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Old 2006-08-21, 19:52   Link #41
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonZ
What...? There wasn't a One Year War type conflict going on. It's mostly an internal conflict between two factions which want to control the future of the Earth Federation. That kind of complaint can be used against ZZ, not Z.
Even if the Gryps War is a smaller conflict, it still counts as a war. However, that wasn’t really my point: I think that Zeta’s portrayal of the conflict feels completely wrong. I’d say that even Gundam X and Turn A fare better in this regard.
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Old 2006-08-21, 20:01   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
Even if the Gryps War is a smaller conflict, it still counts as a war. However, that wasn’t really my point: I think that Zeta’s portrayal of the conflict feels completely wrong. I’d say that even Gundam X and Turn A fare better in this regard.
Or Macross... yeah

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Old 2006-08-22, 18:55   Link #43
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It’s a bit of an unfair comparison since SDF Macross is one of the most convincing portrayals of military action I’ve yet seen in anime. It had two ideas that few shows, Gundam or not, share: mecha are war machines, and there’s absolutely nothing special about them; and a single pilot can contribute to a war, but the conflict is far too big for that pilot to prove completely pivotal. It’s not every show that has two final battles, but the protagonist still plays very small roles in both cases.

Sadly, Zeta Gundam does not do any of these as it promotes the ability of an individual pilot to greatly influence a war.
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Old 2006-08-24, 16:49   Link #44
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"Zeta Gundam" is the highest Japanese rated old school Gundam series ever!(RATING: 6.6%)
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Old 2006-08-24, 17:58   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Hey, I don't mind watching GSD for eternity. It's a million times more entertaining than Zeta to me. I'd have a good time with that.
Oh god here we freaking go again. You do realize roughly 1/3 spread out from the beginning to the end of Gundam Seed Destiny is based off of Zeta Gundam don't you.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2006-08-24 at 19:32.
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Old 2006-08-24, 20:28   Link #46
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Even if Destiny stole 100% of its ideas from Zeta, it would still execute them differently. Therefore, it's quite legitimate to prefer one (much) more than the other.

Of course, I'm highly skeptical of your claim that 1/3 of Destiny is taken from Zeta in the first place. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
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Old 2006-08-24, 20:50   Link #47
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There are a couple things I can think of (although they are not quite up to 1/3 of Zeta, not even close).

Psycho Gundam - Destroy Gundam
Stellar - Four

Those were the obvious ones.

But Shinn is no Kamille, and thank Goddess GSD isn't as dark. Geez, watching Zeta is like watching a propaganda film on "how to quickly end your life by taking a dose of cyanide ".

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Old 2006-08-24, 21:03   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundam Pilot
"Zeta Gundam" is the highest Japanese rated old school Gundam series ever!(RATING: 6.6%)
IIRC, the reruns of the original got much higher ratings. I believe above 20%.. which is why Gundam became so popular in the first place.

And just to add something about Zeta.. it's seriously overrated. Overall, it was a decent series, but not one that deserves all the praise it gets.
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Old 2006-08-24, 21:24   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkWarrior
IIRC, the reruns of the original got much higher ratings. I believe above 20%.. which is why Gundam became so popular in the first place.

And just to add something about Zeta.. it's seriously overrated. Overall, it was a decent series, but not one that deserves all the praise it gets.
Few things first

Almost every Gundam Takes from other ones...Dont tell me when you were watching Seed you were not thinking...This is ridiclous close to MGS.

Second, I agree on Zeta. Alot of people praise it as the best...OBviously just because they kill off over half the cast. Its like so having the majority of people die makes it a great thing...look at VII, People act like it created videogame deaths lol. But the problem was with Zeta...It just became so predictable because of it. Lets just keep killing people off. Its like I can see them saying"Need more deaths"
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Old 2006-08-24, 22:15   Link #50
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The Stellar – Four comparison was the most obvious one to me as well. Unfortunately, one of the worst ideas in Zeta ended up as one of the worst ideas in Destiny.

While Zeta is a little on the depressing side, I'm sort of curious as to why so many people call it dark. After all, most of those deaths don't occur until the very end, and it's not as if they really affected the story all that much.

I don't think that lots of characters dying is necessarily either a good thing or a bad thing. It comes down to how well it's executed, and whether they serve the story or not. In Zeta's case, the deaths don't really contribute to anything, but they don't really detract from anything either. It's almost as if the creators were trying to deliver some sort of message with them, but it sort of got muddled along the way.
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Old 2006-08-24, 22:20   Link #51
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For me it's wasn't just kill off half the characters make Zeta the best, It was the overall presentation of it that got me hooked.
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Old 2006-08-24, 23:54   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Oh god here we freaking go again. You do realize roughly 1/3 spread out from the beginning to the end of Gundam Seed Destiny is based off of Zeta Gundam don't you.
I'm sorry did I strike a nerve there? I'm with 4Tran, if you're going to claim a third of GSD was hijacked out of Zeta, prove it. And even so, that doesn't change the fact that Zeta put me to sleep faster than a handful of sleeping pills while Seed Destiny was at least still fun to watch even when it sucked.

