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Old 2006-08-02, 16:07   Link #21
RedFrame
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Isn't that Akatsuki while deactivate, its armour also turn grey ? if it only coating, then i think the colour wont be changing.. i gues :/ (its turn grey right .. ?)
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Old 2006-08-02, 16:11   Link #22
Skyfall
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It has allways been golden, i think its the coating. I doubt it has PS armor. And btw - Forbidden / Calamity / Raider also never turned grey , they had color all the time
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Old 2006-08-03, 01:04   Link #23
4Tran
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Technically, lots of Gundams (and other mobile suits) have some sort of extraneous equipment that could be stripped out for something more advantageous. Take the original RX-78: it's formed from its leg, chest and Core Fighter pieces. If these separate parts were eliminated, and it was permanently a single unit, the extra mass could be replaced with either more ammunition, armor, or propellant. The same goes for any transformable units, etc.

In addition, real-life war machines are constrained by the trade-offs their designers agreed upon. There's pretty much no such thing as 100% efficient usage of mass or volume, so it shouldn't be impossible to add a piece of equipment internally. This is especially true if the war machine is designed for that equipment at the conceptualization stage. Incidentally, I would say that pretty much all mobile suits are far too large (in volume) for their intended roles, but that's a topic for another thread.

Finally, the torso is one of the best places to mount a large-caliber weapon. It's a centralized position which is easy to armor, relatively stable, and has lots of room for internal ammunition stowage. There's no need for it to be a slow-firing weapon, so it should be fairly effective even if the mobile suit's arms are otherwise occupied. In fact, perhaps the only more ideal spot for a weapon would be right between the hips if it's closer to the mobile suit's center-of-gravity, it's also a more stable firing position. Even here, a torso mount is probably still superior, since a crotch mount is far too phallic to take seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNT1
Red Baron has a plane that is "Three times as fast" as a normal fighter, no wonder he got 80 kills
Actually, Char's paint scheme is a rather obvious riff on von Richthofen's famous all-red Dr.I. Incidentally, the Red Baron was well-know for being a rather poor pilot (instead, he was a superb marksman), so having an extra-fast plane may not have been to his advantage.
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Old 2006-08-03, 02:36   Link #24
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Red Baron being said to be 3 times as fast is a joke lol, its because of the Fokker DR-1 or the Fokker Tri-plane which he made famous. Its the only plane to have a triple set of wings, which the engineers who designed it were really glad to know that more wings = better performance lol

It wasn't really 3 times as fast, it wasn't any faster than biplanes, but the 3 set of wings gave it extra lift. Which he used it extensively to do flips quickly over the plane chasing him so that he can turn the dog fight over. While diving back down with the flip from a higher altitude, thats when he made his kills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Re: aces.
And Erich Hartmann had 352 kills.
Yea I heard of that, but too bad nobody knew him.

And back to the topic, I'd agree that the crotch would be a good place to mount cannons lol

The closer to the centre of gravity, the better the spot to mount a gun. Ironically its the super robots who have guns mount in a more realistic position than real robots do. Ideon, Goshogun, Daimos, are some super robots with crotch guns. A whole bunch of them have built in chest and abdomen beam cannons.

Hand carried weapons are inpractical for mechs, even worse is that those guns have to be triggered by the mechanical fingers. Its actually less real compared to the built in weapons of super robots. Instead of triggering mechanically, a remotely controlled shot by the pilot from the cockpit would be more realistic.
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Old 2006-08-03, 03:26   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Hand carried weapons are inpractical for mechs, even worse is that those guns have to be triggered by the mechanical fingers. Its actually less real compared to the built in weapons of super robots. Instead of triggering mechanically, a remotely controlled shot by the pilot from the cockpit would be more realistic.
I can't think of a single reason for putting a physical trigger on a mobile suit weapon. It increases response time, increases the chance of accidental discharge, and makes the weapon more complicated. The weapon has to talk to the mobile suit's targeting system anyways, so it should be relatively trivial to have the firing command routed through this communication as well.

** Warning: WWI trivia ahead **
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Red Baron being said to be 3 times as fast is a joke lol, its because of the Fokker DR-1 or the Fokker Tri-plane which he made famous. Its the only plane to have a triple set of wings, which the engineers who designed it were really glad to know that more wings = better performance lol

It wasn't really 3 times as fast, it wasn't any faster than biplanes, but the 3 set of wings gave it extra lift. Which he used it extensively to do flips quickly over the plane chasing him so that he can turn the dog fight over. While diving back down with the flip from a higher altitude, thats when he made his kills.
Oh, I knew it was in jest, I was actually responding in a similar vein.

The Dr.I was actually a German attempt at copying the earlier Sopwith Triplane (one of my all-time personal favorite planes) made famous by the "Black Flight" and Raymond Collishaw. The triplane design was famous for having an excellent climb rate, and turns. However, the Dr.I in particular was relatively slow diving and in level flight. What was particularly distressing was that they also tended to disintegrate when the wings were stressed this was especially common in steep dives.

