(L) Simoun

[Iskandar Taib]

Originally Posted by Guppy

That's quite a lot of reserves to hold back. I believe WWII USAAF squadrons also had 18 aircraft - but their mission strength was 16 (four flights of four) and the two spares often took off with the main group anyway, to fill in for any early aborts (yet another problem Simouns don't ever seem to have).

I'd be surprised if there wasn't really more than that. The flying reserves might be two aircraft, but there would be also be aircraft undergoing repairs and maintenance, etc. It'd be easier to sustain losses and integrate replacements if the replacements were already with the Squadron, rather than having to maintain larger groups of reserves in separate depots and having to rush them immediately to the squadron when one or two get shot down, especially if the squadron was flying day in and day out.

The 18 pilots/planes in a RAF squadron would be the theoretical full complement, in real life, especially during the desperate summer of 1940, it was probably quite a bit less. Squadrons not in the front lines (they rotated them in and out of 11 Group) were pared down to the minimum.

For a Simoun Chor, it would make sense to have more pilots than aircraft, since their loss rate is generally quite low and the Simouns are usually 100% available (which makes their maintenance crews seem very good, but then again they don't understand and never touch the most critical parts of the airframe - so what exactly do they do, anyway? Reload the guns and polish the hull?).

Doesn't look like they need fuel, by any means... ^_^;; They would have to patch up the holes.

Hey, so I'm not the only one who keeps thinking of PoC while watching Simoun! I like the way both stories keep the airborne fighting short and sharp, while focusing on the character interplay on the ground.

Heh.. I read the book before I watched the show. By the time I was finished, I detested Cattermole more than I detested any other character in any book I'd ever read. The TV show cut out what would have been the best part - Steele-Stebbings giving Cattermole his comeuppance.

Someone in Australia made some VCDs and sent them to me. Being a Spitfire buff, I really enjoyed it (although, in the book, it was actually a Hurricane squadron). And yeah, I enjoyed trying to figure out what mark each of the Spits they used was...

ObSimoun: I watched the first episode again.

1) The T-tailed Simoun did indeed belong to Rodreamon/Eri.
2) Paraietta/Kaimu fly a Simoun with a backward pointing spike up behind the Sagitta's position. It's also got "canards" (the "cow catcher" extends sideways). There's another Simoun with a backward spike, but it's mounted much closer to the bottom.
3) The Call Caput machine that was disabled was a T-tail. These actually have a better rearward view than the others - the tail doesn't extend above the Sagitta's position.
4) You get to see the two girls who get shot down, who weren't named - one had Michiru-colored hair, the other ponytails tied with big beads (like Chiyo-chan's). They were in the V-tailed Simoun. Not sure who was Auriga, who was Sagitta.
5) In the second episode, Aeru and Neville fly in the round-tailed Simoun (which is probably why Aeru uses it later for her.. um, activities). I'll betcha it belonged to the two who went to the Spring. Which reminds me - I was more amused the second time around when Aeru brought out the big grocery bag of snacks for Limone in episode 4. I didn't get it the first time, but after watching her chomp snacks episode after episode....

[Yui from Okinawa]

Wapoliff and his maintainance crew reserch ancient over-technolgy " V-style Simoun ".

1. Why Simulacrum officer consider to retired-Sybillae re-assignment with Armed "Simile(Simire?)- Simoun?"
2. Why they think Simoun has lost , reserve Sybillae has useless and have to go the spring as retired?

Simulacrum officer and pristess has no idea to the advanced tactics or negotiate utilty ...

On the other hand, The Argentum and Plumbum has the idea "United operations" and more advanced tactics.
(In spite of ther each theory "Totalitarism" and " Suicide religious theory " I can't accept...)

[Futaba-chan]

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

1) The T-tailed Simoun did indeed belong to Rodreamon/Eri.

Somewhere in this thread, there's a link to a Japanese page which lists every Simoun assignment in every episode, identifying auriga/sagitta pairs, specific Simoun flown, and who flew and who stayed behind. I think it's on the Japanese wiki (the Simoun wiki, not Japanese Wikipedia).

