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Old 2006-10-31, 08:08   Link #41
Zoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ^_Usagi_^ View Post
they could have fallen out of grace for various reasons... but this seems like a possible development (I still don't belive what somebody above said that Isshin is just a normal human & got his powers in some similar way as Ichigo). Does anyone know when the Shiba's have fallen out of grace?
It's never been said, but it probably happened before Kaien died. And whatever it was, it had to have been a lot worse than what Yoruichi did, because the Shihouin family is still one of the top nobles.
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Old 2006-10-31, 08:18   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ^_Usagi_^;
I actually like the theory of Isshin being the King, but it sound sooooo unreal, cause then Ichi would be a prince, .
Nope you got NSW Theory Mixed up . Well According to it Isshin is the descedant of SS King not SS King . Hence Ichi's over abundant Leatsu . Also Isshin is too Weak to be SS King

Quote:
they could have fallen out of grace for various reasons... but this seems like a possible development (I still don't belive what somebody above said that Isshin is just a normal human & got his powers in some similar way as Ichigo). Does anyone know when the Shiba's have fallen out of grace?

IMHO the main co -inspirators in Ura's escape were Isshin , Kukkaku and Yoru . All of them payed a price for their Betrayal of Sendai no Gotei . Isshin and Yoru were banished , while Shiba family fell from Grace and were exiled to Ryukognai .

If you do remember Kukkaku adresses Yoru as Ura's freind . She says How can I say no to Ura's Freinds
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Old 2006-10-31, 09:03   Link #43
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1st - What is IMHO?
2nd -
Quote:
Also Isshin is too Weak to be SS King
how do we know how strong the king should be? It was said that he does not "medle" (a bit too harshly said) in SS political* afairs, so he might not even fight as well.
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Old 2006-10-31, 10:04   Link #44
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The Royal Gaurd itself outrank Yamaji in terms of power and heirarachy . Aizen needs to become a Vizard to dethrone SS King . So SS King > Aizen (Shinigami) . You think Isshin is stronger than Aizen

In My Humble Opinion
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Old 2006-10-31, 10:59   Link #45
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]The Royal Gaurd itself outrank Yamaji in terms of power and heirarachy
That has never been stated.
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Old 2006-10-31, 11:06   Link #46
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That has never been stated.


Also they are solely responsible for protecting SS King not Sendai no Gotei but Royal Gaurds
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Old 2006-10-31, 11:14   Link #47
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That shows they're of a different branch, not that they outrank anybody.
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Old 2006-10-31, 11:19   Link #48
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Central 46 governing Body of Sendai no Gotei ( 13 Squads ). Royal Gaurd have the same rank as Chamber 46 . So how dont they OutrankIt was the same chamber 46 which Aizen murdered and gave comands on their behalf . He controlled Sendai no Gotei acting as a Proxy Chamber 46 . In the Hierarchy Diagram Royal Gaurds occupy same postion as Chmaber 46

Refer : SS King
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Old 2006-10-31, 12:20   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Central 46 governing Body of Sendai no Gotei ( 13 Squads ). Royal Gaurd have the same rank as Chamber 46 . So how dont they OutrankIt was the same chamber 46 which Aizen murdered and gave comands on their behalf . He controlled Sendai no Gotei acting as a Proxy Chamber 46 . In the Hierarchy Diagram Royal Gaurds occupy same postion as Chmaber 46
You don't have much experience with organizational charts, do you.

A project manager reports directly to executives. Does that mean he outranks team leads and developers? Of course not! It's a different branch.
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Old 2006-10-31, 16:21   Link #50
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But since we are talking about the king:What about Kon? What is his role in the story? After all Isshin came out of his hiding just to save him. Anyone ever thought of why he did this? He shouldn't really come out for just another useless Modsoul and the body also isn't very important. Therefore I think Kon could be a more important charactre than we may think at this time.
Could be an intresting observation .. But most probably Kon the Kaizo Konpakku was in Ichigo's Body . So Isshin came to save his son's body ?

Also their is the Grand Fischer/Fischer angle could it not be Kon happened to be there
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Old 2006-10-31, 16:39   Link #51
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...and we know, that Orihime got her power from Ichigo, therefore Ichigo's power should be even greater than that...
I am not sure whether this is actually the truth or not. Both Orihime and Chad awakened their powers when Ichigo is absent, also if that would be the case, then everyone around Ichigo should be capable of awakening those powers, cause Ichigo did nothing for them specifically. And if everyone around Ichigo should be capable of gaining such powers, then, logically, everyone in the human world should be capable of gaining powers like that. And if that is the case, Ichigo being there does not really matter, does it? Cause, that means everyone has a dormant power like that regardless of Ichigo's location or relationship to them.
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Old 2006-10-31, 16:49   Link #52
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He shouldn't really come out for just another useless Modsoul and the body also isn't very important
I agree with the Hat person.
maybe the modsoul is useless, but its HIS SON's human body. though he could just use a gigai... which is weird....
what is the dif between a gigai & a real body? oh right,... unknown again *smacks against the keyboard*
If your body is destroyed you can just continue having your soul put in a diferent "shell"...
but since Isshin saved Kon possibilities are:
1. maybe the upper-upper person has a point 2 & Kon is important
2. he wanted to save the body of Ichi, so I can assume in its own way that even urahara's untracable gigai is not better than the real thing. ( what was the point again?)
3. he just felt like being a dad for once & wanted to save his kid's friend since nobody would be able to do it that that time (Ichi busy with Shinji)
4. wanted to get revenge on the Grand Fisher for killing his wife.

my basic posibilities, are more, since they never end anyway.