As for von Richthofen, by the time he was assigned the Dr.I, he was already the commander of JG1. Since most of the Red Baron's kills were achieved against two-seaters, it was highly unlikely that he relied on the Dr.I's maneuverability to evade enemy attacks. Instead, he likely used its excellent climb rate to gain an altitude advantage, or its turn rate to reduce his deflection angle against enemy aircraft. As I pointed out above, von Richthofen wasn't a very good pilot, so he probably avoided trying any of the more exotic maneuvers.
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Old 2006-08-03, 05:10   Link #26
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Hmmm I see, I didn't know the Fokker was a copy lol. What I learnt was that the designers reasoned that 2 wings was good, 3 must be better.
-----------

Back at mechs, real robots are said to be 'real', but no real robot ever designed has been practical at all. Simply because the humanoid frame is not a good form for a war machine. Standing upright is just asking to be shot lol

If triggers are useless, fingers themselves are impractical, why not a built in gun- arm, a built in beam sword could be added as well. Legs are totally useless for space-only MS, but most MSes themselves have little use for their legs, except for standing around.
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Old 2006-08-03, 05:25   Link #27
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Colour me wrong if I am, but if I recall, no MS which uses handheld weapons like handguns or beam rifles actually fire the rifles via trigger, minus if it's traditional weapons with physical rounds. I've always thought that those weapons run in the same concept that a beam saber can only generate beam when being held in the hand, where the power source powering the saber generated from the reactor moves from the core to the hand powering the saber.

I think it works the same way with beam weapons, where electronic signals from the cockpit tells when to send the electric signal from the cockpit to the core to the beam rifle directly to shoot, rather than sending a signal to the fingers to move to literally pull the trigger.

From my friend's PG Wing, I sure don't see any trigger on those weapons.
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Old 2006-08-03, 05:33   Link #28
C.A.
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I just checked my models, all Beam rifles have triggers, especially the case for CE beam rifles. I don't think the triggers are there just to be there lol

EDIT: Weapons from Gundam W don't seem to have triggers, at least not for Buster Rifles, Double Gatting Guns, Dober guns and Mega Cannons.
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Old 2006-08-03, 05:45   Link #29
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
I just checked my models, all Beam rifles have triggers, especially the case for CE beam rifles. I don't think the triggers are there just to be there lol

EDIT: Weapons from Gundam W don't seem to have triggers, at least not for Buster Rifles, Double Gatting Guns, Dober guns and Mega Cannons.
That is dope. They had the right idea with beam sabers, but not with rifles?

Maybe the trigger is the equivalent to the infra-red sensors on the rifle? Detects if the electric signal sent to the beam rifle matches with the correct power source. Wait, but there's Andy using Strike's beam rifle......But maybe all Terminal members had their electronic frequency syncronised. I'm drawing lines here.......

But seriously, I sure had never seen any MS in SEED/Destiny pull their triggers.

Frankly, real is not really real in the first place, so I guess it doesn't really matter.
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Old 2006-08-03, 06:48   Link #30
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
That is dope. They had the right idea with beam sabers, but not with rifles?

Maybe the trigger is the equivalent to the infra-red sensors on the rifle? Detects if the electric signal sent to the beam rifle matches with the correct power source. Wait, but there's Andy using Strike's beam rifle......But maybe all Terminal members had their electronic frequency syncronised. I'm drawing lines here.......

But seriously, I sure had never seen any MS in SEED/Destiny pull their triggers.

Frankly, real is not really real in the first place, so I guess it doesn't really matter.
Well, I would agree that I've never seen them pull any triggers, but:

I just checked, Freedom's Xiphias Rail guns actually have triggers too lol

And Freedom never triggered the Xiphias when he does Hi-MAT Full Bursts.

Could it really be? Those triggers are just there for show?
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2006-08-03, 07:50   Link #31
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Or maybe, they thinks guns without trigger are little bit weird / not-cool :/
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Old 2006-08-03, 08:50   Link #32
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Back at mechs, real robots are said to be 'real', but no real robot ever designed has been practical at all. Simply because the humanoid frame is not a good form for a war machine. Standing upright is just asking to be shot lol
True. I can envision a ground role for powered armor up to about 2.5-3m in height, but anything larger than that is in a battlefield role that is better served by conventional tanks, aircraft, etc. However, giant robots look cool, and are easy to personify, so they work better for anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
If triggers are useless, fingers themselves are impractical, why not a built in gun- arm, a built in beam sword could be added as well. Legs are totally useless for space-only MS, but most MSes themselves have little use for their legs, except for standing around.
Hands make for rather poor weapons mounts, but they tend to have more uses outside of combat. They can use a variety of tools and equipment for engineering, construction, tunneling, etc. Of a less practical nature, hands can be used for drawing pictures and even making rude gestures . Legs, on the other hand, are just about always impractical.

Incidentally, I just watched a lot of Macross, and the Quadraunau armor in particular seems to reflect a more logical design aesthetic: while it's armed to the teeth, all of its weapons were mounted either in its forearms, or in its torso.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Could it really be? Those triggers are just there for show?
That would truly be hilarious. Ironically, it also would be rather consistent with how Gundam mecha are protrayed.
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