[Yui from Okinawa]

Now I note that each craft code-name

"Long-hone" ･･･ The craft only for "The Regena ". Neviril & Amuria(#16- later : Aael) pair boards in Ep.1 Type A

"Beard. " ･･･ Paraietta / Caim 　pair boards Type C

"Dorsal fin. "・・・Alti / Floe　pair boards. Type F

"Pair-hone(T or 干) " ･･･ Rōdoreamon’ｓ　Special machine, "Sagitta" is changed each time after Erii(Erifu) leaved
* Heavy armed two fixed high speed machine-gun ?? Type D

"Round-tail " ･･･ Because of retired "PAL"(Auriga & Sagitta pair) in Episode 1 Air-battle, Thereafter,"Aael " and "Sagetta" that she chose person
boards it. (mainly Mamina& Yun) * Long barrel machine -gun x2 Type E



"Twin-tail" ･･･ It is shot down by Episode-1, and the craft repaired and come back for Rimone/Dominura pair boards it by episode 5.
Type B

http://www.geocities.jp/emiri_0623/q-and-A-english.htm

[fignae]

I thought the cast messages were over, but thankfully, I was wrong. This one has Takahashi Mikako (Rodoreamon), Morinaga Rika (Mamiina), and Nazuka Kaori (Yun). I thought it was less interesting than the others, though, and the latter seemed awfully quiet. Maybe I was paying much less attention, not being a fan of any of them....

There's also a new (?) promo video up that can't be opened from its link, LOL.

[Iskandar Taib]

[QUOTE=Yui from Okinawa]

"Long-hone" ･･･ The craft only for "The Regena ". Neviril & Amuria(#16- later : Aael) pair boards in Ep.1 Type A

"Beard. " ･･･ Paraietta / Caim 　pair boards Type C

"Dorsal fin. "・・・Alti / Floe　pair boards. Type F

"Pair-hone(T or 干) " ･･･ Rōdoreamon’ｓ　Special machine, "Sagitta" is changed each time after Erii(Erifu) leaved
* Heavy armed two fixed high speed machine-gun ?? Type D

"Round-tail " ･･･ Because of retired "PAL"(Auriga & Sagitta pair) in Episode 1 Air-battle, Thereafter,"Aael " and "Sagetta" that she chose person
boards it. (mainly Mamina& Yun) * Long barrel machine -gun x2 Type E



"Twin-tail" ･･･ It is shot down by Episode-1, and the craft repaired and come back for Rimone/Dominura pair boards it by episode 5.
Type B

http://www.geocities.jp/emiri_0623/q-and-A-english.htm

[QUOTE]

Thanks. I guess that covers it. Where did the drawing come from?

Call Caput had three of the T-tailed Simouns, incidentally, when they all got shot down. I also wonder about the one Dominura/Limone ride in.. was it really the same one that got shot down? They sure repaired it quickly, if so. I wonder how easily those helical motori get damaged... I suppose recovering them from wrecked Simoun would be easier than trying to dig up new ones from whereever they were digging them up.

Iskandar

[Kaoru Chujo]

Morinaga Rika (Mamiina), who is in the new cast interview, is also in the new show Chokotto Sister, where she plays the stereotypical mischievous neighbor in a boarding house who drinks and chases guys and squeezes the other girls' breasts. It's a role Asano Masumi and Yukino Satsuki have played versions of before.

As for the other people in the video, Nazuka Kaori stars as the young girl in another new show, Innocent Venus. The only new show I see Takahashi Mikako in is Zero no Tsukaima, where she is the aristocratic but somewhat clueless student sorcerer Montmorency. And Toyoguchi Megumi is called Lenny Vikro in Innocent Venus in a more normal role for her: a tough, brilliant deputy commander. As I describe these roles, it reminds me once again what a superior show Simoun is.

[wowo]

cast messages

They do one every month, I wonder if they'll continue once the show is over?

