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Old 2006-11-05, 10:44   Link #2281
musouka
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You know, you guys. I've been following this thread for a long time, and I think there's some excellent discussion here. I also understand feeling bitter that Simoun doesn't have the widespread appeal you think it deserves, because I agree 100%. I loved this series.

Having said that, this elitist attitude is really getting on my nerves. I loved Simoun. I'm also enjoying Kanon. I also like (GASP) mainstream shounen, like Kekkaishi. Gee, I guess this means I'm a horrible, slobbering "fanboy" for not just worshipping Simoun and and looking down upon more mainstream offerings. You know, the best way to tell people about Simoun is to be passionate about it, and keep on trying. It's not insulting other shows people enjoy and insulting the people that enjoy them.
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Old 2006-11-05, 12:10   Link #2282
Matrim
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Quote:
Having said that, this elitist attitude is really getting on my nerves. I loved Simoun. I'm also enjoying Kanon. I also like (GASP) mainstream shounen, like Kekkaishi. Gee, I guess this means I'm a horrible, slobbering "fanboy" for not just worshipping Simoun and and looking down upon more mainstream offerings. You know, the best way to tell people about Simoun is to be passionate about it, and keep on trying. It's not insulting other shows people enjoy and insulting the people that enjoy them.
Don't you think you are exaggerating things a bit? Insulting shows? WTF? If I think a series is stupid or bad I say it, it's not as if its creators are reading my words and will get insulted anyway. Why not just stop saying anything but words of praise about anime or movies because, you know, the shows might get insulted? Insulting the fans of shows I don't like is completely different matter altogether and I try my best to avoid it but it's a fact that some fans of Kanon have a fanboyish attitude towards it, just like some fans of Simoun (me for instance) have more or less fanboyish or fangirlish attitude towards it. But since fans of mainstream shows are usually more numerous and outspoken than those of shows that are under the radar like Simoun, it's somewhat easier for one to get pissed off by all the praise for say Death Note than by the praise for a little known show he happens to hate too. And btw, who in this thread demands everyone to worship Simoun and snub anything and everything that's mainstream? I doubt that's what catcher's post was all about.

Quote:
So while mainstream doesn't automatically mean something sucks, it doesn't mean its great either.
I doubt anyone would seriously argue with this, even in this "elitist" thread.
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Old 2006-11-05, 12:47   Link #2283
musouka
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Quote:
Don't you think you are exaggerating things a bit?
Not really, no. I thought this was the Simoun thread, not the "those uguu~ moe fanboys are so annoying!" thread. Do you really not understand how this comes across if you guys sit here and complain about the plebes that like stuff you guys don't?

If you want to write negative things about Kanon, be my guest. I got into a rather heated exchange because I had less than complimentary things to say about certain aspects too. The difference is I actually brought it to the Kanon thread instead of sitting in a thread devoted to an entirely different show and making generalizations about Kanon fans as opposed to those who are privileged to have the "good taste" to like non-mainstream shows.

I guess you just don't get how obnoxious that can come across to someone that loves Simoun (but isn't a hardcore enough fangirl like yourself, I guess) and comes here to read interesting discussions about the girls and the world of Simoun instead of generalities about other anime fans and what "undeserving" shows are currently popular.
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Old 2006-11-05, 13:18   Link #2284
FatPianoBoy
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Yeah... I think this is all my fault
I went and recommended Kanon to some people here, since they're both very character-oriented shows, I thought maybe some people would be interested.
How's about we drop the whole Kanon thing?
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Old 2006-11-05, 13:27   Link #2285
Conri
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Random comments...

I was never disappointed with the ending of Simoun, therefore I did not have to do any rationalization. The more important climax to me occured in episode 25. I wouldn't have minded a few more explanations, but it didn't hinder my enjoyment, and in some cases, it was much better that way.

RE: FatPianoBoy
"Gao" beats "Uguu" any day of the week.

RE: Kanon
A lot of my enjoyment from Kanon comes from having made it through the first series. I remember just enough to notice most of the foreshadowing, and I've forgotten just enough for it to be almost like watching the stories for the first time. I'm not sure how I'd react if this was my first Kanon experience... I hope I would stick to it, like I stuck to Simoun despite the slow start and the initially 'scary' doll-like eyes. I have to admit, the KyoAni Kanon designs are frightening at times (due to their large eyes, look how close their facial features are!). Even realism is a subjective topic, but I enjoy Kanon for the dream-like feeling, the winter setting, the interweaving stories and mysteries.

