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Old 2006-10-15, 16:25   Link #21
DryFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambda View Post
I remember when people were arguing that we had to progress to h264, upgrading insufficiently powerful computers where necessary, so fansubbers could produce smaller files and save bandwidth.
The filesize need for a certain level of quality will almost always be lesser with h264 then with xvid (things get interesting at really high bitrates).

I've used filesizes ranging from 114MB to 350MB for 24 min eps.
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Old 2006-10-15, 16:33   Link #22
Arimfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunboat Diplomat View Post
It just seems funny to me that a more powerful codec would be used to make a larger movie file. Sort of like a more powerful engine being used to make a slower car...
From some of your previous posts it seems you understand that higher filsize can allow higher quality. But then why is it you keep trolling with this "big files=bad" attitude?

Higher quality does not equal slower car, in any way.
H264 can help for higher quality.
Bigger filesize can help for higher quality.

You know there exist people who want to keep the fansub scene forever chained at a certain quality level as to not allow fansubs to rival DVDs. But then there are also people who wants to release fansubs at highest possible quality. For the sake of promoting the series and its creators or for the sake of their groups image or for their own satisfaction or for the sake of fansub downloaders...etc. Whatever reason they may have for wanting higher quality, why can't you just accept that?
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Old 2006-10-15, 17:28   Link #23
Gunboat Diplomat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arimfe View Post
From some of your previous posts it seems you understand that higher filsize can allow higher quality. But then why is it you keep trolling with this "big files=bad" attitude?
I don't think a desire for smaller files constitutes "trolling." What have I said, exactly, that was inflammatory?

I think you may be reacting a little too strongly to this thread. I haven't yelled at anyone nor have I gone out of my way to insult anyone. I'm hardly ranting and I'm not launching any kind of accusations or judgement on anyone. I disagree with a decision that some people have made. Disagreement is not trolling.

Ultimately, we all want smaller files. If we want bigger files, it's only because we want something out of it, like higher quality images. However, I think we can all agree that smaller file sizes are better. For instance, if you have two movies that appear to be of equal quality but one was smaller than the other, wouldn't you take the smaller one? What if making the file bigger didn't add any noticeable quality? Would you still want bigger file? Obviously anime encodes aren't anywhere near this but I think the desire for smaller files is understandable...

Quote:
Higher quality does not equal slower car, in any way.
h.264 is analogous to the "more powerful engine" and the "slower" car is analogous to a larger file. It was hyperbole. You can let it go...

Quote:
H264 can help for higher quality.
Bigger filesize can help for higher quality.

You know there exist people who want to keep the fansub scene forever chained at a certain quality level as to not allow fansubs to rival DVDs. But then there are also people who wants to release fansubs at highest possible quality. For the sake of promoting the series and its creators or for the sake of their groups image or for their own satisfaction or for the sake of fansub downloaders...etc. Whatever reason they may have for wanting higher quality, why can't you just accept that?
Well, it depends on what you mean by "accept." I accept that they're doing it but I disagree with the decision. Are you asking why I don't just arbitrarily agree and be happy with whatever decision is made? Maybe because I'm not Britney Spears?
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Old 2006-10-15, 17:34   Link #24
Mr_Paper
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Perhaps it is just me, but the topic starter, in my opinion at least, does not seem to want or is anyway concerned about the 'higher quality' people are trying to force down their throat. Nor does it seem that they care much about whether people want their releases to be DVD quality or not, rather, it would seem they are more concerned with being able to download the greatest number of episodes at decent quality on a possibly limited connection (a feat +233mb releases do nothing to aid).

But maybe that's just me...
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Old 2006-10-15, 17:45   Link #25
emptyeighty
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I'm all for best quality. Download times don't concern me. Go quality groups :-)
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Old 2006-10-15, 17:54   Link #26
Starks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptyeighty View Post
I'm all for best quality. Download times don't concern me. Go quality groups :-)
Considering I have a 10Mbit symmetrical connection and more than 300GB of storage, I don't give a shit about filesize or download time.
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Old 2006-10-15, 18:04   Link #27
Gunboat Diplomat
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Originally Posted by Starks View Post
Considering I have a 10Mbit symmetrical connection and more than 300GB of storage, I don't give a shit about filesize or download time.
Considering I have a 12" dick, I don't give a shit about image quality...


/meant to be funny...
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Old 2006-10-15, 18:08   Link #28
ffdshow
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I can say that my x264 encodes are big because of newbieness, although it's higher resolution as well.

I think this is a little price to get less ugly encodes.

If I use normal resolution than it will be smaller, probably 140MB-170MB. However, if it is similar quality, I may drop the x264 version for faster release or easier seeding.
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Old 2006-10-15, 18:27   Link #29
Bot1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunboat Diplomat View Post
Ultimately, we all want smaller files. If we want bigger files, it's only because we want something out of it, like higher quality images. However, I think we can all agree that smaller file sizes are better. For instance, if you have two movies that appear to be of equal quality but one was smaller than the other, wouldn't you take the smaller one? What if making the file bigger didn't add any noticeable quality? Would you still want bigger file? Obviously anime encodes aren't anywhere near this but I think the desire for smaller files is understandable...
i really think that you put that we there too easily. its fine that you have an opinion but don't think that we all want smallers filesizes just because you do.