I think it's funny how clueless the voice actresses are about the technical information about the show (like the Helical Motors), and some people can't say their own character's name.

BTW, does anyone know where I can hear ep3 for the radio show? I missed it.

[Guppy]

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

I'd be surprised if there wasn't really more than that. The flying reserves might be two aircraft, but there would be also be aircraft undergoing repairs and maintenance, etc.

Rechecking some references, I get the impression that 18 was about the usual number, give or take, and the difference between a flying strength of 12 and 16 was actually more about attitudes than aircraft. A USAAF squadron in the Med would use 12 aircraft on a normal mission and 16 on a maximum effort, whereas the USAAF in the Pacific (in keeping with the "patchwork" nature of that campaign) put up everything that was serviceable, 16 being considered an ideal rather than a "must-have."

Interesting data point - the Mustang squadrons handling long-range escort over Tokyo were "augmented" to 37 planes and 57 pilots. If we assume the odd man out is the squadron CO and his personal aircraft, we can probably estimate that a "typical" squadron would have 19 planes and 29 pilots.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

It'd be easier to sustain losses and integrate replacements if the replacements were already with the Squadron, rather than having to maintain larger groups of reserves in separate depots and having to rush them immediately to the squadron when one or two get shot down, especially if the squadron was flying day in and day out.

Perhaps, but it's also worth bearing in mind that prepositioning the replacements at the front line is wasteful of fuel and ferry pilots' time, if losses occur in a different pattern than expected, and also exposes the spare aircraft to greater risk of being destroyed on the ground. The policy would make sense, though, if heavy losses were anticipated or there were more than enough extra airframes to go around.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

Heh.. I read the book before I watched the show. By the time I was finished, I detested Cattermole more than I detested any other character in any book I'd ever read. The TV show cut out what would have been the best part - Steele-Stebbings giving Cattermole his comeuppance.

I haven't seen the TV series yet. I actually enjoyed the fact that most of the characters acted like jackasses at one point or another - although the sheer amount of open or barely-veiled hostility among the pilots attracted quite a bit of criticism of this "larger than life" portrayal, I gather.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

Which reminds me - I was more amused the second time around when Aeru brought out the big grocery bag of snacks for Limone in episode 4. I didn't get it the first time, but after watching her chomp snacks episode after episode....

That was funny. Showed that Aeru is actually quite observant, even if she's frequently insensitive.

I actually like Aeru/Yun quite a bit as a flying pair - both are steady under pressure, and Aeru's brash optimism balances Yun's reserved fatalism nicely.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

I also wonder about the one Dominura/Limone ride in.. was it really the same one that got shot down? They sure repaired it quickly, if so.

One thing that shocked me was the apparent lack of interest in salvaging the crew from downed Simoun. When Chor Tempest encountered the badly shot-up Simoun in episode 1, I'd expected them to at least follow it down to watch the crash-landing and check for survivors, if not actually detach someone to retrieve them. It's interesting that the battle-hardened Aeru turned out to care more about such things than any of the Chor's original, all-miko complement did.

[fignae]

Originally Posted by wowo

They do one every month, I wonder if they'll continue once the show is over?

I personally don't think they will. I've been calculating. 9 characters have been dealt with, all members of Chor Tempest. The ones left are Morinas (Mizuki Nana!), Alti (Toyoguchi Megumi), and Floe (the young Aizawa Michiru). I'm fervently wishing they'll be able to get on the next one. We have two months left (oh boy), and maybe, just maybe, there will be time for minor characters? Heh. I need my favourite seiyuu-san on there!

I think it's funny how clueless the voice actresses are about the technical information about the show (like the Helical Motors), and some people can't say their own character's name.

True. It isn't just them, though. TV actors do it sometimes. Just shows that they don't watch Simoun. But I missed the part where someone couldn't say their name.

Originally Posted by wowo

BTW, does anyone know where I can hear ep3 for the radio show? I missed it.

The current one should be ep 3. They were aired on the 17th, 24th, 31st, weekly right? But if you're missing any just PM me.