RE: warainagara
I see "High level culture" as a bit of a sham to fool others or ourselves. The meaning one person gets from War and Peace another person might get from the Bible, Calvin and Hobbes, or Pokémon. It is not my place (and in fact, quite impossible) to judge people's minds, ages, experiences, or anything else based on what they like or don't like, what they see or don't see. After all, we live in a cool world, where a plastic ring can be worth more than a $10,000 jewelry collector's dream.

I don't care if other people think Simoun or One Piece or ARIA is or isn't "high culture." If they give me inspiration or enjoyment or thought provocation, that's good enough for me. All three of these titles have given me all three reactions. Call me childish all you want. You'd be right. And I hope you're still right when I'm 50 or 60...otherwise, I'll have let the world wash something important out of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy
Yeah... I think this is all my fault
Nah..."messes" on forums take multiple people. For instance, 'trolls' only really become a problem when the bashing starts getting thrown around. This is nothing...quite tame.

EDIT:
Spoiler for more messy, rough fanart:
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Last edited by Conri; 2006-11-05 at 13:57.
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Old 2006-11-05, 13:28   Link #2286
Matrim
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Quote:
Not really, no. I thought this was the Simoun thread, not the "those uguu~ moe fanboys are so annoying!" thread.
Well, the fact that we are off-topic can is annoying, yes and I am mostly to blame for this. I apologize, it wasn't my intention to hijack the thread in order to satisfy my elitism with a bit of bashing. If some mod visits this thread maybe it would be best if the last posts get deleted for being too off-topic. So let's just stop here before I get accussed of yet more generalizing...

BTW, the Simoun drama CD is actually somewhat understandable even for me and it's nice to hear more of this amazing seiyuu cast. Is there supposed to be any coherent plot (apart from the Tokyo company ) in it or just random jokes and fun?
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Old 2006-11-05, 16:24   Link #2287
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
BTW, the Simoun drama CD is actually somewhat understandable even for me and it's nice to hear more of this amazing seiyuu cast. Is there supposed to be any coherent plot (apart from the Tokyo company ) in it or just random jokes and fun?
Not sure, but probably the latter. I've made it through the third track, but no sign of a real plot yet. Onashia shows up in a bathhouse, though
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Old 2006-11-05, 17:23   Link #2288
warainagara
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Let me defend my previous post.
It is not that I was offended by any comments from here about Canon.
FatPianoBoy, just in case, I was not targeting you at all.
Neither is the post intended to bash some fans who just enjoy Canon or other moe anime.
I myself watch some animes for entertainment only or mostly both enjoy and think.
Having found some fans of Kyoto anime or Kanon/Air not only enjoying the titles or praising them but also compare those with other series to prove their superiority in a board that deals with all kinds of animes,
I have been somewhat disturbed recently.
As for Kanon, they say it has a great and touching story.
I was tempted by the discussion about Kanon here to respond to that in the way to suggest another perspective that negates the absoluteness of the belief.
Unlike the tone in the post, I don't have any trouble with those who think it is great based on their standard without debasing other series.
For the basis on which I think that Simoun or Eva is great, is as subjective as theirs AND it is NOT that I criticize Kanon because I think that Simoun should be better acknowledged in spite of the reality that mere Kanon is more popular.
Simoun has its own weakness and I know it is hard for those, for example, who are not open to same sex relationship, to watch even the first ep.
I'm just expecting adamant fans of some animes to accept coexistence of more than one perspective.
Well, this is not the best place for such a grumble and my post went extreme without giving an explanation about the behind story, I admit.

As for the "high-level culture," I really want anime to have better recognition, if not as a high-level culture.
I don't know about other countries, but there is a widespread tendency in my country that people think away anime fans to be abnormal regarding their sexual tastes.
Although I'm fine with fanboyism or otakuism itself, its side effect is not at all welcome, you know.
I want my hobby to be more generally agreeable.
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Old 2006-11-05, 18:01   Link #2289
Yaya-chan
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Drama CD

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Not sure, but probably the latter. I've made it through the third track, but no sign of a real plot yet. Onashia shows up in a bathhouse, though
That was the funniest thing that I understood of course.
Follow me.... all the sibyllae are bathing and relaxing in a fuzzy onsen when suddenly they listen the Izumi song and Onashia appears behind you.
I dunno about the others girls, but probally Neviril and Aaeru would freak out! ^_^
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Old 2006-11-05, 18:55   Link #2290
Matrim
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Quote:
Not sure, but probably the latter. I've made it through the third track, but no sign of a real plot yet. Onashia shows up in a bathhouse, though
You know I didn't really expect that onsens are that important even in drama CDs. Onashia's entrance is accompanied by the track that is played often in the anime she is around - Simulacrum Miyakuni which makes the encounter funnier, as already mentioned by Yaya-chan. I think this moment is followed a minute or so later by a conversation about who has the biggest...something. Seems like quite a fanservice track to me. And I have no idea why they start announcing different ri-maajons, as if in a battle with someone.