Question: In the chapter # which I forgot again Isshin is talking with Ryuken (sp? - Ishida's dad), & Ryuken says something like atleast I intend on continuing being a father (if somebody finds the exact quote please correct me, I don't have the manga now).
What do you imply it means?
Is he going away? Is he planning to die (sacrifacing)? Also if anyone read a different translation of that line please give it. (maybe chapter 188 or close? I don't remember where this is happening)
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Old 2006-10-31, 17:21   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ^_Usagi_^ View Post
Question: In the chapter # which I forgot again Isshin is talking with Ryuken (sp? - Ishida's dad), & Ryuken says something like atleast I intend on continuing being a father (if somebody finds the exact quote please correct me, I don't have the manga now).
What do you imply it means?
Is he going away? Is he planning to die (sacrifacing)? Also if anyone read a different translation of that line please give it. (maybe chapter 188 or close? I don't remember where this is happening)
Ryuuken says that he's a better father than Isshin, and Isshin agrees. Given their conversation prior to that, I took it to mean that Ryuuken allowed his son to choose his own path whereas Isshin has been "forcing" (so to speak) Ichigo into becoming a Shinigami.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
I am not sure whether this is actually the truth or not. Both Orihime and Chad awakened their powers when Ichigo is absent, also if that would be the case, then everyone around Ichigo should be capable of awakening those powers, cause Ichigo did nothing for them specifically. And if everyone around Ichigo should be capable of gaining such powers, then, logically, everyone in the human world should be capable of gaining powers like that. And if that is the case, Ichigo being there does not really matter, does it? Cause, that means everyone has a dormant power like that regardless of Ichigo's location or relationship to them.
They had the potential for the power, but it was exposure to Ichigo as a Shinigami that awoke the power. Orihime's fairy explained that.

And everyone around Ichigo is able to gain powers because of the nexus. The different kinds of souls in Soul Society prove that not everybody is capable of gaining powers.
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Old 2006-10-31, 17:38   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
They had the potential for the power, but it was exposure to Ichigo as a Shinigami that awoke the power. Orihime's fairy explained that.

And everyone around Ichigo is able to gain powers because of the nexus. The different kinds of souls in Soul Society prove that not everybody is capable of gaining powers.
What you say is different from getting the power from someone. And I am not against that, it is nothing more than forcing yourself to awaken the powers, something that quickens the process. If those people were not to carry the characteristics to give birth to such powers, being near Ichigo wouldn't have mattered. Otherwise, Ichigo can cause everyone to awaken such powers, and as you said this is not the case.
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Old 2006-11-01, 04:39   Link #55
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The moment Ichigo died in Urahara's training room
I'm sorry but when was THAT?? I don't remember him actually dying... I think even if he was training, he was doing it as a soul... just like a shinigami... but dying?
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Old 2006-11-01, 04:44   Link #56
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When his chain of fate was cut by Urahara he died. That separated his soul from his body. Presumably Urahara did something to keep his body alive without a soul in it, but Ichigo became a dead spirit. Specifically he became a plus.

At any rate, after spending several days with his chain of fate cut, he became irrevocably dead. After that, his body was just a gigai to him. If it had gotten run over by a car, Ichigo the shinigami would have been left standing there with a stunned look on his face and ready to pop into a new gigai.
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Old 2006-11-01, 14:24   Link #57
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I don't think so. The moment Ichigo died in Urahara's training room, his physical body became nothing more than a normal Gigai for him, and Urahara could just create a new one in case the body got lost. That's what I meant with "the body isn't important". Isshin came for Kon! I think he even said something like "This charm was made specifically for YOU", and not "for this body".
I was wondering from the start, which relevance this chapter had, since it doesn't make much sense for te author to reval Isshin's identity to the audoence at this point, but it could be foreshadowing something about Kon
.
I am in agreement with the above statemnet but what about the Grandfischer Angle . Just a coincidence Kon happened to be at the wrong place at the right time hence got saved . Your veiws on that ^^

Also it would have been better if Kon was not reduced to an Omake . He should have had more powers like Anti Arrncar Super Kaizo Konpakku like Ururu. Edit: In Kon's debut ep he was shown as powerful (ie matched Ichigo in fists had the upper hand ) but later was reduced to a comic releif
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Old 2006-11-01, 14:39   Link #58
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
When his chain of fate was cut by Urahara he died. That separated his soul from his body. Presumably Urahara did something to keep his body alive without a soul in it, but Ichigo became a dead spirit. Specifically he became a plus.

At any rate, after spending several days with his chain of fate cut, he became irrevocably dead. After that, his body was just a gigai to him. If it had gotten run over by a car, Ichigo the shinigami would have been left standing there with a stunned look on his face and ready to pop into a new gigai.
I don't see any difference between his latest state and his previous state when he had shinigami powers borrowed from Rukia. Also, spending several seconds or several days should not make any difference, as long as the person whose soul chain was cut stays outside the original body.

Maybe, there is a way to tie Ichigo's soul to his body once again but without using gigai. There should be a difference between him occupying his body and Kon occupying his body.
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Old 2006-11-01, 15:31   Link #59
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In Kon's debut ep he was shown as powerful
I'm very confused about that too...

I mean he's a mod soul, just like Ririn, Nova & the annoying dude.
He's not that strong, but in the 1st epis he beat Ichi's ass up.
Come too think of it, so far each Mod soul had some special ability...
Nova - teleportation, simply said
Claude - morphing
Ririn - illusions was it not? I hate the fillers, so I don't pay too much attention
Kon - .... tam tam tam tammm...... is being an idiotic comic relief & a boob maniac a special ability?
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Old 2006-11-01, 15:55   Link #60
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Yeah he is not powerful but he did have the upper hand against Ichi in debut ep , as I said now he is just an Omake . Actually I belive Ururu is the strongest Mod Soul and you are fogetting Jinta . Also Rin Rin Claude and Nova are filler Orignals we cant take them into consideration
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