I've just now noticed that Takahashi Rieko (Neviril) was on the #264 of Takahashi Mikako's radio show too. Weird.

[Kaoru Chujo]

The TV series will be over, but they will still be trying to sell DVDs, so perhaps they might keep the radio show going, anyway, if not the cast interviews. I have noticed that the radio shows sometimes carry on.

As for the actors, in the first radio show Takahashi Rieko (whose performance as Neviril I love) had trouble saying her own character's name. I don't want to offend any actors, but I have noticed that many good actors tend to be poor interview subjects. It's a mystery.

And I notice a new item in the Simoun official site news: some of the seiyuu will be appearing at the C3XHOBBY show in Tokyo on 20 August: Niino Michi (Aaeru), Takahashi Mikako (Rodoreamon), Morinaga Rika (Mamiina), and Koshimizu Ami (Paraietta). As well as Savage Genius, who do the ED. Details (in Japanese) are here.

Originally Posted by fignae

I've just now noticed that Takahashi Rieko (Neviril) was on the #264 of Takahashi Mikako's radio show too. Weird.

Practice, lol. Also the incestuous world of entertainment: mutual back-scratching?

EDIT: I've just been reading 2channel and thinking about the widespread opinion there that Mamina...

Spoiler for speculation based on ep17:

...now has the death-flag. I found several of her recent scenes so moving: the one with Harukonf, the one walking away from Rodoreamon in the hall, and especially the new lullaby scene. Was Yun crying because she was losing Mamina to Neviril and/or Rodore? Or just because of the melancholy song?

What was in the look Mamina gave Yun when the new pairing was announced? I've wondered what Mamina and Yun's relationship was, and the new closeness between Mamina and Rodore must actually mean a lot to Mamina, no matter how she expresses herself.

I hope none of them die, but Mamina is growing and changing so much, and becoming so much more at peace than she was that it would be extremely sad to have that development stopped before she really feels at peace with herself and the world.

Perhaps we will see a sibylla rebellion -- sibylla in their simouns being stronger than anyone, man or woman -- instigated by a sibylla whose grandparent was a rebel, or at least a religious freethinker.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Sorry to double post, but there is now an mp3 rip of Rodoreamon's lullaby at the end of ep18...

Spoiler for where it is:

...on Tokyotosho.

[Iskandar Taib]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Morinaga Rika (Mamiina), who is in the new cast interview, is also in the new show Chokotto Sister, where she plays the stereotypical mischievous neighbor in a boarding house who drinks and chases guys and squeezes the other girls' breasts. It's a role Asano Masumi and Yukino Satsuki have played versions of before.

I'm looking forward to Chokotto Sister, since I'm really enjoying the manga (scanlated by Kotonoha). Sort of a Maison Ikkoku type story, with some Chobits thrown in. A little heavy on the fan service and innuendo, but even that's funny. Those little elephant reflections (somewhere around chapter 20) had me in hysterics.

[Key Board]

death in this anime is quite ambigious

::is interested about the other side::

I predict Aer and Nevril will cross over too

[warainagara]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler for speculation based on ep17:

I hope none of them die, but Mamina is growing and changing so much, and becoming so much more at peace than she was that it would be extremely sad to have that development stopped before she really feels at peace with herself and the world.

Spoiler for for ep 19:

Seeing Yun began to make a cradle used for the dead, I thought it might be really put for someone after all.
Grrrrr....She finished in in ep 18 and now they are rumoring about a death in ep 19.
According to Simoun netabare thread, it's not just rumor, though.
But at least it seems they don't know who.
No way, Mamina....
She has much to do with Rodoreamon.
But if it's really Mamina, would they give a hint in such a explicit way as the striking scene in the preview?
I had thought Yun is always on the dangerous borderline but this episode strangely weakened the prediction.
I am being tortured while waiting for the omenous ep 19.

[Maids! Maids! Maids!]

I just slammed through every page in this thread hoping to avoid reposts. I didn't open spoiler tags, however, so I hope these images weren't tagged and hidden.



