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Old 2006-11-02, 23:44   Link #81
Dark`
The Terror of Death
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklightz View Post
I disagree.The Death Note is the perfect killing weapon,it leaves no trace of it's user.Therefore as long as the user himself doesn't create evidence of his crime,he's safe.If Light had spared Ling L Taylor,L would have had no clue where to search.

While I agree on a fundamental level that some criminals can't be reformed and death is the onyl way to deal with them,the problem remains,who can be the judge?No matter who does the judging,there will be injustice.
I wouldn't say no clue. After all, L did notice the first guy that Light killed in order to see if the Death Note was real or not. It's just that it wouldn't have been as readily apparent to L if Light had stayed his hand.

As for the "damned if he did and damned if he didn't" comment, that was mine. However, that was directly aimed at the whole Ray Penbar situation. Basically, Light convinced himself that the longer he was under scrutiny, the larger the chance that he may somehow be connected to Kira somehow. Thus, he chose to act and take Ray out.

If he didn't act, he could have been watched for months, years, or maybe even for however long the Kira case remained unsolved. If he did act, the fact that he took out Ray, who was watching him, may cause him to come under suspicion even more. Hence the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" line.
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[14:22] <~lucifer> Dark` has to stay around to QC Genshiken s2
[14:22] <~lucifer> since you guys won't
[14:22] <~lucifer> So he gets the blessing of "Least Faggoty".
[14:22] <@Dark`> =D
[14:22] <~lucifer> Then after I finish Genshiken S2 dvd rips, he's free game.
[14:22] <~lucifer> (Read: Canada's getting blown up.)
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Old 2006-11-03, 06:38   Link #82
spy6060
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If i remember correctly, the writer of death note was asked about this question in the volume 13 of the manga, "do you consider L good as the good guys, and light evil?" the answer he gives is "no, both of them should be consider evil since they used all the power in their hand for the personal goal, in the case of light, he want to use the death note to create a utopian society, where he is the god. In the case of L, he used all the method he have (including illegal ones) to catch kira, not because what he is doing is against the law, but because he want to prove he is smarter and better than light." and in the end he says "The only character who can be consider to be the good guys, is light's father."
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Old 2006-11-03, 06:47   Link #83
Trax
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Regardless of his intentions or motives, Light is a murderer. No ifs and buts. I might feel different if Light would actually consider his actions a burden, but he seems to rejoice in the fact. Power mad, I say. Next thing you know he'll be killing people that are bumping into him by accident, or for other petty reasons.

As for L, he's using all possible resources to try and catch a murderer. Can't really see the problem with that.
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Old 2006-11-03, 07:11   Link #84
AK-kun
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Yes. Whatever it is, Light killed people. L is correct in saying that Light's punishment is death.
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Old 2006-11-03, 10:51   Link #85
Neux
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When people say killing is wrong regardless of intention, and that that is murder no matter what. How about euthanasia? Someone who lives in pain and wants to die but cannot...A person sees this and wants to end that person's misery. Is that person committing murder? That person's intent was to help relieve that person of pain and let that person die..leaving that person live on in pain can arguably also be seen as cruel....

Quote:
As for L, he's using all possible resources to try and catch a murderer. Can't really see the problem with that.
Then on the same note, it's OK for L to spy on other people for the sake for catching a criminal? It's OK for the government or the police to spy on its all citizens to catch a single murderer (or a group of murderers)? Anyways, L may be using all his resources to catch Kira for justice, but Kira is also using all his resources to fight for his justice. They are both doing the exact same thing.

About how Ray and the other agents were killed. The main reason was to get closer to L. There are countless other FBI agents, the police out there, and he has not killed a single one. The agents who were after Kira were dragged into the battle by L and they got caught in the cross fire. Kira hasn't changed his goal at all, but L left Kira no choice but to retaliate after L *openly* declared war on Kira. With L around, Kira can't really continue his plan for his better world...Kira needs to get rid of L first, once L is gone, then Kira can continue killing only criminals. L is that much of a threat to Kira, which shows how good L is.