Alsothe argument that h264 needs a fast system to be decoded is old and outdated i really with people would just drop it.
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:13   Link #30
Gunboat Diplomat
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Originally Posted by Bot1 View Post
i really think that you put that we there too easily. its fine that you have an opinion but don't think that we all want smallers filesizes just because you do.
If you read my post in context, you will see that I use the word "we" quite fairly. In the same way we all want to be happy (what most will consider a fair assumption), we all want smaller file sizes. Some of us care more about image quality, and I've acknowledged that, but as I have pointed out, all other things being equal, we'd prefer the smaller file size. That's the context that you're missing...

If you want a larger file size with no gain associated with it, that's just out of some bizarre personal neurosis...

Quote:
Alsothe argument that h264 needs a fast system to be decoded is old and outdated i really with people would just drop it.
While I generally agree with your claim here, I should point out that even my P4 3.0GHz system can't decode HD h.264 properly...

However, almost everyone can decode SD h.264...
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:20   Link #31
Farix
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To me, the file size is a very huge factor into which version I download. I would love to switch to AVC, and even did for the short time there was a Kiba AVC encoding. However, I've stuck with XviD encodings for the fansubs I download only because it is the smaller file. If there was an AVC file of similar or smaller size, I would be all over it like ants at a picnic. But then, I've been told to "go to hell", though not in those words, by some encoders for speaking my mind on this before and I am getting tired to the attitude that quality is more important the file size.
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:22   Link #32
Bot1
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well i still think that you are wrong. out of two movies with the same quality but different filesize i'd get the one that was seeded the best since filesize means nothing to me what so ever.

also i know for a fact that an athlon 2200+ (whice in most cases would be slower then a 3 ghz p4) can decode 720p with coreavc
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:25   Link #33
Eeknay
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If your P4 3.0Ghz can't decode a 720p h264 fansub, there's something wrong with your configuration.

I've always found it funny that people guaff and choke at a 233MB encode, though. Hell, even 350MB.
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:37   Link #34
Farix
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Originally Posted by Eeknay View Post
I've always found it funny that people guaff and choke at a 233MB encode, though. Hell, even 350MB.
Don't blame us for the sorry state of broadband availability in the US and that half of US internet surfers are stuck with "narrowband" (according the to Broadband Reality Check II).
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:52   Link #35
DryFire
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Originally Posted by Mr_Paper View Post
Perhaps it is just me, but the topic starter, in my opinion at least, does not seem to want or is anyway concerned about the 'higher quality' people are trying to force down their throat. Nor does it seem that they care much about whether people want their releases to be DVD quality or not, rather, it would seem they are more concerned with being able to download the greatest number of episodes at decent quality on a possibly limited connection (a feat +233mb releases do nothing to aid).
Then he should be mad at the people chosing to go with a 233mb xvid encode as opposed to a smaller h264 encode (or just at people using xvid, old audio codecs and containers in general).
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:57   Link #36
Harukalover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunboat Diplomat View Post
If you want a larger file size with no gain associated with it, that's just out of some bizarre personal neurosis...
/me wonders when somebody asked for large filesizes with no gain...?

Anyway as I said before. I always aim for best quality in my H264 encode. If I don't do a dual release (XviD encode as well) then I try to aim for a middle ground for quality and size.

Only reason my H264 encode would be smaller then a XviD encode I do would be because the show easily compresses.

And so far I see no reason to change that just because two people want smaller files.
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Old 2006-10-15, 19:59   Link #37
Eeknay
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These good for nothing encoders with their lawy- uhh encoder talk and fancy suits, and "higher quality"!
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Old 2006-10-15, 20:15   Link #38
Farix
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My main point is that there are more then just technological luddites that continue to download the XviD encodings over the AVC encodings. I'm sure that most encoders would love to drop XviD onto the ash heap of history, but creating larger AVC encodings is ultimately counterproductive to that dream.
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Old 2006-10-15, 20:31   Link #39
DryFire
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Originally Posted by Farix View Post
I'm sure that most encoders would love to drop XviD onto the ash heap of history, but creating larger AVC encodings is ultimately counterproductive to that dream.
As far as releases are concerned, I already did; a few groups seem to be doing the same.

You don't have to make the files larger, but some people prefer to. I believ most encoders want to be be able to watch their encodes and not have their eyes bleed, the other 90% of people is really a non-issue.
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Old 2006-10-15, 20:40   Link #40
Gunboat Diplomat
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Originally Posted by Bot1 View Post
also i know for a fact that an athlon 2200+ (whice in most cases would be slower then a 3 ghz p4) can decode 720p with coreavc
I thought I had an example of 720p h.264 lying around here but I can't find it at the moment. I do have some 1080p h.264 content and my system most certainly chokes on it. I could have sworn that I also tried a 720p h.264 source and was surprised to see my system choke on that, too...

CoreAVC is an advanced multi-threaded h.264 codec which is not freely available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeknay View Post
If your P4 3.0Ghz can't decode a 720p h264 fansub, there's something wrong with your configuration.
I've considered this but I can't imagine what that misconfiguration might be. My processor is running at full speed, the memory is running at full speed, the hard drive is obviously not the bottle-neck...

My system can play 1080p WMVs just fine...
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