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View Poll Results: Higurashi Episode 26 Rating
Perfect 10 61 37.65%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 43 26.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 17.90%
7 out of 10 : Good 16 9.88%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.47%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 1.85%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 1.85%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 1.85%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2006-09-27, 22:07   Link #61
Malintex_Terek
Mahjong Triple Pro
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
What's the problem with one supernatural plot device? The whole rest of the story was based around logical occurences of events, motives, and real tools for each scenario; if anything, the supernatural bit only strings the different arcs together, for it doesn't have an extreme impact on the plot of each arc.

There's another extremely popular mystery series called "Death Note" that is entirely based on logical reasoning, though it has two supernatural elements that are essential to the plot. Rika's "shining" isn't even as essential as the Death Note or Shinigami, since she doesn't use her supernatural ties directly to manipulate the scenarios in any way.

...

Of course, I am saying this without knowing what happens in Minagoroshi-hen. :/
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Old 2006-09-27, 23:42   Link #62
rexlunae
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
What's the problem with one supernatural plot device? The whole rest of the story was based around logical occurences of events, motives, and real tools for each scenario; if anything, the supernatural bit only strings the different arcs together, for it doesn't have an extreme impact on the plot of each arc.

There's another extremely popular mystery series called "Death Note" that is entirely based on logical reasoning, though it has two supernatural elements that are essential to the plot. Rika's "shining" isn't even as essential as the Death Note or Shinigami, since she doesn't use her supernatural ties directly to manipulate the scenarios in any way.

...

Of course, I am saying this without knowing what happens in Minagoroshi-hen. :/
The problem with a supernatural "plot device" is that it destroys the entertainment of this series as a mystery, which is what made it interesting in the first place. There are, I believe, a lot of people who were sitting at home trying to find a way to reconcile the scattered and sometimes contradictory information we are given, with some degree of success. But now, why bother trying to explain why Keiichi could kill people with his thought? Because of the supernatural element, it can just be magic, and no further explanation is needed. Same with Takano holding conversations with people after she was supposed to have died.

It would be different if the supernatural elements were well defined from the beginning, but they aren't even well defined now, and we just were definitively told that the supernatural element is there in episode 25 for the first time (I firmly believe that prior to that point, all elements could have been explained rationally). It just cheapens the whole thing.

All in all, this series has been an entertaining distraction, so in that sense it works. But if the point of the anime was to sell the sound novels, it failed, at least in my case, because now I don't care about any explanations that could be offered.
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Old 2006-09-28, 01:25   Link #63
JarOfMayo
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Yea I can understand how a supernatural portion could make things kinda fluky...

But it would flawed to say that just because Rika is or in possession of flipping the hourglass of cycling worlds... Doesn't necessarily entail that everything else... even those things that are Rika related, are supernatural as well. You don't think believe that our main casts choices and paths followed in every world were all magic do you? Does Rika having/being a part of a supernatural cycle have a effective cause to people's actions?

(In a general sense causally they do, as without the cycle no other worlds... not even the first, Onikakushi would even occur... since nobody knows how many times Rika has had to relive the same month or so) Asides from this consequence of the cycling... does the supernatural in this story have "blame" to put for how things are? How things play out?

Its like the question posed at the start of the series in Onikakushi threads... Supernatural or logical explanation... Well it seems "or" is itself is actually incorrect.
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Old 2006-09-28, 05:19   Link #64
MarmoO
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Poland
If you expected totally rational explanations, I guess you didn’t pay much attention during Himatsuboshi. I just can’t wait for rantings after Minagoroshi
Spoiler:

I think ending of this episode strongly indicate there will be continuation .
Episode wasn’t bad except animation, I hope, when animating Minagoroshi Deen will be able to put much more “heart” in it.
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Old 2006-09-28, 10:38   Link #65
imac2much
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There's a few questions I still have that haven't been answered yet I think...

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-09-28, 11:51   Link #66
kj1980
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imac2much
There's a few questions I still have that haven't been answered yet I think...

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2006-09-28, 12:23   Link #67
imac2much
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Sorry, I misspelled it. This was taken from ayyo's summary of episode 26 on his site:

Spoiler:


I'm just wondering what scene is all about, since it ties into later arcs...
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Old 2006-09-28, 12:36   Link #68
rogueblade
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Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleutheria
By the end of the first arc when everything resets, it should've tipped you off that there is definitely a supernatural element to this, no? If not fantasy, then sci-fi alternate universe. One or the other.