Last edited by Neux; 2006-11-03 at 11:26.
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Old 2006-11-03, 11:14   Link #86
ThisIsDream
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So u guys are saying Light is a murderer because u dont like the Death penalty he gave for criminals? Then all executers in the world are murderers... Like I mention before, this is the penalty problems. All police put human being in jail, treating them like an animals in Zoo. What are they lol?
PLEASE dont come up with the "right" problem again -_-. all human are the same.
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Old 2006-11-03, 12:25   Link #87
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsDream View Post
So u guys are saying Light is a murderer because u dont like the Death penalty he gave for criminals? Then all executers in the world are murderers... Like I mention before, this is the penalty problems. All police put human being in jail, treating them like an animals in Zoo. What are they lol?
PLEASE dont come up with the "right" problem again -_-. all human are the same.
The point is that these criminals aren't meant to be executed by the whim of a single person, they are sentenced to death by the People. It's like the difference between a democratic republic, and a single dictator who can do whatever he wants. You might not see the difference, but there is one.
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Old 2006-11-03, 12:40   Link #88
Trax
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Really sounds to me like some people are just making excuses. Light isn't performing euthanasia, he's executing people without due process, regardless if they deserve it or not. It's even worse in the case of the FBI agents he had executed, which probably wasn't even necessary to avoid getting caught at that point. As for comparing it to L's actions, that's totally ridicilous. Surveillance and execution aren't even in the same ballpark. But I suppose it's pointless to argue with Light fans.
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Old 2006-11-03, 12:43   Link #89
Orchunter226
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Before I considered the argument of whether what Light was doing good or bad deeds a hard one to consider. These criminals are the dregs of society and it could be argued either way. However, now that he is killing innocent people, REGARDLESS of whether they are after him or not, it is wrong. I don't care if an FBI agent had caught him and was hauling him. Killing that agent is a murder. These people were innocents doing their jobs, not some criminals deserving death.
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Old 2006-11-03, 12:55   Link #90
ThisIsDream
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For musouka, I think u are conservative . Yea sometimes new ideas are hard to accept. Look back to the history, there are such a thing call revolution. However I think u perfer mojority judge minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsDream View Post
There are always people who don't accept or recognize an other human being doing things. They will think we are all Human Being, we are all the same. Why would u have the "right" to do this or do that..............

So Conclusion will be - Waiting for Non-Human Being to change the Human Being world.

And like I said before, Yagami is kind different from dictator, he is not going to force people to accpet his idea, he want people slowly accept the ideal world, and he understand ppl have 2 faces...... omg plz read earlier posts...
and for Trax, I m not light's fan, just pointing no wrong and right.
Orchunter226, please read earlier posts lol.
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Old 2006-11-03, 13:07   Link #91
Trax
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Just thought of a nice analogy... Let's say a neighborhood is plagued by a gang, causing trouble and committing various crimes including violent ones. For some reason (possibly revenge) a vigilante has had enough and goes after members of the gang one by one. While people in the neighborhood would know it was essentially murder, they obviously wouldn't disapprove and think "good riddance". The authorities would be trying to catch the vigilante however, with the neighborhood people not very cooperative at that point. But if this vigilante would gun down some police officers in order not to get caught, people would definately not approve and might even be worried what would happen if they saw the vigilante in the act. At that point, eventhough they symphatize with the intention, they would probably prefer that the vigilante gets caught. At least, that's what I think.
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Old 2006-11-03, 13:28   Link #92
hitokirigirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trax View Post
Just thought of a nice analogy... Let's say a neighborhood is plagued by a gang, causing trouble and committing various crimes including violent ones. For some reason (possibly revenge) a vigilante has had enough and goes after members of the gang one by one. While people in the neighborhood would know it was essentially murder, they obviously wouldn't disapprove and think "good riddance". The authorities would be trying to catch the vigilante however, with the neighborhood people not very cooperative at that point. But if this vigilante would gun down some police officers in order not to get caught, people would definately not approve and might even be worried what would happen if they saw the vigilante in the act. At that point, eventhough they symphatize with the intention, they would probably prefer that the vigilante gets caught. At least, that's what I think.
Somehow your example illustrates very well what Raito said in episode 1 : people are hypocrite. For the sake of morality, they won't say or act as they'd like...
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Old 2006-11-03, 13:33   Link #93
ThisIsDream
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Trax, your analogy just exactly what people have 2 faces like. Yagami Raito knows that. I dont know if is a good example to compare the For some reason (possibly revenge) vigilante to Kira.... A neighborhood's issue to a Utopia world.
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Old 2006-11-03, 13:42   Link #94
ThisIsDream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitokirigirl View Post
Somehow your example illustrates very well what Raito said in episode 1 : people are hypocrite. For the sake of morality, they won't say or act as they'd like...
lol how many times need to mention Raito knows people have 2 faces, and he also know that people need time to accept the idea. If even if they dont, he is not going to kill them. What u guys are saying is similar to what the 2nd kira was doing on sakura Tv and that is not what Raito wants, he could care less about those critics.
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Old 2006-11-03, 13:52   Link #95
masakenji
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errr, Light failed the moment he said to want to RULE and become a GOD!

