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Old 2006-09-15, 23:03   Link #61
tkdtiger
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by animefullmetal
Man when sasuke fought it didnt even seem like he was trying and he was still able to stave him so i dont think hell be able to hold his own agaisnt Sasuke
I disagree. I mean they weren't trying to kill Sasuke so I don't think at anytime was Yamato seriously trying to hurt Sasuke. If anything I think this would atleast show that Yamato was around Sasuke's level and speed. Ironically it seems that Susuke also finally admits that Naruto is his best friend in his own funny sick kind of way as he finally tries to kill Naruto showing that he willing to kill his best friend to reach that new level.
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Old 2006-09-16, 04:07   Link #62
cheese4u
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n
It's difficult to compare because Sasuke is very good in taijutsu and genjutsu because of his sharingan and probably also Oro's teachings. Yamato is very good with ninjutsu, his chakra nature and shape manipulation seems to be above the others, just think about him being able to build a house, that must be a high level shape manipulation besides the nature manipulation of already 2 mixed natures. So one is better with tai and genjutsu while the other with ninjutsu, it's difficult to compare based on different kind of abilities.
However i think Sasuke's ninjutsu skills may rival that of Yamato, not equal in the ability of shaping+2natures manipulation, but better with raw power, that is he probably has some "that" jutsus and more chakra then Yamato to use them (especially in CS2 mode). So it's 2:1 or even 3:1 for Sasuke.


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I meant that kakashi said it to cheer up Naruto, you know in the same chapter they say how good Kakashi is with words, look how he made Yamato pay the bill I agree that Kakashi thinks seriously that Naruto will surpass him in the long run ( that would mean 10-20 years), however i think in the short term he was more likely just trying to give Naruto the needed self confidence that he can do what others were not able. But that one super-jutsu will not make Naruto instantly surpass Kakashi. For example Naruto still is not able to stand the genjutsu of sharingan masters, Naruto is still hot blooded in battles which means certain death against people like Sasori, Naruto still cannot understand more complex theory of chakra and therefore probably not able to do more advanced seals (like Kakashi did to Sasuke to suppress the CS), etc...
10-20 years? That is a mighty bold statement. If I recall Kikashi said that once Naruto learns this jutsu he'll surpass even him. I don't think learning this new jutsu is going to take 10-20 years.

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I agree, but an akatsukian is still too strong and smart for Naruto, i mean if he goes alone, look at the battle against the already crippled Deidara. Also Sasori would have poisoned him to death in a second.
Naruto has a strange way of overcoming odds. I agree Naruto's a bit dimwitted, but he knows what he's doing when it counts. Naruto is a genius in his own way, when it comes down to it he can pull of some kind of surprising move to catch his opponent off guard. Remember, we haven't seen Naruto actually fight? Everytime he fights he's using the power of Kyuubi for the most part, as opposed to pre time skip when he only used it when necessary, so we can't be sure what he's capable of.

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I disagree with this, Kakashi used the MS 3 times in a short period of time. His limit may be 1 or 2 (like he had with chidori, just less), he overused it. And the 3rd time he saved 2 konoha teams from certain death, nobody else had a proper jutsu against that.
All I was saying is that MS is not an overly reliable jutsu in Kikashi's hands. Sure he used it two or three times, but the third time was absolutely necessary or they would've died, otherwise he would've never used it the third time. Look at the aftereffect that it had on him, he did worse damage to himself then the enemy did on him, that doesn't sound like a jutsu that you should be using a lot. The way I see it MS is for Kikashi like opening the gates is for Gai and Lee.



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I think Kishimoto will follow the same path in part 2 as he did in part 1: Naruto begins as a dropout (he is the only genin, plays only a minor role in the actual fight against Sasori/Deidara, goes berserk, cannot control his power properly) and then as the story progresses he approaches Sasuke's/akatsuki's level from fight to fight becoming better and better. That allows Kishimoto to set up those situation where the hero seems to have no chance, and ... you know that
Well, that is true.



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I think right after the training Naruto might be able to face a weaker akatsuki, but Kishimoto will make us wait more time, so that Naruto can grow until the last moment to save Sasuke, that is about half years from now.
Yeah, I don't think he's going to fight Sasuke right away. But at the same time I don't think it's that far away. I feel like Orochimaru is going to be taken down in the next 30-50 chapters and Sasuke is either going to die or rejoin Konoha.