It's awfully strange for you to not have picked this fact up through nearly half a year, and then write a rant about it when the anime ended.
Although i had an inkling that a supernatural force was driving the story, i was hoping that i was wrong and that there was a logical sequence of events behind it all. I was hoping that if you could overlay all the chapters you would get some clear sequence of events that stayed constant through all the chapters, and that would be the "true" story. Or at least there was an explanation on some other level than "It was all just a timewarp, end of guys, end of".

Your alleged "failed potential" is based on your expectation that this is a mystery story. Well, it most emphatically isn't--a close analogy would be me watching Haruhi and saying "WTF you explain plot line XXX with the line that she is a god? Screw this supernatural bs!" Granted, Higurashi is a lot less upfront about the supernatural bits, but I do think that the mere existence of resets is enough.[/QUOTE]

Uh... Haruhi is a comedy - i found it relied a lot more on the comedy/romance element rather than the plot. Higurashi is a suspense thriller - it relies heavily on plot. How can you compare how a comedy uses a plot line and how a suspense thriller uses a plot line?
Anyway, it wasn't ambiguous as to what was going on with Haruhi's status, while in higurashi, the viewer had a lot of space to formulate ideas.

Stilla great series, not denying that, but the final "twist" just ruined it a little for me.
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Old 2006-09-28, 14:29   Link #69
LostBlue
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SoCal
Quote:
Originally Posted by imac2much
Sorry, I misspelled it. This was taken from ayyo's summary of episode 26 on his site:

Spoiler:


I'm just wondering what scene is all about, since it ties into later arcs...
The guy you're talking about (I don't recall his name, but I thought it was something different) is from the Prefectural Police Department Criminal Investigation Department (I think was that was his section and I believe he is the chief of that section). His role in the overall story is fairly minor although I love the scene with him, Akane, and Oishi later in Matsuribayashi hen.

Basically, he's this guy who is butts heads with Oishi a few times in the course of the story. IIRC he might have been in a previous TIP when Oishi tried to get a search warrant and he denies him that request (don't remember all that well - might have been someone else). Socially in the Police Department Hierarchy this guy is higher up then Oishi.

He's an overall minor character.
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Old 2006-09-28, 17:47   Link #70
Malintex_Terek
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlunae
The problem with a supernatural "plot device" is that it destroys the entertainment of this series as a mystery, which is what made it interesting in the first place. There are, I believe, a lot of people who were sitting at home trying to find a way to reconcile the scattered and sometimes contradictory information we are given, with some degree of success. But now, why bother trying to explain why Keiichi could kill people with his thought? Because of the supernatural element, it can just be magic, and no further explanation is needed. Same with Takano holding conversations with people after she was supposed to have died.

It would be different if the supernatural elements were well defined from the beginning, but they aren't even well defined now, and we just were definitively told that the supernatural element is there in episode 25 for the first time (I firmly believe that prior to that point, all elements could have been explained rationally). It just cheapens the whole thing.

All in all, this series has been an entertaining distraction, so in that sense it works. But if the point of the anime was to sell the sound novels, it failed, at least in my case, because now I don't care about any explanations that could be offered.
You didn't get what I was trying to explain; the "supernatural" element in this is just information and how Rika obtained said information. She's been living in multiple realities and she's retained some information from each one; even then, most of her attempts to apply what she knows has failed. Aside from this, there is a logical explanation for everything else that is going on in Himinazawa. How does that "cheapen" the story in any way?
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Old 2006-09-28, 18:26   Link #71
TougeSil80
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A couple questions.
Spoiler for EP.26:
__________________
So long.
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Old 2006-09-29, 00:19   Link #72
LostBlue
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SoCal
Quote:
Originally Posted by TougeSil80
A couple questions.
Spoiler for EP.26:
Quote:
why Oyashiro has to kill Rika everytime
You're on the wrong track. What did Rika-chama say about Oyashiro-sama? Oyashiro-sama is a kind and loving god. Oyashiro-sama is the god of good relations even mending the relations between Civlization & Demons instead of erradicating them. But in short, Rika doesn't know why she's being killed nor does she remember the last moments of her life. She just wakes up again, at a certain pt in her life, knowing it will end in June 1983.

