satoko is pretty broken mentally right now. Small things will trigger her outburst of crying.

3) Possibly Satoko forgot about this incident. Most likely all the things Shion did in this EP is NOTHING compared to what Satoko has to go through EVERYDAY at her house, physically or mentally. I mean think about it. A girl hitting her and throwing text books at her or Teppei using her as a punching bag outlet for frustration (+ we know everyone in Hinamizawa is an Olympian ) while her Aunt yells at her constantly all the way past midnight every night (See TIPs). Shion's little outburst probably wasn't all that much compared to Satoko has been experiencing everyday for the past year, but yea, that chair was a bit too far...

Now see Satoshi's position in all this. He has to put up with this everyday shielding Satoko...


--

Actually, I wonder what Mion said to everyone else to cover herself up. She did a pretty good job of it looking at everyone else's reaction after this.
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Old 2006-07-28, 15:28   Link #57
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This show is messing with my head:

I think this story arc literally freaked me out a bit:

Spoiler:


Maybe I need to watch some happy good time anime?

Thanks for explaining why Satoko went all waterfalling after her lunch
spilled.

You think that Shion would have been a little smarter though, if she
really wanted to get on Satoshi's good side she could have helped
Satoko out but she was a little too selfish/jealous to do that.
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Old 2006-07-28, 16:56   Link #58
LostBlue
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Shion herself is in a tight position.

She can't "exist" in the Hinamizawa area. For her to go out, she must assume Mion's identity, but to pull it off effectively Mion can't be wandering off outside the at same time. So they call each other. Whenever Mion is free she'll go over to Shion's house and Shion can become Mion working outside. Without Mion's cooperation Shion can't step outside of her apartment building. One screw up and she'll have the Sonozaki Yakuza members dragging her in-front of Sonozaki Oryou. And Oryou is scary. I mean really scary. I mean REALLY scary.

Satoshi-kun's kindness moved her. She meets him randomly every so often outside, but she can't tell him who she is. Eventually Shion learns every Sunday he goes to baseball practice down in Okinomiya. She couldn't hold back her desire to be with him and goes to the practices w/o telling Mion (although Mion catches on pretty quickly to cover for her).

Many people blame Shion for not helping Satoko, but Shion isn't in the position to help her. Shion avoids going to Hinamizawa at all costs (so she really took a chance going to the school in this arc). Heck, she can barely even meet with Satoshi when she wants to. When she does meet with him, she tries her best to to ease him, but that's all that she can do... I'm sure that frustration was building on her. Not being able to help or ease the one you love and thing you can do is see him slowly degenerate.

When she finally meets with him again at the school (again this is after weeks of separation) his attitude towards her crushed her. I think in Shion's mind she knows she can't do much for Satoshi, but Satoko who's always around him can, but instead Satoko is causing him more pain. That's why Shion just burst out on Satoko. If only Satoko will "man up" at bit, take care of herself, and not push all her troubles on Satoshi, then Shion can do something for him. All Shion wants to do is love and care for Satoshi, but her feeling can't reach him b/c Satoko selfish pleas hurts Satoshi. Shion went to help Satoko clean up... and what happens? Satoko calls out for Ni-Ni over a trivial task that's already been taken care of... That attitude, that selfishness for wanting Ni-Ni to do every for her is what made Shion snap.

Again, I'll reiterate. Shion has only spends a limited time outside her apartment. When she does get the chance to go outside, Shion can't be "Shion" and must be "Mion." Shion has to spend most of this limited time she gets on making a living or purchasing food and other needs. If she is lucky she gets to see Satoshi (rare). Until she finds out about the baseball practice, which this joy was short-lived as Satoshi stops going to it. She spends weeks worrying sick about him and when she finally sees him, Satoshi gives her the F'you attitude. Shion was definitely wasn't thinking straight with her heart wrentched when she directed her anger at Satoko.
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Old 2006-07-28, 18:35   Link #59
Matrim
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What I really want to know is why Shion stopped keeping a low profile by the time of the events in Watanagashi-hen. Although after rewatching bits of episode five and six the only people who clearly saw Mion and Shion together were K1, Ooishi, Takano and Tomitake and the latter three are not exactly what I would call your average Hinamizawa villagers. But if Shion kept the low profile why did she tell Keiichi about herself? Not wanting to repeat the mistake she did with Satoshi?

Quote:
When she finally meets with him again at the school (again this is after weeks of separation) his attitude towards her crushed her. I think in Shion's mind she knows she can't do much for Satoshi, but Satoko who's always around him can, but instead Satoko is causing him more pain. That's why Shion just burst out on Satoko. If only Satoko will "man up" at bit, take care of herself, and not push all her troubles on Satoshi, then Shion can do something for him. All Shion wants to do is love and care for Satoshi, but her feeling can't reach him b/c Satoko selfish pleas hurts Satoshi. Shion went to help Satoko clean up... and what happens? Satoko calls out for Ni-Ni over a trivial task that's already been taken care of... That attitude, that selfishness for wanting Ni-Ni to do every for her is what made Shion snap.
I think Shion's behaviour made sense. Some people have a low tolerance for crying children and although most don't go as far as Shion (thank goodness), with her being under so much pressure from various sides no wonder her reaction was so extreme.
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Old 2006-07-30, 00:09   Link #60
Tai_ hikikomori
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Personally I think Shion is just defending what she thinks is right. No one else really understands how badly off Satoko is at that point in time. I doubt Shion really has good interaction with other people (let alone small children) and her actions are pretty wll placed.
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