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View Poll Results: Higurashi Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 36 33.64%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 31 28.97%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 14.02%
7 out of 10 : Good 13 12.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.80%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 6.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.93%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.93%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-08-26, 21:15   Link #81
Matrim
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I knew I should check the tips one more time before asking that question.
It's interesting that the time of death for K1 is a few days later than the one of Shion, I guess he has been recovering for a few days before Ooishi came to tell him about the "walking dead", possibly causing the hallucination. Unless Oyashiro-sama sent the ghost of Mion or something, that is.
I guess K1's heart couldn't cope with the extrme stress of seeing this "ghost". Although it's weird that he saw or at least thought he saw quite scary things in Onikakushi, too, yet he didn't suffer from heart failure. What if his death was caused by yet another mysterious drug?
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Old 2006-08-27, 02:03   Link #82
Alu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
That's not true, Ooishi describes Rika's death in detail. Apparently she was killed in pretty much the same way as in Tatarigoroshi-hen.

You sure about that or this is a conjecture? We don't see what happens with Keiichi apart from witnessing him being attacked by an angry psycho twin, most likely in his imagination.

The explanation you are putting forward does seem the most obvious...and that's exactly why I don't buy it. Looking at the deaths alone, we might try with other guesses - let's say Onibaba staying alive - gas disaster (assuming it happens in Onikakushi). Or Shion dying - no disaster.
Ah.., you got me on the part where Oishi describes Rika's death with detail.., I guess I overlooked that on episode 15.., however I was positive that her type of death had been similar to what happened in Tatarigoroshi-hen.., since it would make the most sence if I base my previous speculation on it

On the Keiichi status at Meakashi-hen / Watanagashi-hen.., I always speculated that due to his paranoia and on how he became so mentaly unstable by the end of the events.., that that image of Shion was all in his head.., and due to the shock of it.., ended up causing his death.

However like theacefrehley and BakaOnna previously mencioned.., the latest TIP's posted come to comprove this, in which in fact.., ended up beeing as what I posted.

Well, obvious or not.., I was only able to come to the conclusion / possible conclusion that on how Rika dies influences the disaster or not.., after going through and reviewing all the death lists , and note that some are not mencioned on the TIP's.., as what most happened on Onikakushi-hen; hence so many status beeing left "unknown" aswell.

However currently its the only explination I find for something that influences the disaster or not; Onibaba's status seems irrelevant to me.., aswell as some of the other characters (such as doctor Irei aswell for example) on this aspect.

It seems to me and as we saw through the notes of Shion.., that Onibaba did control somewhat part of what happened regarding the curse.., but all and all on more "un-natural aspects" her involvement I belive was none whatsoever.
Hence it wouldn't make sence to place her status.., since again.. on this.. she is irrelevent.

Or should I say.., not as relevant as all the characters I chose to post the status

I still cannot give full support to my speculations.., for alot of the misteries on Onikakushi-hen are still left on the open.
Hence.., I hope that maybe once Tsumihoroboshi-hen progresses we can see if the way on how Rika dies has any influence on the disaster happening or not

Oh.. and Shion seems to die in every arc except one; so far only on Onikakushi-hen we cannot tell.., since her status is "unknown", and I do emphazise "unknown" here
Anyway.., its pretty safe to say that she is not the one who causes any influence to the disaster.

-
Edit :
-

Oki, I went back to episode 15 and reviewed the details on Rika's death in Himatsubushi-hen.

So.., based on what we know from the TIP's and from what we saw on the Episodes ; here is the now Full death status list on all the Arcs currently to this point so far :

Spoiler for length:


As we can now see, Rika's type of Death on Himatsubushi-hen is supposedly equal to that of on Tatarigoroshi-hen.
So far.., the only 2 arcs we know of where the Gas Disaster did occur.
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Last edited by Alu; 2006-08-28 at 04:33.
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Old 2006-08-28, 10:27   Link #83
LostBlue
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I finally got to watch EP 21... it wasn't as horrific as I thought it would be, but *sigh* It's quite unfortunate the shear amount of stuff they skipped.

Spoiler for Other Skipped stuff:


Overall, the anime Meakashi Hen wasn't bad. Even if I didn't have my game knowledge I still think I would have hated that end. They should have given Shion's death a little more closure (like the Akane or the Oishi TIP) even if it was for a minute. *sigh* oh well.

Last edited by LostBlue; 2006-08-28 at 14:14.
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Old 2006-08-28, 15:50   Link #84
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Alu:

Very long and involved and detail and it makes me think:

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-08-28, 17:48   Link #85
Wanderer
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I have had the strong suspicion that Rika's type of death could have something to do with the gas disaster ever since episode 15.

