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Old 2006-10-02, 16:35   Link #2061
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
"of course I had the story and dramatics in mind, but I chose their sex mostly on my tastes. Like Morinas has such a good body, it would have been such a waste for her to become male"
But that didn't stop him from turning Vyura (a.k.a. "I could be a supermodel if I wanted to") into a man. Bastard.
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Old 2006-10-02, 18:46   Link #2062
fignae
floofer. floof.
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
LOL, Wowo. Right. ("Shaddup, creator. We're having fun here." )

Anyway, if anyone has heard of this


I'm glad to announce that even though it's a limited edition disc, the specials are quite stupid. Most of the seiyuu were awkward placed in front of the camera, and only Mizuki Nana really shone. In terms of attitude, that is, as for information, I couldn't catch any after all the courtesies paid.

[edit] Contents:
PS2 game CM
DVD CM
Cut scenes from the seiyuu studio messages
Seiyuu comment on the show (not much)

Last edited by fignae; 2006-10-02 at 23:53.
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Old 2006-10-02, 19:07   Link #2063
Simon
気持ち悪い
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by fignae
I'm glad to announce that even though it's a limited edition disc, the specials are quite stupid.
Well it is from Megami, the magazine that people like me love to bitch about despite buying it for the Simoun content

Those discs are selling pretty well on YJ at the moment: I snaffled one for Y1000 early on, but they're averaging around three times that now (makes me feel less of a mug for paying Y2400 for a game poster - if I'd waited I could have got one for way less, but then waiting is exactly how I missed out on the poster for the TV series). It's nice to see collectors taking an interest, even for a cheesy promo item.

Last edited by Simon; 2006-10-02 at 20:27.
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Old 2006-10-02, 19:10   Link #2064
Conri
...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I hope I didn't come across as anti-SP. I don't draw fanart or make GIFs or intend to buy a DVD of a series that I didn't enjoy. I'd defend liking it, if needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka
I wouldn't make comparisons with Haibane Renmei. To put it as Kaoru Chujo did (in his case about SP, not HR): "to compare it with Simoun is laughable", albeit with the reasons reversed.
On comparing Strawberry Panic to Simoun to Haibane Renmei: I don't think comparing any two shows is laughable. Really, every show has at least one thing in common: the desire to hold the viewers attention. For the latter two, I think Simoun would have suffered from being confined to the earthly tones of Haibane Renmei. The vibrancy mixed with the serious subjects created a unique atmosphere for me. The similarities have nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with themes. For better or worse, we lose things...we have to let them go and move on. It is a mistake if we try to hold on, striving to achieve the impossible task of staying the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka
And indeed, if you do swallow the bait, you will very likely end up defending Simoun, because you will have invested yourself into sorting out its mixed bag. Me, I don't like to be manipulated like that.
Welcome to the world of fiction--manipulation. Anyway, Simoun worked for me because characters are my number one priority in fiction. The plot that initially seemed to be overwhelmingly complex, was merely a backdrop. I may have started out thinking I was holding an extremely "mixed" bag, but that's not what I ended up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka
For all the supposedly "overt yuri" in SP, I actually found it a lot harder to ignore the sexual aspect in Simoun than in SP. The uniforms in SP are pretty subdued, whereas in Simoun the sibyllas' clothing is anything but.
.....
Apparently some of you were able to ignore all that
Sexualization in Strawberry Panic and Simoun:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Well, I was afraid that Aaeru was going to be like Arika from Mai-Otome (a character whom I hate with a passion) and she ended as one of my favourite anime characters ever so I guess she has suprised pleasantly quite a lot of viewers.
Yes! Arika is a much better example than the character that first sprung to mind (I-learned-Bankai-in-three-days Ichigo). As to Amuria, I didn't see enough of her to make any judgements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wowo
Lol, this week's Simoun radio is hilarious, check it out if you can understand Japanese.
Guest this week was
:drumroll:

Director Nishimura Junji!
Hehe, always nice to hear from people who don't take themselves so seriously.
======

Simon: Thank you for the info; I already see some interesting auctions on YJ.
===========

fignae: I was wondering what that disc was about since I keep seeing it pop up...
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Old 2006-10-02, 19:19   Link #2065
Simon
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conri
I already see some interesting auctions on YJ.
Remember, I disclaim all responsibility for what those links do to your credit card

Quote:
I was wondering what that disc was about since I keep seeing it pop up...
There's also some info about it on Wikipedia (which may need editing since it was written without actually seeing the DVD).
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Old 2006-10-02, 20:35   Link #2066
Conri
...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon
Remember, I disclaim all responsibility for what those links do to your credit card
Don't worry, I'm a cel collector. The damage has already been done. Thanks for the Wiki link.
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Old 2006-10-03, 11:07   Link #2067
Yaya-chan
NHK desu.
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Between Japan and Mid-Childa
Simoun takes the world.