we all know its wrong to kill people, however i would kill child molesters if i got the chance. but thats not what Light is doing. he is killing innocents.

Last edited by masakenji; 2006-11-03 at 15:45.
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Old 2006-11-03, 14:04   Link #96
ThisIsDream
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This is a revolution, like a war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarST View Post
Yagami Light also killed innocent people doing their job, like...

Spoiler for episode 5:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post
Again, think of this as a war between Kira and L. Both are fighting for control over the world. Innocent people are bound to get caught in the cross fire. Think of those people as L's soldiers who are doing their job to hunt and kill Kira. Kira is being attacked by enemy soldiers, even if those soldiers are doing their job, even if they are innocent, they are trying to kill Kira. And think, it was L who brought those innocent people into the battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsDream View Post
For people who gonna say Yagami Raito cross the line of killing (innocent) people who are after him or (innocent)people who are opposite him.

The answer will be this -

Yagami Raito only kill those (innocent) people who are opposite him and also willing to risk their life to stop//catch//kill "kira" the "ideal world". IN that case deaths are inevitable.
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Old 2006-11-03, 14:57   Link #97
Trax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsDream View Post
Trax, your analogy just exactly what people have 2 faces like. Yagami Raito knows that. I dont know if is a good example to compare the For some reason (possibly revenge) vigilante to Kira.... A neighborhood's issue to a Utopia world.
I don't see what's wrong with the analogy. It's pretty much the same situation, just on a different scale (making the neighborhood safe vs. making the world safe).
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Old 2006-11-03, 15:14   Link #98
ThisIsDream
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I think the different is here For some reason (possibly revenge) vigilante and Kira.
Also neighborhood safe vs. making the world safe,

Neighborhood = a group of people. Just like Raito only protecting his own family (or some group of people) only to me.
World = Everyone in the world.
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Old 2006-11-03, 15:48   Link #99
masakenji
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Quoted from the Manga.

"A God that needs to know the name and face of a person sounds more like a joke than anything. This is not "Gods Judgement" It's only a childish person playing God"
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Old 2006-11-03, 15:54   Link #100
ThisIsDream
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Edite this quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post
Again, think of this as a war between Kira and L. Both are fighting for control over the world. Innocent people are bound to get caught in the cross fire. Think of those people as L's soldiers who are doing their job to hunt and kill Kira. Kira is being attacked by enemy soldiers, even if those soldiers are doing their job, even if they are innocent, they are trying to kill Kira. And think, it was L who brought those innocent people into the battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post

About how Ray and the other agents were killed. The main reason was to get closer to L. There are countless other FBI agents, the police out there, and he has not killed a single one. The agents who were after Kira were dragged into the battle by L and they got caught in the cross fire. Kira hasn't changed his goal at all, but L left Kira no choice but to retaliate after L *openly* declared war on Kira. With L around, Kira can't really continue his plan for his better world...Kira needs to get rid of L first, once L is gone, then Kira can continue killing only criminals. L is that much of a threat to Kira, which shows how good L is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neux View Post
True, but as someone put it, Light was "damned if he did and damned if he didn't".

Again, think of this as a war between Kira and L. Both are fighting for control over the world. Innocent people are bound to get caught in the cross fire. Think of those people as L's soldiers who are doing their job to hunt and kill Kira. Kira is being attacked by enemy soldiers, even if those soldiers are doing their job, even if they are innocent, they are trying to kill Kira. And think, it was L who brought those innocent people into the battle.


Neux, nice points, but here are so many people are too plain to see deeply. They only see ok Raito kill FBi agent, he is innocent. Ok Light is evil he is wrong. LOL

Last edited by ThisIsDream; 2006-11-03 at 16:05.
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