Really, I think that Meakashi-hen is only a minor step in the greater mystery about what all these arcs are, and who is important in the greater picture. Basically, I think of Meakashi-hen as having its main mystery (The identity of the twins) as a more or less classic, logical type... which is within a greater supernatural mystery. It is why we see it first of the answer arcs, kind of as a prelude to the main course.

Up until now, I've thought that the main possibilities for the connection between the arcs consisted of:

A) The simple "Logical Answer". They are not even different, the viewer is just presented with information that makes it seem like there are these different events that coincide with the same time.

B) Parallel realities. They are different outcomes from a different set of decisions. The arcs are similar in content and setting, but there is no further connection between arcs.

C) Resets. Some people (or gods) have memory of the previous arcs. It may also be possible for normal people to remember as well (for example, Keiichi's memories at the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen of events we saw in Onikakushi-hen)

D) Transversable realities. They are like B, but there is a connection of some kind.

Up until now, I've more or less been undecided on whether I liked C or D better. The new poem for the next chapter
Spoiler:


pretty much confirms resets (C) being the answer. However, I've been ignoring:

E) Transverable Resets. It is like C but there is also a connection of some kind in absolute time.

I had this kind of idea floating in my mind for a while, but couldn't get my head wrapped around it very easiliy. For beings with memory, any two-way interaction with other arcs would be, in a way, time travel... even if the absolute time in both arcs was the same. Basically, it leads to a paradox.

However, what if the being(s) that observe the multiple outcomes have a non-linear sense of time? It is a common idea in many religions that gods have this attribute. We also know that Rika, or more likely, something that spoke through Rika, predicted the future accurately. Could this be how she(it?) knew the future?

At this point, I believe it is probably C, but I won't rule E out just yet.

The main questions now are:

How are the resets activated? Do the resets trigger on their own, or does someone or something make a decision to activate a reset? It doesn't seem to be anyone's death, since we've seen everyone die at least once and the world still moves on its own after their death. Or are multiple scenarios "run" at the same time?

How are the resets related in time, both absolute (for the outside world) and subjective (for beings able to percieve each successive reset with memory)? We are able to see many years passed the events of 1983 at times. Does it take that long to reset, or (again) are multiple scenarios "run" at the same time?

Who has memory of previous resets? Does Rika? Or does only whatever speaks through her have memory? Or does everyone have a dormant memory as well?

At what point in time do the resets diverge from? The time of Tsumiboroshi-hen?

Anyway, just things to think about. I think I'm gonna try to convince my friends who have a modded PS2 to get the game, or maybe even get it for them. It is for PS2 right?
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Old 2006-08-28, 20:09   Link #86
Shuin4
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I was rewatching Meakashi-hen the other day, and I just realized I probably feel the worst for Shion. I can definitely understand why she went on her murdering rampage, and even how she had her mental unstable-ness beforehand. (

I mean, first of all, she was supposed to be killed at birth. For whatever reason she wasn't, but she still had to pretend she had no relation with the Sonozaki family or Hinamizawa. She basically didn't have anyone at all, except for her bodyguard (it didn't seem like she exactly missed anyone at boarding school)

Then she falls in love with a guy who didn't even know she existed until their last meeting. She finally has SOMEONE that could make her happy, but he kinda dies/mysteriously disappears.

Also, was it me, or did Shion have like no friends, except for Mion? Whenever she pretended to lock herself up in the prison cage, it was like nobody cared (except for Keichii, but that's because he still thought she was there)

It's like nobody even wanted a Shion to exist, which just makes that
Spoiler:
line even better.

EDIT:: Ok, now that I've actually watched the episode...

Spoiler:


i did really like this episode, it's just that the last scene was too quick, especially for a character this show was centered around for 6 episodes.

Last edited by Shuin4; 2006-08-29 at 21:48.
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Old 2006-08-29, 00:34   Link #87
Menshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer
C) Resets. Some people (or gods) have memory of the previous arcs. It may also be possible for normal people to remember as well (for example, Keiichi's memories at the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen of events we saw in Onikakushi-hen)
That option really does sound very likely. Has anyone else thought maybe this anime is following the "Donnie Darko" story line?Where the main character was the living receiver that needed to save the world by going throughout the events leading up to a disaster. And he had to go throughout the scenario's and see how he could stop it and what would happen to people *It really reminds me of Higurashi after the current arcs/tips* I sort of think Rika is the one that retains memories since she knew how and when she would die. And that her goal is to find whats the common link between what causes the disaster possibly?
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Old 2006-08-29, 11:33   Link #88
Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
Now that you mention it, was this covered in the anime? I don't remember hearing it. Did they skip that part?