Simoun Cry
Simoun AMV
Alas de Simoun
Corazon de Simoun

Congrats to Danigc
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Old 2006-10-03, 11:24   Link #2068
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
If Simoun was so hell bent of fanserivice it would have shown a lot more of the night Alti and Kaimu spent together, for example. So basically you can remove all the romantic elements from Simoun, make the characters wear clothes that cover their whole bodies and still have most of the plot intact with some alterations. While if you remove the fanservice and romantic affairs from SP you are left with nothing at all.
Quoted for being a really insightful point.
At what point does "fanservice" become a crutch instead of gloss? I think Simoun is a great example of using fanservice as a gloss for a show that would still be great without it.
I don't quite agree that the romantic elements were part of the fanservice, or that they could be removed without damaging the story, but everything else is good.
And I never even thought of comparing SP with Simoun until people around here started doing it. Frankly, I don't even consider Simoun yuri since the people aren't technically female until they go to the Spring and choose to be so. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion, though.
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Old 2006-10-03, 15:46   Link #2069
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
I don't quite agree that the romantic elements were part of the fanservice, or that they could be removed without damaging the story, but everything else is good.
The removal would damage the story but it wouldn't ruin it, that's what I meant. And I consider the female romantic relationships as some sort of fanservice because yuri is getting more and more popular which could have justisfied deciding everyone to be female rather than androgynous for the sake of getting yuri fans hooked. In the case of SP I consider the relationships fanservisish simply because of their nature which seemed to me a lot more in line with how fans imagine them in their fantasies rather than anything close to reality. Nevertheless, if it was executed better I wouldn't have really minded such relationships. Anyway, I notice I am rambling about the possible interpretations of the word fanservice which is too broad of a topic so I will just stop here.
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Old 2006-10-03, 18:51   Link #2070
yononaka
nani ni tatoemu
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Thanks for the responses, guys. However, they convinced me of what I already felt after having written up my previous post: that despite fignae calling what I said "relatively well-articulated" (thanks ), it really wasn't. I think it actually created a rather distorted picture of my reasons. Well, I'll have to see if I can organize my thoughts a bit better and do a retry. I'm not sure I'll get to it, though; because in a lot of ways it would be a waste of time. I don't mean that in the "I'll never convince you fools anyway" sense , it's just that with the new season starting there are going to be lots of more appealing things competing for my attention than sorting out why I didn't enjoy something. I guess we'll see how it goes.
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Old 2006-10-03, 21:59   Link #2071
Conri
...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Thanks for the responses, guys. However, they convinced me of what I already felt after having written up my previous post: that despite fignae calling what I said "relatively well-articulated" (thanks ), it really wasn't.
I thought it was well written, too (and as I said, it made me think!), but feel that way about my own posts... I was hesitant to post my last long post because it felt like a jumbled, nonsensical mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy
Frankly, I don't even consider Simoun yuri since the people aren't technically female until they go to the Spring and choose to be so. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion, though.
I'm in your minority as well. Although people who have not been to the spring are referred to as "girls," the term means something quite different in the world of Simoun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim
The removal would damage the story but it wouldn't ruin it, that's what I meant. And I consider the female romantic relationships as some sort of fanservice because yuri is getting more and more popular which could have justisfied deciding everyone to be female rather than androgynous for the sake of getting yuri fans hooked.
It's still more of a niche fanservice especially compared to the giant het fanservice market and the more general "bunch of cute girls in one show" (often harem) fanservice market. You're definitely right about the broad meaning of fanservice... Liking female/female romance and gender bending doesn't seem much different than when I gravitate towards something because it has great comedy.

