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Old 2006-08-29, 20:09   Link #1
NightWish
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Rozen Maiden - Manga Discussion Thread

This thread is for the Rozen Maiden manga.

Please note that currently there will be only one thread for manga discussion. Since different people may be at different stages in the manga please use spoiler tags as appropriate. If you don't know how to use a spoiler tag, please read the BB Code FAQ.

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Last edited by NightWish; 2006-10-07 at 07:20.
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Old 2006-08-29, 20:09   Link #2
the.Merines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiseiseki
No more Flo? No more WTF pics? I'm jumping off a bridge!!

Furries? The only thing I hate more than furries are the people who like furries.

Tokyopop has replaced Sui's 'desu' with 'yes'.

Damn bastards...
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Old 2006-08-29, 20:31   Link #3
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may i ask why they did that? is totally changes suiseiseki's charater...
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Old 2006-08-29, 20:35   Link #4
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Because, apparently, localization is more fun than leaving the character's well-known quirks and trying to explain them on the last page. I'm mad at them for this, but at least we're getting RM manga...
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Old 2006-08-29, 20:51   Link #5
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its not that big a deal. if she went around saying desu most people wouldnt know what she was talking about. now, how are they going to translate nano and kashira?
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Old 2006-08-29, 21:03   Link #6
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Localization and translation are different. Leaving in cultural artefacts and not translating speech are different.

The 'leave it in and have extensive foot or end notes' approach is fine IMO, but I don't have any problem with replacing it with an English-language speech idiosyncrasy either. It is a translation, after all.
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Old 2006-08-29, 22:03   Link #7
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It still bothers me.

~kashira should be translated as "I wonder," which is pretty literal.
~na no... I'm afraid to ask. Isn't Hina in volume 2?
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Old 2006-08-30, 01:30   Link #8
Suiseiseki
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Replacing desu with yes makes no sense. It's as if Sui is asking constantly asking questions.

Ex. I hate chibi ningen ~yes.

We know Sui likes to say she hates Jun, but why does she now make her sentence sound as if she isn't sure?

I wonder if Tokyopop will translate Hina's 'unyuu' with 'it's yummy'?

It's white, soft, and yummy? That's just not right ~yes? Grabs gun and goes on a 'yummy' killing spree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the.Merines
It still bothers me.

~kashira should be translated as "I wonder," which is pretty literal.
~na no... I'm afraid to ask. Isn't Hina in volume 2?
'~kashira' will be translated as 'I'm a smarty pants and you're not nyaa nyaa'.
'~na no' will be translated as 'Look at me. Aren't I cute'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_pack
Bara's a freaking doll, but why do I find her so bloody sexy?!
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Old 2006-08-30, 04:36   Link #9
grey_moon
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Sigh sigh why didn't Del Ray pick it up?

I will be buying it, but I am sorely tempted to abuse it with lots of desu stickers.... Well I might change my mind if they take out nano and unyuuu....

Has it already been released? Could we do a petition or something?

Hasn't TP learnt anything from past attempts at changing core character attributes?

Their attitude frankly astounds me and smacks of arrogance... In my mind whoever is in charge of the translation must be like "Who cares about the original authors character design and concepts, I can do better with my interpretation!"

Go ahead alienate all of the current fans because you know whats best for us... If I wanted to read a localised comic, I would buy a localised comic, *BEEP* *BEEP* stupid companies who loose sight of their customer base....

OMG I didn't realise how pissed off this has made me!

Last edited by grey_moon; 2006-08-30 at 04:49.
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Old 2006-08-30, 08:30   Link #10
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^Agreed with the Del Ray part... Reading Air Gear Vol1, there were at least 3 pages of translation notes of romanized Japanese words or phrases they didn't translate because it would dilute the meaning.

Yes, Volume 2 came out yesterday. I was more worried about Xenosaga III and Disgaea 2, though... I preordered RM2.
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Old 2006-08-30, 10:52   Link #11
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Somewhere in USA, someone would be doing this.


1st line is a bunch of lies and shit. It's the 2nd line that is so very true.
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Old 2006-08-30, 11:25   Link #12
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@Flo - Of course RM can stand up to the TP abuse, but it's what I perceive to be the arrogance of the translator to change key characteristics that gets me. A translator translates, if they want to recreate a character then they should write their own series, could you imagine if a translator of Popeye decided that spinich wasn't localised enough and changed it to seaweed?
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Old 2006-08-30, 11:51   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon
@Flo - Of course RM can stand up to the TP abuse, but it's what I perceive to be the arrogance of the translator to change key characteristics that gets me. A translator translates, if they want to recreate a character then they should write their own series, could you imagine if a translator of Popeye decided that spinich wasn't localised enough and changed it to seaweed?
The problem is.. what does ~Desu specifically translate too ?
Trying to look at it from a translator point of view.., if set word has no specific meaning in set forgein language.., then the translator is faced with 2 choices..