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Why would wood jutsu nullify sharingan powers??? I don't understand your logic here.
I just ment that Sasuke couldn't copy wood jutsu, so that would pretty much cut down the effect of the sharingan on Yamato.
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Old 2006-09-16, 12:24   Link #63
Mr. Johnny 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of the Uchiha
Emphasis was placed on Sasuke to stop his jutsu, Orochimaru knew he was about to kill them and stopped him. Team 7 as it was stood no chance against him.

It's the reason Naruto's training right now, to get stronger than him. The gap between Naruto and Sasuke will close after Naruto finishes training, Yamato will be behind them. IMO it would be Kakashi who would have held his own somewhat.
True...you know Naruto should talk more with Gaara...and send some Kage Bunshins there to talk with him...for some info or tips. Since as far as Bijuu abilities and skill i'd say Gaara "was" further then Naruto.

Before the end of the timeskip Gaara was already starting to fight without the Shukaku...when he faced Deidara he fought with his own strenght and died in the end..

Naruto only recently started to fight with his own strenght...even Sasuke is ahead of Naruto who fought and (definetly) trained without his special CS...

Dunno about you guys but do you really believe that Naruto will surpass Kakashi with just creating "this" new jutsu?

Shouldnt he focus on improving: speed, tactics, overall knowlegde about the world (reading the bingo book etc...really studying) doing missions (B or A ranked) with Kage Bunshins while training...

I mean if I were Naruto i'd send:
- 3 KGB (Kage Bunshin) to Kurenai (learn more about Genjutsu or even a technique if she has time)
- 3 KGB to Gai (learn more about Taijutsu, perhaps borrowing weights and learning new moves)
- 10 KGB to Tsunade (doing some missions...gain experience...B or A ranked missions...spying/assasination/escort) earn some money..
- 4 KGB to all other main villages and gather info about the village...

Rest would be used for training... after 2 weeks disperse the Kage Bunshins and just lie in hospital coma for 2 weeks for gaining a huge amount of experience and knowlegde..
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Old 2006-09-16, 13:51   Link #64
s-class uchiha
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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5
True...you know Naruto should talk more with Gaara...and send some Kage Bunshins there to talk with him...for some info or tips. Since as far as Bijuu abilities and skill i'd say Gaara "was" further then Naruto.

Before the end of the timeskip Gaara was already starting to fight without the Shukaku...when he faced Deidara he fought with his own strenght and died in the end..

I dunno know about that. It's hard to say how much of shukaku Gaara actually used. I presumed in that fight that everytime the sand turned into a the shape of a shukaku claw he was using shukaku.

My initial impression was that he was using Shukaku basically the whole time, though its hard to say right now...

I guess we'll have to wait and see how much Gaara can actually do w/o shukaku.

But yea, as for as sending KBs around, Naruto seems like the type who couldn't wouldn't learn to well from Gaara and esp Kurenai
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Old 2006-09-16, 14:15   Link #65
Lollerpants
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Isn't the only reason Naruto can even maintain so many KB becuase Yamato being there; I think they all have to be within the general vicinity for him to control Kyuubi's power or else the KBs will dispell on their own won't they?

At least that was the impression I had gotten.
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Old 2006-09-16, 14:22   Link #66
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by s-class uchiha
I dunno know about that. It's hard to say how much of shukaku Gaara actually used. I presumed in that fight that everytime the sand turned into a the shape of a shukaku claw he was using shukaku.

My initial impression was that he was using Shukaku basically the whole time, though its hard to say right now...

I guess we'll have to wait and see how much Gaara can actually do w/o shukaku.

But yea, as for as sending KBs around, Naruto seems like the type who couldn't wouldn't learn to well from Gaara and esp Kurenai

Well Gaara's use of Shukkaku is debatable. But we all know from the very beginning until now whenever someone used the power of their biju it was always stated by someone. I don't think they had a fight, and then 50 chapters later he finally mentions that he used Shukkaku. We already know he has Shukkaku so Kishi has nothing to hide by holding off on that information. So I don't see why he would use Shukkaku and then not say anything about it. Besides, I beleive Kankuro already told us how to tell when he's using Shukkaku. Whenever Gaara gets a starts to get a little crazy and sadistic, that is when he's using Shukkaku. Any other use of Shukkaku's power would've been stated.