And you're right about the conscious choice for the characters to look female instead of inbetween. While it might make some sense considering fetal development, it makes more sense on the level of thinking--how many people would want to watch a show about people of indeterminate gender? (besides me, I mean) Given the anime style, androgyny tends towards the boyish; so it might even look a bit like boyslove...while some fangirls might be pleased, that was obviously not the type of show the creators wanted ("about young girls growing up").

I'm happy they went the route they did for two reasons...
1) When it comes to fiction, I have an easier time enjoying works with well developed female characters. When it comes to all female versus all male, I'll watch the former first. I watched the first half of Gravitation, enjoyed the first half of Kyou Kara Maou, but never finished either. On the other hand, I inexplicably made it through all of Gokujou Seitoukai.
2) Floef or Vyuraf could be me. The process in Simoun mirrors what I've been through far more than a textbook female-to-male case. Obviously, I don't get to see this part of me in fiction much.
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Old 2006-10-03, 22:27   Link #2072
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conri
I'm in your minority as well. Although people who have not been to the spring are referred to as "girls," the term means something quite different in the world of Simoun.
Well, hooray for us, then. I always seem to be in the minority (Kyonism, too), so it's good to find some company down here
Most of my reasoning on this comes from the fact that post-choice same-sex relationships are not look kindly upon in Simulacrum (at least, that's what I gathered). So, it's okay for the pre-choice people to be in relationships because they're technically neither sex. I think we also agreed (with pretty much no basis, mind you) that girls are infertile before going to the Spring.

Quote:
And you're right about the conscious choice for the characters to look female instead of inbetween. While it might make some sense considering fetal development, it makes more sense on the level of thinking--how many people would want to watch a show about people of indeterminate gender? (besides me, I mean) Given the anime style, androgyny tends towards the boyish; so it might even look a bit like boyslove...while some fangirls might be pleased, that was obviously not the type of show the creators wanted ("about young girls growing up").
Not only that, but the suspension of disbelief for this show is already paper-thin. Making all the main characters truly androgenous might be a little too much. We need to be able to find something familiar, you know
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Old 2006-10-04, 00:59   Link #2073
Conri
...
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy
Well, hooray for us, then. I always seem to be in the minority (Kyonism, too), so it's good to find some company down here
Yay! *rolls out a futon in minority-space and sprawls on it* I'd have to get back to you on Kyonism; Haruhi is on my list of series to catch up with.

Quote:
Most of my reasoning on this comes from the fact that post-choice same-sex relationships are not look kindly upon in Simulacrum (at least, that's what I gathered). So, it's okay for the pre-choice people to be in relationships because they're technically neither sex. I think we also agreed (with pretty much no basis, mind you) that girls are infertile before going to the Spring.
Hey, I think there's some basis. If pre-choice girls were fertile, there'd be no physical difference between them and women...so then, why would they have to go to the spring unless they wanted to become men? Why would they start flaking (physical symptom?) if they avoided making a choice?

Quote:
Not only that, but the suspension of disbelief for this show is already paper-thin. Making all the main characters truly androgenous might be a little too much. We need to be able to find something familiar, you know
That's exactly it...what I think I was trying to get at in much better wording.
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Old 2006-10-05, 07:40   Link #2074
Yui from Okinawa
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Okinawa / Ryukyu mainland near the Taipei
Age: 44
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Simile Simoun production (inter mission report)

Simile Simoun production (inter mission report)
My friends (male) report reprint from ...

Edit :image size changed.....(pixel 1024x 996 half to pixel 602x498)


Last edited by Yui from Okinawa; 2006-10-06 at 11:22.
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Old 2006-10-06, 05:06   Link #2075
Yui from Okinawa
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Nevirif and his wife Aael who got pregnant?

Nevirif and his wife Aael who got pregnant??

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Old 2006-10-06, 09:18   Link #2076
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
... D:
Frankly, I find a male Neviril to be somewhat... weird. I mean, I guess it works, but... pink hair... and those eyes...

Still, saved.
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Old 2006-10-06, 11:02   Link #2077
ZeusIrae
Loyal Haruhist.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Age: 27
Quote:
yononaka"What that tells me is that the fabled "greatness" of Simoun is the product of the fans filling the gaps with their imagination, not of the creators doing anything exeptional."
I see what you mean there,there's a lot of shows that I like not because they are good but because of their concepts.
ex:I honestly think gundam wing sucks but I like it anyway because I like the concept of an epic war with shifting alliance and great ideals.
There's some flaws in Simoun's development.I think the eps 15-20 were weak.
But the end and more precisely the concept that are devloped are very intresting.