1 is to continue to use the same word, even though it doesn't exist nor has it meaning in set forgein language, it exists for the sole purpose to emphazise the set caracteristic aspect of the character.

2 is to find a word that would assimilate to that of set word on the language the content is to be translated; a word this that would still carry the same purpose as the original one, and for that to happen.., it would have to be extramly carefully chosen.
However there is always the risk of making the character compleatly lose her innitial caractertics when changing such a accentuative form of speech.

Naturaly.., in this case since we all know Sui's speach and attitudes so well.., the translator would have without a doubt opted for the first choice..

And I do in fact always rather that, if anything is translated.., when upon such choices.., those in charge of the translation always choose to remain loyal to the innitial aspects rather then to change them; even if those don't exist in the language they are translating.

However not all translations are bad.., there have been cases when the 2nd option was used, and despite the risk always beeing present.., alot of translations where still able to pull it off without ruining the character.

All and all though, like we know.. Sui is a character that is very much dependant on her form of speech.., hence even if they had chosen a more proper word that would work in english to replace it.., none would cause the impact that the original has in Sui's speech.

So.., it is realy sad that within this group of work, much like in many.., people still don't make the right decisions..

And much like Grey.., I am realy angry at them for doing such.., but like I previously posted before..

~Desu will forever be ~Desu ! ~desu
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Old 2006-08-30, 12:51   Link #14
grey_moon
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Very good point about the translation of desu.... but most of the west now know words such as manga, anime, ramen etc etc because in general we are able to be open minded and in my opinion a decent market researcher would realise that something unique makes a better brand then something everyday and common place.

TP could have been brave and spawned a whole generation desus, but instead they will all be yes men...
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Old 2006-08-30, 15:39   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
1 is to continue to use the same word, even though it doesn't exist nor has it meaning in set forgein language, it exists for the sole purpose to emphazise the set caracteristic aspect of the character.

And much like Grey.., I am realy angry at them for doing such.., but like I previously posted before..

~Desu will forever be ~Desu ! ~desu
Yes. I don't understand why they feel a need to translate an expression that characterises a person. Translating it is pointless because first; its not the literal meaning that's important, its the way she uses it; no, just the FACT that she uses it in its original expression is important by itself. Second, translating it to 'yes' no longer represents her in the original way, and even worse, to the uninitiated who have no idea of the glory of the Temple of Desu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alu
making the character compleatly lose her innitial caractertics when changing such a accentuative form of speech.
That may well be what they have done by turning Desu into Yes..

This is for you, Suiseiseki.

DESU

On a positive note, seeing that Flo already has the translation, I'm going to Kino on Monday and buying it. And then I will 'blanko' the 'yes's' and fill them in with teh TRUTH.
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Old 2006-08-30, 18:00   Link #16
Kikaifan
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Translating a word in a translation is not localization and is not arrogant. It's doing your job as a translator.

If anything, using words from multiple languages for 'flavor' when the characters use one language is what annoys me. I couldn't stand the constant use of Engrish in Black Lagoon when the characters speech in Japanese was already supposed to actually be English... same with people who write fanfiction always putting random Japanese phrases in the character's mouths even though they write their dialogue primarily in English.

Gah.
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Old 2006-08-30, 18:25   Link #17
Potatochobit
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le compact disque

le compact disque

le compact disque

alot of countries including france and indonesia have alot of laws against using foreign languages in certain products and services. i know america has laws in the food industry, especially partaining to ingredients.

desu literally translates to .

or to the end.

the end!

however, i think desu has been used as a cute ending connotation in these current times. maybe it was because the tokyo people were sad that the kansai people had more interesting speech so they now go around saying desu~!
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Old 2006-08-30, 18:43   Link #18
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lol would be funny if they wrote *dot* instead of yes
why it shouldnt be changed? because desu~ is cute and unique...not being able to understand it is unique than to fully understand what yes means...
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Old 2006-08-30, 19:05   Link #19
Lost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan
It's doing your job as a translator.
Exactly. To (many of) them its just a job of translating. No else. I guess I've been spoiled on Fansubs.



Btw guys, going strong on 6K. I just cant wait to see how the OVA will generate more discussion. 300+ more posts to beating the Post your Photo Thread
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Old 2006-08-31, 00:47   Link #20
Suiseiseki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
Yes. I don't understand why they feel a need to translate an expression that characterises a person. Translating it is pointless because first; its not the literal meaning that's important, its the way she uses it; no, just the FACT that she uses it in its original expression is important by itself. Second, translating it to 'yes' no longer represents her in the original way, and even worse, to the uninitiated who have no idea of the glory of the Temple of Desu.
The yesu believers are infidils that must be converted to the Desu cult ~desu. There is only one Desu and her name is Suiseiseki ~desu.

Now I wonder if desu will be kept when the anime is licensed in the US.

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