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Old 2006-11-04, 14:24   Link #21
matsuno
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Originally Posted by cheese4u View Post
I was thinking maybe wind could be a natural enemy to smoke.
If he were pure smoke, sure that has merit, but these are logia users, so only parts of them become th element when its being hit (so to speak) and that means that while its smoke its under control, and almost surely ascts as an anchor with the rest of teh body. Now if one can force smoker into a full smoke state, that might be a valid type of strategy.
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Old 2006-11-04, 14:25   Link #22
airsBlue
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umm.. i think luffy already figured a way to fight with smoker when he was in arabasta.

do u remember when croc tried to sank them in his casino ... after zoro saved smoker ... luffy was ready to fight him .. even thought luffy had escaped from him since he knew he couldn't hurt him in the past .. i think luffy was ready to fight him back then ..
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Old 2006-11-04, 14:30   Link #23
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^ Interesting thought, but I think its more likely that he was just purely ready to fight. He's not going to just roll over if someone wants him to do something he doesn't (like being arrested). So regardless of the situation, he was asserting his perogative.
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Old 2006-11-04, 15:57   Link #24
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by matsuno View Post
If he were pure smoke, sure that has merit, but these are logia users, so only parts of them become th element when its being hit (so to speak) and that means that while its smoke its under control, and almost surely ascts as an anchor with the rest of teh body. Now if one can force smoker into a full smoke state, that might be a valid type of strategy.
No one had to force Crocodile into a full state of sand in order for the water to take affect.
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Old 2006-11-04, 19:09   Link #25
Rageaholic01
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Well, due to all this discussion i have another question.
When a logia user is it with something, it goes through them making them invincible but do they actually have to control their body and make it go through them or is it an automatic thing like in Gaaras case from Naruto.

At first i thought it was an automatic thing but after rewatching the episode with Ace in it and him and smoker are in the bar. Luffy comes flying through and sams into smoker however luffy doesn't go through him, he actually connects and all three of them smash into the wall.
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Old 2006-11-04, 20:04   Link #26
cheese4u
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Originally Posted by Rageaholic01 View Post
Well, due to all this discussion i have another question.
When a logia user is it with something, it goes through them making them invincible but do they actually have to control their body and make it go through them or is it an automatic thing like in Gaaras case from Naruto.

At first i thought it was an automatic thing but after rewatching the episode with Ace in it and him and smoker are in the bar. Luffy comes flying through and sams into smoker however luffy doesn't go through him, he actually connects and all three of them smash into the wall.
That's a good question. It seems to me that when it comes to DF's, nothing is set in stone. That means what's true for some DF's isn't true for it all. From what I've seen I'd say that logia users have complete control over there powers and can be solid or whatever whenever they feel like it.

While we're on the subject I have a question. Is Kalifa a logia fruit user? Its kind of hard to tell since most logia's involve elements or things of that sort. It's hard to imagine soap being an element.
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Old 2006-11-05, 00:54   Link #27
S_C_L-1
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nope, Kalifa has a paramecia DF
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Old 2006-11-05, 09:20   Link #28
matsuno
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Originally Posted by cheese4u View Post
That's a good question. It seems to me that when it comes to DF's, nothing is set in stone. That means what's true for some DF's isn't true for it all. From what I've seen I'd say that logia users have complete control over there powers and can be solid or whatever whenever they feel like it.
What we seem to have from Logia users is the ability to choose to use their abilities towards combat, while the effects in terms of defence seem to be always active.

When I say this, lets look at two Characters. Smoker and Luffy.

When they fight, they choose to use their powers, we know this in how Luffy fights, and by Smoker's intial attack on Luffy (he claims he doesnt even need to use his powers).

However Luffy when gets hit, has his gomu gomu powers actuivate so to speak by stretching to absorb the hit. In the same idea, We could then assume that a logia DF reacts the same and would allow the physical object (unless it counteracts the effect of the power) to pass through without issue.

A breat example of the second statement would be in Enel's ability to absorb the attacks in Sky Peia without any cause of worry (how many times did he have things struck through his body?), till Luffy was the one to attack him. Meaning that nothing not designed to be resistant, or halt electricity could of hurt him.
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Old 2006-11-05, 16:02   Link #29
Gaiyae
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Didn't zoro say in the water7 arc that everyone got stronger?
The whole adventuring, beating up enemy's let's them grow (if you ask me).
This isn't the typical training anime like naruto or dbz. Characters can grow by learning things. Luffy thinks of new techniques, Nami discovers new moves from her climatact, Usopp invents new creations and uses it to aid him in battle etc. Everyone grow on there own way.

And unlike what most of you think.. i think everyone in the strawhats are equel in strength in there own way. There really isn't someone who is really weaker than other characters. People like to think that Usopp is the weakest, but i think if he had the courage he could be as strong as Luffy... (and yes i watched the Usopp vs Luffy fight) Alot of people seem to compare this anime to DBZ, where power is all about your powerlevel. But in this anime it's more about technique's/stategy than raw strength. Luffy could have never beaten Enel if his power couldn't absorb lightning.
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Old 2006-11-05, 17:16   Link #30
Tommy
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Well of course Luffy has gotten stronger, its evident throughout the whole series and especially in the more recent Water 7/enies lobby arc vs the CP9 agents.
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Old 2006-11-05, 17:18   Link #31
cheese4u
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaiyae View Post
Didn't zoro say in the water7 arc that everyone got stronger?
The whole adventuring, beating up enemy's let's them grow (if you ask me).
This isn't the typical training anime like naruto or dbz. Characters can grow by learning things. Luffy thinks of new techniques, Nami discovers new moves from her climatact, Usopp invents new creations and uses it to aid him in battle etc. Everyone grow on there own way.