I pretty much liken Zeta to the Da Vinci Code movie, and how I was checking my watch every five minutes because I wanted to be over and done with it. Most of all I hate Zeta because I was told by at least twenty people that it was basically god's gift to the Gundam franchise and I was disappointed to find that it was anything but.
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Old 2006-08-25, 03:31   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
Even if Destiny stole 100% of its ideas from Zeta, it would still execute them differently. Therefore, it's quite legitimate to prefer one (much) more than the other.

Of course, I'm highly skeptical of your claim that 1/3 of Destiny is taken from Zeta in the first place. Do you have any evidence to back it up?
I said based off of not stolen verbatim. A lot of the returning characters fill similar roles to those of the returning and new characters from Zeta and MSG. Also a number of plotlines, not a lot, but a few of them feel like Zeta Gundam, so maybe more like 1/4 here and there, which amount to 13 episodes worth of content and plot. To be honest though I don't really remember much of Gundam Seed Destiny beyond episode 25 since I spent most of it in a coma from watching the same footage over and over, I would just skip over the parts with the flashbacks by 5 seconds at a time because they always made the same retrospective comments every time. I figure I if were to go back and watch Seed Destiny and know what was coming up, it wouldn't feel so jarring and unsettling when the narrative changed drastically around episode 15 and I'd be able to enjoy it a bit more. That and I would know which episodes where the clip episodes now and could just skip over them so the story would unfold faster.

Judging by your stance on Zeta there's pretty much no point in arguing my point as I'll make about as much headway with my argument as I'd make with Obi-Wan (Read None)

I mean really Obi-Wan, you never really even mention any aspect of Zeta be it a character, arc, narrative or well anything that annoyed you about it, you'll mention the character, but just that they suck or that the story is boring, but never why. Its like you've never even seen it or well finished it at least, but you hate it like it was the spawn of Satan himself. But You do like G Gundam, which is one of my favorites so at least we agree on something, that and TV-Nihon and Deacon Blues big mouth. It's just every single time someone decides to do a topic about any Gundam series other than Seed and Seed Destiny you're there to tell us how much you hate that Gundam Series, that's good that's nice at least the show has a supporter on this board, I don't particularly like Seed Destiny, but whatever. But if someone does like Zeta or any other UC series, why do you always have to start a pissing contest with them. Without, UC Gundam there would be no Seed or Seed Destiny, so I can't see how you can hate it so much. Sure it went on forever and got a bit stale at times, but without it, no AU, period, we would have an unremarkable one shot called Freedom Fighter Gunboy instead.

To some people its there series is greater than every other and everything else has no right to exist. It's a no win situation, some people just hate it. I didn't expect this to turn into a bash Zeta thread but I guess its a change from the usual bash Seed Destiny which has been done to death, sure it was bad but at least its somewhat interesting when put into SD Gundam Game scenarios.

Zeta shows its age I know and a lot of the time it feels like they just launch into battle for the sake of it every episode, but the characters had a lasting impression on me, thats why I like it.

Oh and its an oft held assumption that Tomino would kill off his cast so that he wouldn't be forced to right a sequel. He was constantly trying to escape from Gundam but Bandai kept chasing him down to make a new one. Sometimes it got a little overkill though like in Dunbine.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2006-08-25 at 04:11.
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Old 2006-08-25, 08:10   Link #54
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Most of all I hate Zeta because I was told by at least twenty people that it was basically god's gift to the Gundam franchise and I was disappointed to find that it was anything but.
That's sort of the way I felt going in. It started well, and the middle section was downright interesting, but the end was just a mess. When I finished Zeta, I seriously wondered if I had just missed something that other people managed to get. I liked Zeta a lot more than Obi-Wan seems to have, and I tend to not pay much attention to the minor foibles of a show I like, but I still couldn't help but pick at some of the more glaring faults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
I said based off of not stolen verbatim. A lot of the returning characters fill similar roles to those of the returning and new characters from Zeta and MSG. Also a number of plotlines, not a lot, but a few of them feel like Zeta Gundam, so maybe more like 1/4 here and there, which amount to 13 episodes worth of content and plot.
This doesn't really sound like a case of Destiny being based off of Zeta, it sounds just like a case of frame of reference. You seem to just be over emphasizing minor similarities. The plots for the two shows are nothing like one another, and the characters are substantially different save for Stellar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Without, UC Gundam there would be no Seed or Seed Destiny, so I can't see how you can hate it so much. Sure it went on forever and got a bit stale at times, but without it, no AU, period, we would have an unremarkable one shot called Freedom Fighter Gunboy instead.
I'm not sure how this argument is supposed to work; liking a show doesn't mean that you can't hate its predecessors as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama
Zeta shows its age I know and a lot of the time it feels like they just launch into battle for the sake of it every episode, but the characters had a lasting impression on me, thats why I like it.
I don't think that Zeta's age is a knock on it. Most of the people who hate older shows wouldn't watch it in the first place. Those who do, tend not to judge purely on age or appearance. If anything, they are probably more likely to give Zeta a few allowances because it's older.
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Old 2006-08-25, 08:30   Link #55
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Zeta's new cast of characters was a lot more likeable than GSD's, I'll give it that. And it has better battles, but I don't watch it for battles alone. I just don't understand why the fact that I watched all 50 episodes of Zeta and was bored with the story altogether doesn't qualify as enough reason to say I hated it. Like I said, so many people said it was the best Gundam series and I was extremely disappointed because it got my hopes up.