The first image is a higher resolution version of a previously posted image.

Spoiler for Megami-style ecchi-ness. Naughty bits covered. Maybe a little yuri:

And a screen cap.

[wowo]

Originally Posted by fignae

I've just now noticed that Takahashi Rieko (Neviril) was on the #264 of Takahashi Mikako's radio show too. Weird.

Wow! Thanks, this is so much more interesting than the Simoun Radio.
I especially liked the bit where Rieko confesses she doesn't even know how to connect to the internet - "yes, I want to hear this net radio thing (she doesn't even know what she's doing lol), but I have to do some sort of contract thing?". Seems like her friend gave her a PC and it's used as decoration.

Rieko also talks about how she auditioned for Simoun, how she's doing the acting, and how much she loves Guragief and Anubituf (she wants to seem them in live action? weird stuff).

Anyway, thanks for the link!

[fignae]

Originally Posted by wowo

Wow! Thanks, this is so much more interesting than the Simoun Radio.

And thanks for translating! I'm only halfway through it, relishing the bits of information they're throwing out (by replaying in order to understand, bah). I think the Simoun radio show is too structured, with the letters from viewers and the limited time available. The seiyuu aren't given enough time to just chat and let things flow naturally. And the segments where they pretend to be their characters are just bad. What a waste.

Rieko also talks about how she auditioned for Simoun, how she's doing the acting, and how much she loves Guragief and Anubituf (she wants to seem them in live action? weird stuff).

It's so cute! This is the second time she's said she likes Guragief. (Hee.) It was either her or Koshimizu Ami, in the cast intro.

[Iskandar Taib]

Originally Posted by Guppy

Rechecking some references, I get the impression that 18 was about the usual number, give or take, and the difference between a flying strength of 12 and 16 was actually more about attitudes than aircraft. A USAAF squadron in the Med would use 12 aircraft on a normal mission and 16 on a maximum effort, whereas the USAAF in the Pacific (in keeping with the "patchwork" nature of that campaign) put up everything that was serviceable, 16 being considered an ideal rather than a "must-have."

The USAAF fighter wings (squadrons) in Europe used 16. By 1942 everyone had adopted the German "rotte" and "schwarm", so 16 made sense. The RAF stayed with 12, though I wonder how they dealt with three sections of four when the squadron was, on the ground, oraginized into two flights. I suppose the third section might have two pilots from each flight. Back when there were four sections of three it was simpler. Not sure how the Navy organized its squadrons, either, or the Germans, for that matter. (I found it amusing that, at least on the Eastern Front, the Luftwaffe's policy was that the leader in a pair was the one with the greater number of victories, so you often had sergeants leading officers.)

Perhaps, but it's also worth bearing in mind that prepositioning the replacements at the front line is wasteful of fuel and ferry pilots' time, if losses occur in a different pattern than expected, and also exposes the spare aircraft to greater risk of being destroyed on the ground. The policy would make sense, though, if heavy losses were anticipated or there were more than enough extra airframes to go around.

If the squadron weren't flying (and being engaged) every day, then it would be OK to have just enough pilots to put up a full strength squadron. However, in a non-stop situation, it makes sense to have more pilots than it takes to put up a full strength squadron. That way, the pilots get some time to rest and if someone gets shot down, the squadron can still be at full strength the very next sortie.

One thing that shocked me was the apparent lack of interest in salvaging the crew from downed Simoun. When Chor Tempest encountered the badly shot-up Simoun in episode 1, I'd expected them to at least follow it down to watch the crash-landing and check for survivors, if not actually detach someone to retrieve them. It's interesting that the battle-hardened Aeru turned out to care more about such things than any of the Chor's original, all-miko complement did.

Yeah, that surprised me, as well, that they didn't wait to see what happened, though it's possible they knew the remaining crew member was going to be OK, if the Simoun can land automatically. I suppose the actual recovery crews would be ground-based. So far we haven't seen any "transport Simoun" or "work Simoun" (other than those things they used in Episode 11), so I don't know how they do the recovery operations. Come to think of it, I haven't seen roads, or the equivalent of trucks or cars, either.