Spoiler for true identity of the twins:
This is a shameful thing that the anime makers did here. I understand they left a lot of interesting things out, and have since been able to accept some misses but...

Spoiler:
I've been trying to get some of my friends to watch the anime for a while, but I've changed my mind. Even though our Japanese is only so-so, I will only recommend the game or the manga now. As for myself, I'm so far in that I may as well finish it.
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Old 2006-08-29, 19:08   Link #89
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Spoiler:
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Old 2006-08-29, 19:22   Link #90
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When an episode thread reaches 5 pages even before the fansub is out, you know that it is an controversial episode . As I haven't played the game I think this ep was good but not great. Didnt expect Shions death to be an accident and I didnt think that Shion really stabbed K1. This ep also strengthened my beliefs that its an logical reason to the events. Also when looking at the preview it seems there is a new character introduction in next ep, interesting
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Old 2006-08-29, 20:58   Link #91
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Poor Satoko. I thought her arms would have been fallen off after the first few slashes.

Anyways, same as above poster. Just watched the fansub and originally I gave it passing marks. It brought closure to those who haven't enjoyed the game yet. This episode was as we expected, tying up the loose ends that were posed in the Watanagashi arc.

However, after going over the discussion in this thread by the game playing otakus, I can understand now the true potential this episode had and how instead of the events that us viewers could have probably inferred from the earlier arcs, we could have gotten a dose of something with much more depth to it. I would really like to have enjoyed watching the Shion monologue scene that those of you who have played the game have mentioned.

The game definitely intrigues me, because it seems to bring about that sense of complete closure that is somewhat amiss for those who haven't played it. I admit that some explanations still confuse. However, it also seems that watching the anime after playing the game has only brought disappointment to the majority.
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Old 2006-08-29, 22:04   Link #92
Sinestra
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Nightmares tonight for sure

OMFG Once again Higurashi manages to freak the hell out. I knew this episode was going to be graphic but it was still hard to watch and yet at the same time i couldnt keep my eyes off the screen. Poor Satoko there is no way her arms would have held out that long i cant even fathom the pain she was in. At least Mion went quickly the stun gun knocked her out she she really did feel anything. All the other events with K seem to have played like they should have.

I was hoping to have gotten a glimpse at the bottom of the well and see just how many bodies were down there.

Do we know for sure who/what kill Satoshi? if so i think i might have missed it.

Not fimilar with the upcoming arc can someone give me a quick run down?
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Old 2006-08-29, 23:13   Link #93
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After understanding the dialogue, this episode turned out all right for me. It's still a 7.5. Anyway, I like Sakoto a lot more after her speech. I feel really bad for the characters in this series. They always get all this bad crap thrown at them. It's too late to post any theories I have with the incidents and how they're related to the Sonozakis so I'll just leave that for another time.
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Old 2006-08-30, 01:24   Link #94
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As if it wasn't already secured in my spot as number one anime of all time, episode 21 has just further reinforced my notion that this anime freaking rocks. The mystery, the suspense, the questions...

But above all, the characters. I think only Elfen Lied can even hope to come close to even rivalling Higurashi's amazing characters and their development. Shion's development in this episode is nothing short of brilliance. Mion's characterization that occured a few episodes earlier...wow. What else can boast such dynamic, interesting characters?
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Old 2006-08-30, 04:08   Link #95
LostBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicke
Also when looking at the preview it seems there is a new character introduction in next ep, interesting
New? XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by i0td
I would really like to have enjoyed watching the Shion monologue scene that those of you who have played the game have mentioned.
I may TL it as it was my favorite scene in this arc but it's 22+ pages of text so I probably will not post it anytime soon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by i0td
I admit that some explanations still confuse.
Ask anything that confused you about this chapter and I'll do my best to explain it to you as long as it's not a spoiler. (I've already slap on the wrist once in this chapter ^^; ). I think after the anime ends I'll make a summary of questions and their answers for each of first 3 arcs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra
I was hoping to have gotten a glimpse at the bottom of the well and see just how many bodies were down there.
I've posted this in a few places but this is what exactly was found in the well.
The bodies of Sonozaki Oryou, Kimiyoshi Kiichirou, Furude Rika (there was a broken syringe in her pocket), Hojou Satoko and 3 partial skeletons that have been in the well for at least 10 years. The police believe if they dig deeper they may find more bodies. (Source Watanagashi Hen epilouge)

