2024-03-26, 12:31 | Link #1501 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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And yeah, he let his son go to Namek, a place that as far as they knew didn't have any major threats and was populated by countless members of Piccolo's race, because Gohan had a deep bond with him and felt responsible for his death and thus wanted to be part of his revival. I'm not saying he's the perfect father. I just said he isn't the absolutely terrible father people claim he is. As I said, part of it is that he and Gohan kind of lived in different worlds. There's not much he could do to help Gohan in his pursuit of scholarship; best he could do was continue training and increasing his range of abilities so if something happened he'd be able to deal with it. At the least, he's not particularly worse than Vegeta in the fatherhood department, it just looks that way because Vegeta's got more in common with his son. |
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2024-03-26, 14:06 | Link #1502 | |
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Join Date: May 2018
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I disagree with you about this Son Goku's anger was the important thing there he even mentioned only that when he changed himself and after he changed himself. Son Goku isn't an abusive parent but he is still not a good parent. |
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2024-03-26, 18:58 | Link #1503 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
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2024-03-26, 20:36 | Link #1504 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Well let's see... Freeza reappears. Goku tells both Krillin and Gohan to get away fast. Freeza kills Krillin, then says Gohan's next. Goku transforms, again tells Gohan to get out, and to bring Piccolo with him since he's hurt but still alive, then stops Freeza from killing them too, and the battle starts. It's not 100% Gohan, never said that (big difference between "I think it's primarily Gohan" and "it's all Gohan period"), but no, I don't think it's as cut-and-dry "you killed my friend" as you say. How much is "I have to stop you" and how much is "I have to hurt you for what you've done" is hard to say, but there's definitely some of both, and I personally felt like there was more of the former than the latter. But then, I've long felt from all the different transformations that desperation is a more frequent and powerful catalyst than simple vengeance. Same thing with Gohan transforming from desperation because he knows what will happen if he doesn't, him transforming again when everyone he loves is nearly killed (and one person gave up his life to tell him he doesn't need to hold back), and even later with Cabba in Super finally snapping when Vegeta declares he's going to wipe out all the Saiyans of his universe. In all cases there's definitely anger involved as well, but there's certainly room to argue that a desperate need plays a big role, and "I have to protect Gohan" fits that part far more than "you killed my friend".
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2024-03-27, 06:41 | Link #1505 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
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I don't know if this counts but back when Piccolo was shot in the manga, Goku already had some unstable expressions in the manga as if his eyes were going white. Then again, I'm kinda surprised that the whole Super Saiyan was first executed as a beta form in the Slug movie where Goku is covered with a golden aura, his hair goes up, it stays a bit light brown due to the aura but his eyes stay big rather than small.
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2024-03-27, 07:33 | Link #1506 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
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Age: 37
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2024-03-28, 01:22 | Link #1507 | |
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Anyway, even if concern for Gohan wasn't the core catalyst of his change at that point, it doesn't change my main point from the start: he cares a whole lot more about his son that people often say, and while he's far from the best father, he's not bad. At least until he started to be Flanderized in later portions, particularly Super. |
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2024-03-28, 07:36 | Link #1508 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Toyotarou stated on his Twitter that Toriyama added the final scene of the latest chapter with Piccolo (known to be his favorite character) waving at the teacher as well as the reader (given the paneling) a few days before his passing. He was saying goodbye to us
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2024-03-28, 22:18 | Link #1509 | |
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Either way, honestly back when it aired on CN I really wished they'd actually switch it out and let Gohan be the hero. I think he would've made an awesome hero if Toriyama had let him; yeah, he probably would've still ended up with some similar situations like focusing too much on studies to maintain his power, thus requiring catch-up, but I for one would've loved such a timeline. Makes me wonder if anyone's done/considered an AU fic along those lines. |
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2024-03-28, 23:12 | Link #1510 |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Earth
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Dragonball itself already fulfills your AU wish, and that's the Bojack movie, a non-canon movie where Gohan finds perfect balance between training and studies.
And I always thought Goku was a good father. He is the one who leads not by what he says, but by what he does. At the end of the cell saga where everyone, including gohan, looks goku as a role model and inspiration. And we are all good with that. Then the buu saga happens XD
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2024-03-29, 17:12 | Link #1511 | |
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Legit one of the best movies, in large part for that. If only he didn't have to get a pep talk/anger boost to go SSJ2 again it would've been in contention for best. Also shoutout to Hildegarn/Dragon Fist for also remembering that Gohan is smart in fighting too, can figure out an enemy's tricks, and also knows when it's time to stop the Saiyaman nonsense and get serious. |
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2024-04-03, 23:49 | Link #1513 | |
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So basically, more stupid than any other lack of virtue. |
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2024-04-04, 07:29 | Link #1514 | |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
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2024-04-04, 14:10 | Link #1515 |
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All this came up as soon as Goku forgot Pan for a time. I will say that Goku definitely needs to sort that out in his present. It's no fun being the kind of guy who seems to not fulfill his role as parental figure. He definitely has a good heart, it seems that bump on his head and how he was raised ignorant of certain world things has him be too complacent in terms of things outside of martial arts. We've seen him go nuclear on anyone who harms his family and friends. That's still one of the good thing he has. As for the Buu stuff. While I know I wanted him to get his son and Trunks. Kid Buu already caused a planet busting explosion...He and Vegeta didn't have a lot of time. They did get Hercule(Mr. Satan) who people worshipped more than the both of them and Dende was still alive to contact New Namek to use their Dragon Balls.
I'm still not a fan of people ragging on Goku, but that part is on Toriyama as well for writing Goku like that. Right now I'm more interested in Beast Gohan and what Goku can do to better himself, because man that choice with Frieza really came to bit him in the rear. |
2024-04-05, 10:12 | Link #1516 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
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When it comes to transformations, I think we can't ask anymore. Finally after the Cell and Buu arc, Piccolo was given his own power up, while Goku, Vegeta and Gohan were given their own forms rather than a Super Saiyan. If they use more transformations, it will feel more like more demands for toys were made.
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2024-04-05, 21:30 | Link #1517 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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They certainly have dumbed him down a lot. In the original Dragon Ball he knew what marriage was but thought Chichi was talking about konjac because engagement sounds almost identical in Japanese; when she later showed up to marry him and he realized his mistake, he did it with a full understanding of its meaning. Then somewhere along the way he turned into a guy who'd managed to father two boys without knowing what a kiss is. Which kind of makes the Abridged version of their love life fit an awful lot.
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2024-04-15, 06:56 | Link #1519 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
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It kinda feels like Toriyama was really in charge of Super's writing but I don't say it because of how he became a horrible grandad but because of how the Granolah arc expanded that mini oneshot about Goku's parents that Toriyama wrote himself in the past. This seems more obvious by the fact Shueisha claimed the hiatus is indefinitive as if Toyotaro was only the artist.
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