[Guppy]

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

The USAAF fighter wings (squadrons) in Europe used 16. By 1942 everyone had adopted the German "rotte" and "schwarm", so 16 made sense.

The ETO was the priority theatre, so naturally if anyone could make 16 work it would be them. Even so, it's worth noting that in 1943 it was a good day if the three squadrons of a P-38 or P-51 group could muster forty or more aircraft between them - thirty-plus was the norm.

A bit more checking suggests I've been conflating my numbers - the modern US squadron is 18 aircraft, but prior to modern cost escalations and budget cuts it was 24 with 36 assigned pilots. This seems to tally fairly well with the "maximum effort" figures of sixty-plus aircraft per group from 1944-5 European operations.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

The RAF stayed with 12, though I wonder how they dealt with three sections of four when the squadron was, on the ground, oraginized into two flights. I suppose the third section might have two pilots from each flight.

Well, if they used the same 3:2 pilot/plane ratio as the USAAF (thus giving 18 planes and 24 pilots), then there should be no problem at all. In practice, I wonder if the "A Flight / B Flight" distinction really mattered that much, particularly as replacements came in.

Similarly, if we weren't running out of episodes it'd be interesting to see the demographic changes among the Simoun Sibyllae as the war dragged on. As more of the prewar mikos opted out or became casualties (and with combat duty being a definite disincentive to aspiring priestesses), you'd expect to see more people like Mamiina and Aeru who don't care too much about the religious hierarchy.

Originally Posted by Iskandar Taib

Back when there were four sections of three it was simpler. Not sure how the Navy organized its squadrons, either, or the Germans, for that matter.

The prewar USN operated 18-plane fighter, bomber and torpedo squadrons. Using CV-3 Enterprise as an example, during the war the fighter squadron's strength increased from 18 to 27 and then 36 - probably reflecting the fighters' importance in both attack and defence, and later on their versatility as their bomb-carrying abilities increased.

(I found it amusing that, at least on the Eastern Front, the Luftwaffe's policy was that the leader in a pair was the one with the greater number of victories, so you often had sergeants leading officers.)

I got the impression that the Luftwaffe flew a very high proportion of frei jagd missions in the East - perhaps that made rigid command structures less necessary. Kind of like how Simoun Chors don't seem to need much of a command hierarchy, since their mission objectives are rarely more complicated than "fly to point A - see enemy - blow up enemy."

If the squadron weren't flying (and being engaged) every day, then it would be OK to have just enough pilots to put up a full strength squadron. However, in a non-stop situation, it makes sense to have more pilots than it takes to put up a full strength squadron. That way, the pilots get some time to rest and if someone gets shot down, the squadron can still be at full strength the very next sortie.

Ah - I thought you were talking about having extra planes, before. Certainly it's better to have more pilots than planes, since people can get sick or exhausted fairly easily (although Aeru and Neviril somehow managed to fly a reconaissance mission lasting over 24 hours - I wonder how many sleep and bathroom breaks they needed to stop for). The last thing you'd need is to be short a plane because a pilot decided to act like Neviril and lock herself in her room.

Come to think of it, it's a good thing Mamiina knew what she was doing when she commandeered the kitchen. Can you imagine what would've happened if the whole Chor came down with food poisoning from that mouse stew?

Yeah, that surprised me, as well, that they didn't wait to see what happened, though it's possible they knew the remaining crew member was going to be OK, if the Simoun can land automatically.

Sure, but how could they be positive that neither the Auriga or the dead-looking Sagitta needed prompt medical attention? I suppose playing air-ambulance wasn't their job, but then none of Chor Tempest really struck me as that combat-hardened in episode 1. At the time, I thought they might simply be a bit on the callous side regarding human life ("inshallah" or something like that), but later episodes contradicted that idea. I'm still not sure what they were thinking... maybe they were just too shocked by the loss of so many Simouns to really consider stopping to help out.