The key is they have to dig meaning anything under there will be older than the 3 partial skeletons. Since all three skeletons were in the well for over 10 years this pretty much confirms that the Sonozaki were not involved in any of the killings in the past 5 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra
Do we know for sure who/what kill Satoshi?
No. His status is still unconfirmed as "Onikakushi"

Quote:
Not fimilar with the upcoming arc can someone give me a quick run down?
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinkster
Shion's development in this episode is nothing short of brilliance. Mion's characterization that occurred a few episodes earlier...wow. What else can boast such dynamic, interesting characters?
For Shion fans, re-watch Tatarigoroshi, especially after watching Tsumihoroboshi
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Old 2006-08-30, 04:29   Link #96
rogueblade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
Spoiler:


Uh....what?

Spoiler for In the episode:


Although this is comin from a non-gamer, i thought this episode was EXCELLENT. I wasn't really annoyed that they re-used some footage of the previous arcs, as without it the story wouldn't have flowed as easily as it did. The Satoko scenes, and the final twists at the end were VERY well done, imo.
Yes, we were treated to the usual "10,000 faces of Mion/Shion" - in fact

Spoiler for For Mion's "gomena sai" (that's how you spell it right?):


To be honest, i don't see why so many people are complaining about this episode. If it bugs you that so much was left out (although, i'll concur that the doll scene and Mion/Shion thing were pretty important), why don't you just watch the anime as the anime and not compare it to the game?
Oh well - Big thank you to the WinD FS group for the episode, as usual.
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Old 2006-08-30, 05:35   Link #97
Alu
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hmmm.. I have to say to me aswell.., this was another great episode

However I can understand why some said they where dissapointed, specialy those who played the game.., after seeing the episode, then looking at some of the spoilers regarding parts which weren't covered.., we can definitly say alot was left out..

Still.., they did what they could, and thanks to the TIP's & other posts.., I don't think anyone who sees it and then reads all the additional information will feel as if watanagashi-hen / meakashi-hen lacked in relation to the other arcs.

Spoiler for my thoughts on the episode:


Shion : "I'm sorry, everyone."
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Last edited by Alu; 2006-08-30 at 05:53.
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Old 2006-08-30, 07:57   Link #98
Varion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
More importantly, that stupid ambient music really pissed me off. Way to ruin your own dramatic scene, Deen.
What track did the sound novel use at that point? Just for comparison purposes.

But yeah, while I thought this arc was pretty good it definitely had the potential to be a lot more, even before I knew what was missed out. The two things that seem to be bugging me most now are:
1. The Faces - Really, stop it. It's not scary, it just detaches me from the scene half the time because they're that ridiculous. I really doubt they're going to fix all of these for the DVD release, and they're the main reason I may stop collecting. DVD1's still on its way - slow Amazon JP shipping is sloooow.
2. The Music - I liked the soundtrack originally, but maybe because I've got something to compare it to now it just feels... there. All the variations of Main Theme are still hauntingly good, as is that track from Tatari where Keiichi falls off the bridge, but apart from that they don't seem to do much other than drum or go 'oooo' with a chorus half the time - Kawai's work on Fate was far better. Just because music was an absolutely integral part of the sound novels (because text, sound effects, music and the occasional image was all they had) doesn't mean it's suddenly not important in the anime. Doubt they'll do anything about this at this point though. I'd kill to hear a new version of 彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ just once, but what're the odds? None. I love that track.

Oh well, other than that I'm still enjoying it. I can deal with everything they've omitted seen as I know they're short on time, but it bugs me when they do things like that (especially the faces) seen as that's not understandable time constraints - that's sloppiness.
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Old 2006-08-30, 08:03   Link #99
i0td
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostBlue
Ask anything that confused you about this chapter and I'll do my best to explain it to you as long as it's not a spoiler. (I've already slap on the wrist once in this chapter ^^; ). I think after the anime ends I'll make a summary of questions and their answers for each of first 3 arcs.
More like fuzziness and how the arcs tie together. There is really enough speculation in this forum to make anyone's head spin. However, for the non-game playing viewer, the episodes in this arc do make much sense of the Watanagashi question arc, so I'm somewhat satisfied here.

But okay, let me take you up on your offer and ask you this one that has been somewhat bothering me.
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-08-30, 08:41   Link #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i0td
More like fuzziness and how the arcs tie together. There is really enough speculation in this forum to make anyone's head spin. However, for the non-game playing viewer, the episodes in this arc do make much sense of the Watanagashi question arc, so I'm somewhat satisfied here.

But okay, let me take you up on your offer and ask you this one that has been somewhat bothering me.
Spoiler:
Read TIPS #113
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