Anywho, I finally saw the EP. I liked it overall. I'll give it an 8.
Missed the Keiichi's Victory declartion and Rena's secret confession but I can understand why it was skipped. Oishi calling out Rika seemed really odd and out of character tho.
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Old 2006-09-29, 00:49   Link #73
rexlunae
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
You didn't get what I was trying to explain; the "supernatural" element in this is just information and how Rika obtained said information. She's been living in multiple realities and she's retained some information from each one; even then, most of her attempts to apply what she knows has failed. Aside from this, there is a logical explanation for everything else that is going on in Himinazawa. How does that "cheapen" the story in any way?
I understood you just fine. I don't know where you get the information that this is the one-and-only supernatural element, if you've played the game or whatever, but from the perspective of someone who is still going through the story, there is no way to know that at this point, and it's cheating to ask someone who's finished. The only way to know that is to go through the whole story, and once you've done that, there's no mystery left.

Having a supernatural element degrades Higurashi from a mystery to try to solve to just a story that follows only the convenience of the author. Because he resorted to a cop-out to explain one mystery, there could just as easily be another cop-out for the next mystery. The only way to really have a good mystery with supernatural elements is for those elements to be well-defined early on so the author can't pull a trick like this one. If this one element was introduced in Onikakushi-hen, I don't think it would spoil the whole mystery.

To those who are saying this isn't supposed to be a mystery, I can't even begin to imagine how that can be true. If it's not a mystery, why is it presented this way, divided into chapters that ask 'questions' and those that present 'answers'? And don't the closing lines of Onikakushi-hen seem to be setting up a mystery? "To whomever reading this, please uncover the truth."

Anyway, time to stop ranting, at least for me. If you enjoyed it, great. If, like me, you feel this is an unfortunate turn, you have my sympathy. But I still enjoyed it, up to episode 24, so overall, I can't complain too much.
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Old 2006-09-29, 01:57   Link #74
sagematt
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostBlue
Ahh, how can I redeem myself here...

D = Disappointing
E = Entertainment
A = Administrator for the people that weren't
N = Non-gamers?

Doujin Visual Novel Adaptators
Extremely and
Astoundingly
Noobish

...Nah, you win

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostBlue
Actually, I think KJ and Sushi-Y translate better than me. I'm still quite a bit inexperienced as this was my first TL project along with Zero.
Your job was superb. There is no blood in it

*ahem*
By the way, do they get laid in the end after all? I think someone did mention something about it before (maybe kj or Sushi, can't remember). Sorry to sound like such an ero freak, it's just that the comment sparked my interest.
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Old 2006-09-29, 01:59   Link #75
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagematt
By the way, do they get laid in the end after all? I think someone did mention something about it before (maybe kj or Sushi, can't remember). Sorry to sound like such an ero freak, it's just that the comment sparked my interest.
Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.
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Old 2006-09-29, 02:01   Link #76
MarthX
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.
I recently learned that it shows Satoko naked.

It definitely caught me by surprise.
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Old 2006-09-29, 02:06   Link #77
kj1980
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarthX
I recently learned that it shows Satoko naked.

It definitely caught me by surprise.
That's the scene where she was taken out from the hot bathtub (anime Ep. 13).
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Old 2006-09-29, 02:31   Link #78
sagematt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.
*tries hard to remember the related post*

Oh, it actually said something like this "AFAIK this is the only arc where Keiichi and Rena got _____".

I guess my ero-autopilot mode got ignited and automagically filled the blank. Sorry about that
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Old 2006-09-29, 03:33   Link #79
Sushi-Y
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagematt
*tries hard to remember the related post*

Oh, it actually said something like this "AFAIK this is the only arc where Keiichi and Rena got _____".

I guess my ero-autopilot mode got ignited and automagically filled the blank. Sorry about that
That was me.

What I meant to say was that Tsumihoroboshi-hen was the only chapter where Rena and Keiichi actually showed some romantic interest in each other. In the other scenarios, the developments simply didn't give them the chance to create or express that feeling (well, Rena practically gave up her life to Keiichi in Onikakushi-hen, which probably means something).

Really, a lot of things in this series is up to your imagination, depending on your alignment (KeiichixRena, KeiichixMion, etc.) and interpretation, you can easily pick up signs of love here and there.
__________________
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Old 2006-09-29, 04:11   Link #80
Thisguy
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
What I meant to say was that Tsumihoroboshi-hen was the only chapter where Rena and Keiichi actually showed some romantic interest in each other.
Not exactly from in-series, but I think you've seen one of ending from Daybreak...
That was really embarassing to watch, and I wouldn't be suprised if they went to Rena's hideout togather afterward
(While Daybreak is likely to be an non-related side story, it's Ryu-chan that wrote the script. that means something.)
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