Think about Onashia,she deserves an anime just for her.How many priestees did she saw?How many tragedies?How many happy moments?What did she thougt of this?Guarding the spring for years,perhaps centuries(if we accept she's Dominura).



Ah, well....i talk.But I really feel empty.I just watched ep26 a few hours ago(wowo is a god,thank you wowo) and I feel empty and nostalgic.That's the second time in less than a month,the other time was the end of H&C II.

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-10-06, 12:24   Link #2078
Kaoru Chujo
Minase Inori
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Oh, Yui, thank you. I'm glad it wasn't really sayonara. That illustration works for me. I have no trouble at all imagining a male Neviril. I think that could well have been her decision, if things had gone differently. From Sibylla Aurea to Deputy Chairman. Her father probably made some kind of similar journey. And Aaeru I can imagine remaining female, for sure, even if she has always seemed so "boyish."

I enjoyed ZeusIrae's post, although I disagree with him about the weakness of episodes in the 15-20 range. When wowo mentioned something along those lines, I went back and watched 17, 19 and 20 and was totally and completely blown away. Watching them in full knowledge of the ending was overwhelming.

It is true that some things were hard to understand at early viewings, so you could say there were problems with direction and/or storyboard. But the essence of the episodes is at least as strong as others, for me. This is an exaggerated comparison, perhaps, but it is like going back and reading Hamlet: it was pretty hard to understand when I first read it, but every time I read it now it just gets richer.

And of course I understood yononaka's point about the fans filling in things that weren't there. We added something to the mix. But we built on a rich foundation that really was there, and that people who were put off by the surface of the piece were unable to see. I don't see that foundation as just having to do with concepts. These characters were deep and rich and present as people in ways I don't see in many other animes. Perhaps the bizarre context made that more possible, paradoxically.

I am spending my time with this season's new shows right now, and there is nothing here yet that compares in the slightest way with Simoun, Honey & Clover, or Nana, or even Bokura ga Ita, for human depth and human feeling. There is perhaps some hope for Red Garden. And I look forward to seeing Hataraki-man next week. And I am a sucker for the melancholy romance -- and godly animation -- of Kanon. And the bizarre humor of Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge is intriguing. And I enjoyed the first episode of Ghost Hunt, with Nazuka Kaori (Yun); and the first ep of the crazed comedy Mamoru-kun, with Takahashi Mikako (Rodoreamon). Kin-iro no Cord seems a potentially enjoyable combination of romantic comedy with classical music. Marginal Prince is the animation of a keitai love-sim game for girls, and has some human feeling in it, along with cheese. Happiness makes an abject romantic like me feel, well, happy. And Negima is, so far, a triumph of interesting animation.

EDIT: There's no question the drawing is not the Aer and Neviril in the anime. But I can see them as the Aer and Neviril from another timeline. And in a few years.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-10-06 at 16:07.
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Old 2006-10-06, 12:57   Link #2079
fignae
floofer. floof.
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
I'd hesitate to include anime Nana in that list (I loved the manga first), and I haven't seen H&C (the second season's OP was my worst nightmare made flesh), but yes, I haven't seen anything that I think could live up to the beauty of Simoun. There's a clarity and grace here that can only be matched by darkness and brutality elsewhere.

Code Geass was fairly fun for me, in addition to some of the abovementioned. I think it's the one with the most Simoun seiyuu. I think I went around half-mad hearing shades of Simoun everywhere. Nazuka Kaori is in a lot of series this new season. Definitely seconding the Red Garden rec.

And yes, I find the picture disturbing too. Ahem.
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Old 2006-10-06, 13:20   Link #2080
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
The picture is disturbing mostly because it does not have much to do with the development in the anime. And Aaeru looks too much like a housewife who leaves her home once a month, I just can't help but picture her as a very active person even when pregnant.

Episodes 15-17 are great, 18-20 not that great. I am curious to see whether my opinion will change after rewatching them.

From what you are saying I guess I am not missing much by having watched thus far a grand total of one episode from the new season.
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