As for Naruto learning from Gaara, I don't think that'll happen. Gaara and Naruto's fighting styles are far too different for him to learn much of anything from Gaara even if it has something to do with their biju. Naruto is better off learning from people he has in common with. Much like Naruto, Kikashi is very good at kage bunshin and surprising enemies with his jutsu. Jiraiya is like Naruto, basically because of their attitude, they're background, and even their flashy, loudmouth fighting style. I'm sure Naruto wouldn't have much of anything to learn from Kurenai or Gaara.
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Old 2006-09-16, 18:09   Link #67
s-class uchiha
Naruto = Painful
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese4u
Well Gaara's use of Shukkaku is debatable. But we all know from the very beginning until now whenever someone used the power of their biju it was always stated by someone. I don't think they had a fight, and then 50 chapters later he finally mentions that he used Shukkaku. We already know he has Shukkaku so Kishi has nothing to hide by holding off on that information. So I don't see why he would use Shukkaku and then not say anything about it. Besides, I beleive Kankuro already told us how to tell when he's using Shukkaku. Whenever Gaara gets a starts to get a little crazy and sadistic, that is when he's using Shukkaku. Any other use of Shukkaku's power would've been stated.
Well I can't say anything for sure until I see Gaara fight again, b/c as you said it's debatable. You could be right, but there a couple things I would say that.

1) I think Kankuro was refering to the transformation per se, and if Gaara is always using/borrowing from Shukaku all the time, kankuro wouldn't need to say it every time, only when he is thinking about transforming.

2) When he was facing Kimi and Deidara some of his attacks and defenses took the actual shape of Shukaku. THough its possible that he is just enamored w/ Shukaku (for good reason a la Naruto/Gamabunta kyuubi henge), I really do believe that Shukaku had something to do w/ it .

Like when he put up his ultimate defense w/ Kimi that Shield looked like a small shukaku (i think it was named shukaku too).

I don't know if he really needs shukaku for Desert Coffin and such or if he can still do them but they're not as strong or something. Yea i just got to see, but until then I'd have to say Gaara will not have the automatic defense, all his moves will be reduced in strength (maybe not by much), and have none of the Shukaku manifestation jutsus.

eh ... I dunno
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Old 2006-09-17, 18:46   Link #68
Kinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss rave
kill Itachi
as far as i can remember, Sasuke's ambition, wich wouldn't be let as a dream, was to kill itachi AND revive his clan. I say this because i think that Sasuke actually cares if he dies or not. There is no point on him killing Itachi like that...

Somehow, there is a gap here O_o
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Old 2006-09-17, 19:22   Link #69
Zek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinder
as far as i can remember, Sasuke's ambition, wich wouldn't be let as a dream, was to kill itachi AND revive his clan. I say this because i think that Sasuke actually cares if he dies or not. There is no point on him killing Itachi like that...

Somehow, there is a gap here O_o
Sasuke hasn't actually mentioned that since the very beginning of the series, IIRC. I think he totally lost sight of that goal later on as he became completely blinded by rage and thoughts of revenge. He doesn't care anymore about his own life, much less a future family. It is possible that Sasuke isn't really going to let Oro take his body, but if so I think it will be because he realizes Oro won't accomplish his goal, not because he's thinking about his future.
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Old 2006-09-17, 20:59   Link #70
gibits
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Off topic but it would be nice to see Gaara getting the 3rd kazekage's steel sand jutsu....... Kishi has already given us Yamato so i see this as a (cool) possibility. It would also show us that a "monster boy" is still as powerful, if not more so, when the demon inside them is removed.
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Old 2006-09-17, 21:01   Link #71
Zek
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Originally Posted by gibits
Off topic but it would be nice to see Gaara getting the 3rd kazekage's steel sand jutsu....... Kishi has already given us Yamato so i see this as a (cool) possibility. It would also show us that a "monster boy" is still as powerful, if not more so, when the demon inside them is removed.
I don't think Gaara will have to work that hard to regain the level of strength he had when fighting Deidara. He didn't undergo his transformation, so he wasn't using the real power of his Bijyuu like the 2-Tailed chick used hers, and he probably has a large supply of chakra left over from the amount of time he had Shukaku. Gaara is a genius by his own merits.
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Old 2006-09-17, 21:30   Link #72
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zek
I don't think Gaara will have to work that hard to regain the level of strength he had when fighting Deidara. He didn't undergo his transformation, so he wasn't using the real power of his Bijyuu like the 2-Tailed chick used hers, and he probably has a large supply of chakra left over from the amount of time he had Shukaku. Gaara is a genius by his own merits.
Transforming into a beast is not the only way of using demon power. Gaara was able to use his demon's power for a long time, whereas Naruto was using it for a short time. And in a short time, we know how much Naruto became capable of using the other chakra within him. Imagine that case for Gaara.

So, it is highly possible that the large supply of chakra he was using was originated from Shukaku. In that case, he would become more like Kakashi rather than Itachi, after the loss of Shukaku.
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