And unlike what most of you think.. i think everyone in the strawhats are equel in strength in there own way. There really isn't someone who is really weaker than other characters. People like to think that Usopp is the weakest, but i think if he had the courage he could be as strong as Luffy... (and yes i watched the Usopp vs Luffy fight) Alot of people seem to compare this anime to DBZ, where power is all about your powerlevel. But in this anime it's more about technique's/stategy than raw strength. Luffy could have never beaten Enel if his power couldn't absorb lightning.
That's true, and it also depends on what you're fighting for. When Usopp and Luffy fought, Luffy was fighting for his pride as a captain. While Usopp was fighting to protect a friend. I'd say motivations even that fight out a bit. Though I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all equal in strength. It doesn't matter what you're fighting for, sometimes you just can't win against raw power. I think Hawk eye and Aokiji already proved that.
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Old 2006-11-05, 23:49   Link #32
Rageaholic01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matsuno View Post
What we seem to have from Logia users is the ability to choose to use their abilities towards combat, while the effects in terms of defence seem to be always active.

When I say this, lets look at two Characters. Smoker and Luffy.

When they fight, they choose to use their powers, we know this in how Luffy fights, and by Smoker's intial attack on Luffy (he claims he doesnt even need to use his powers).

However Luffy when gets hit, has his gomu gomu powers actuivate so to speak by stretching to absorb the hit. In the same idea, We could then assume that a logia DF reacts the same and would allow the physical object (unless it counteracts the effect of the power) to pass through without issue.

A breat example of the second statement would be in Enel's ability to absorb the attacks in Sky Peia without any cause of worry (how many times did he have things struck through his body?), till Luffy was the one to attack him. Meaning that nothing not designed to be resistant, or halt electricity could of hurt him.
but what about when luffy hit smoker who hit ace and all three of them went into the wall? or was this just an anime only thing?
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Old 2006-11-06, 00:37   Link #33
S_C_L-1
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no, it was in the manga.

thus the many speculations about having to consciously activate it.
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Old 2006-11-06, 00:38   Link #34
matsuno
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^Thats an anime only thing.

We have only seen Ace in two situations so far, in his search for Blackbeard miniseries, and his visit to Luffy.

and also, Luuffy has yet to fight Smoker since the Loguetown arc. They only really passed by each other in Arabasta
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Old 2006-11-06, 00:43   Link #35
S_C_L-1
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Originally Posted by matsuno View Post
^Thats an anime only thing.

We have only seen Ace in two situations so far, in his search for Blackbeard miniseries, and his visit to Luffy.

and also, Luuffy has yet to fight Smoker since the Loguetown arc. They only really passed by each other in Arabasta
uhh... dude...

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Old 2006-11-06, 08:30   Link #36
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I thought that when Smoker and Ace were fighting they both turned to fire and smoke completly, but that's not sure... but Ereu had to change into lighting completly to teleport so Logia user can change into his element completly at will

Luffy got stronger, when he was fighting Kuro he had to wait to see through his movement and since Oda said that Soru has similar speed, but had advantage of acuracy we know that Luffy now would kick Kuro's bad in 2 sec XD

I think that Luffy's raw strengh is still growing (since he said he could beat Ace, and that's proves that he was weaker while leaving) he is ever growing
he could crash stone at the begining but now he can move buildings XD

Usopp as strong as Luffy or not can't win against him cause Luffy has the will to fight no matter what that's why Usopp had to lose, there's no way to win against Luffy without killing him and guarding his body for 3 days to make sure he won't ressurect XD
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Old 2006-11-06, 09:56   Link #37
Gaiyae
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Originally Posted by Wolcik View Post
I thought that when Smoker and Ace were fighting they both turned to fire and smoke completly, but that's not sure... but Ereu had to change into lighting completly to teleport so Logia user can change into his element completly at will

Luffy got stronger, when he was fighting Kuro he had to wait to see through his movement and since Oda said that Soru has similar speed, but had advantage of acuracy we know that Luffy now would kick Kuro's bad in 2 sec XD

I think that Luffy's raw strengh is still growing (since he said he could beat Ace, and that's proves that he was weaker while leaving) he is ever growing
he could crash stone at the begining but now he can move buildings XD

Usopp as strong as Luffy or not can't win against him cause Luffy has the will to fight no matter what that's why Usopp had to lose, there's no way to win against Luffy without killing him and guarding his body for 3 days to make sure he won't ressurect XD
*cough*Darkschneider*cough*
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Old 2006-11-06, 18:32   Link #38
matsuno
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uhh... dude...

I still dont remember the chapter at all. can you tell me the chapter so I can go re read it?
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Old 2006-11-06, 18:53   Link #39
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chapter 158
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Old 2006-11-06, 23:52   Link #40
Rageaholic01
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unless maybe because the seastone on smokers back got pushed against him when luffy hit him from behind...
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