Even though I wouldn't classify GSD as a "great" series, it was at least done in an entertaining enough way that I didn't have to keep my eye on the clock during each episode. And I don't hate all non-SEED or G Gundam shows. I've said many times here that MSG and the UC OVAs are very good and powerful stories. I just have a problem with Zeta and Victory because of the pacing and lack of an engaging story. Victory I've only seen 29 episodes of and it's so boring I doubt I'll ever finish it.
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Old 2006-08-25, 10:14   Link #56
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It doesn't matter if GSD is based off Zeta. In addition to individual taste, the order you watch them may also be a factor. If one became a Gundam fan by watching Wing / Seed / Seed Destiny and then go on to watch Zeta, I would think it'll be extremely difficult to prefer Zeta for the sole reason that it's not Wing / Seed / Seed Destiny and doesn't have Heero / Kira / Shinn / whoever.

It sorts of remind me of the Final Fantasy VI & VII argument. The large majority of RPG fans that played VI first claim it's the best FF ever and VII is a pile of crap. But VII was the first RPG to become mainstream and introduced a lot of gamers to RPGs (I was one of them). Naturally, VII is my favorite RPG of all time. Now all these veteran RPG gamers keep telling me VII is overrated and I should play classics such as VI or Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest V, but no matter how much I want to like them, I'm always left disappointed.

It's not really fair but that's reality.
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Old 2006-08-25, 12:41   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
Zeta's new cast of characters was a lot more likeable than GSD's, I'll give it that. And it has better battles, but I don't watch it for battles alone. I just don't understand why the fact that I watched all 50 episodes of Zeta and was bored with the story altogether doesn't qualify as enough reason to say I hated it. Like I said, so many people said it was the best Gundam series and I was extremely disappointed because it got my hopes up.

Even though I wouldn't classify GSD as a "great" series, it was at least done in an entertaining enough way that I didn't have to keep my eye on the clock during each episode. And I don't hate all non-SEED or G Gundam shows. I've said many times here that MSG and the UC OVAs are very good and powerful stories. I just have a problem with Zeta and Victory because of the pacing and lack of an engaging story. Victory I've only seen 29 episodes of and it's so boring I doubt I'll ever finish it.
Yeah its probably the case of the high expecations versus enivitable let down. I don't know why people always have to go and do that, hyping a series so much that the person will go in expecting nothing but perfection and be let down. I've had that happen to me so many times that I've decided to always go into a show with zero expectations and let it carry me along regardless of its overall quality, and it significantly decreases the gag reflex you get when the quality is severely lacking and you fell its impossible to keep watching. For me though Zeta was my second Gundam series after Wing, and the first I saw in its entirety so that might explain why I hold it such high regard. Maybe its a cast of first viewed as the best for me like it is for fans of Video Games where the first they played tends to be the best.

Oh 4Tran you're whole most people who don't like older shows wouldn't be watching them anyway, yeah, nail on the head right there.
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Old 2006-08-25, 14:47   Link #58
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I thought one of the reasons zeta was great is being one of the first dark-themed animes (by killing people off), and the later shows kind of follow suit? I dunno what the standard of pacing was back then, but maybe being episodic is desirable to keep first timers and once-in-a-while watchers interested. Dont take my word for it tho; zeta is the only old anime that I've ever watched XD;

One of the reasons I love zeta is because of the suits. Zeta's design was beautiful, and Titans Mk-II is still on the top of my fave list X)
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Old 2006-08-25, 15:41   Link #59
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@obi-wan gsd was entertaining at first then when the old cast came back as the good guys, well it's safe to say gsd jumped the shark. i never liked the seed cast (sans rau, fllay,(not at first) yzak,natarle and some times kira)
here's why
kira:yet another accidental gundam pilot and he bacame dead boring after he got freedom.
athrun: i've seen his kind too many times.
mwu: he could have reminded me of servral people examples are ryu jose,straight cougar, kaji(nge) and unfortunetly slegger law. thoose guy had lots of moments, mwu had his death and well one moment dosen't make a character.
dearka: a failed version of chiboode(sp?) crocket.
murrue:a big boobed idiot.
nicol: very under developed.
tolle:same thing.
sai and kuzzey: useless.
lacus: a stinking mary sue.
cagalli: a failed version of relena.
andy: liked him at first then when he came back he was arg.
azreal and patrick: they're praticlly dbz villians.
uzumi: a ripoff of relena's father.(not the real one)
astray girls and druggies: lacked development so i could neither like or hate them.
as for the cast of zeta the guys i hated are wong and thoose annoying little kids!had no problem with new cast of gsd.

@guy above me, same here!
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Old 2006-08-25, 15:47   Link #60
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So you don't like SEED characters. Whatever. What does that have to do with Zeta being boring and a complete let down to me?

And ROFL at most of those comparisons. DBZ villains...lawl what a crock of donkey shit.
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