Quote:
As for the "high-level culture," I really want anime to have better recognition, if not as a high-level culture.
I don't know about other countries, but there is a widespread tendency in my country that people think away anime fans to be abnormal regarding their sexual tastes.
Well, in my country anime is considered to be just cartoons for kids which probably is the better option but still... Is this prejudice you are talking about caused more by the existence of hentai anime or by moe fanservice-full mainstream anime? Anyway, I sadly don't see a way for this prejudice to go away easily, even if some anime movie somehow won an Oscar in the best picture category.

Quote:
I see "High level culture" as a bit of a sham to fool others or ourselves. The meaning one person gets from War and Peace another person might get from the Bible, Calvin and Hobbes, or Pokémon. It is not my place (and in fact, quite impossible) to judge people's minds, ages, experiences, or anything else based on what they like or don't like, what they see or don't see. After all, we live in a cool world, where a plastic ring can be worth more than a $10,000 jewelry collector's dream.

I don't care if other people think Simoun or One Piece or ARIA is or isn't "high culture." If they give me inspiration or enjoyment or thought provocation, that's good enough for me. All three of these titles have given me all three reactions. Call me childish all you want. You'd be right. And I hope you're still right when I'm 50 or 60...otherwise, I'll have let the world wash something important out of me
I haven't watched One Piece but apart from that, I couldn't agree more.
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Old 2006-11-05, 23:53   Link #2291
Yui from Okinawa
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Helical moter "Core-2 Duo" technology?

Caution !!
All Core-2 duo type helical-moter technology is authorized by Temps-Spatium(T.M) shrine!!
The person or INC. who has reproduction copy of core-2 duo type helical-moter have to permission to Temps-Spatium (T.M)
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Old 2006-11-06, 12:29   Link #2292
Goras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaya-chan View Post
That was the funniest thing that I understood of course.
Follow me.... all the sibyllae are bathing and relaxing in a fuzzy onsen when suddenly they listen the Izumi song and Onashia appears behind you.
I dunno about the others girls, but probally Neviril and Aaeru would freak out! ^_^
From what I understood from the drama, they decide to go to tokyo, once they get there Neviril decides to make a enterprise/company (dunno of what). Then there's one track where aeru got his pudin stolen by [don't remember who], and uses surioku riimajon to travel in time & recover it (lol...). Too bad Yun is not in the drama
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Old 2006-11-06, 12:49   Link #2293
fignae
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I've been wondering whether there were any negative reactions to the drama cd. Was anyone, like me, a little offended at first? Anyone think Neviril is way too out-of-character? Mamiina and Rodore's track worked best for me. They were comic and yet still themselves, except for the ending, which I didn't like of course. :P

Spoiler for more specific details of the drama cd:

Missed Yun, and Dominura, and Alti, Morinas.... Alt-Simoun isn't the same without them.
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Old 2006-11-06, 16:47   Link #2294
animes25
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one thing that I dont understand is why, the enemy simoun girls(from the other country), didnt escaped with Neviril and Mamiina, they could ask for political asylum, because they where prepared to die as traitors then it would be more easy to escape instead of what they did
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Old 2006-11-07, 00:05   Link #2295
atosaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animes25 View Post
one thing that I dont understand is why, the enemy simoun girls(from the other country), didnt escaped with Neviril and Mamiina, they could ask for political asylum, because they where prepared to die as traitors then it would be more easy to escape instead of what they did
Here is a realistic answer. the reason is that there was no seat for them. The formation of a pair of herical motoris becomes vertical as a simoun starts to fly. If the enemy pristesses just kept holding on to the simoun like before they jumped off, they would just fall to death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fignae View Post
Spoiler for more specific details of the drama cd:
I'm with you. I knew it was just for like jokes but still I couldn't stand that kind of Neviril.
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Old 2006-11-07, 00:12   Link #2296
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animes25 View Post
one thing that I dont understand is why, the enemy simoun girls(from the other country), didnt escaped with Neviril and Mamiina, they could ask for political asylum, because they where prepared to die as traitors then it would be more easy to escape instead of what they did
Practicalities of seating aside, maybe they were prepared to die as traitors but not prepared to actually be traitors. Or maybe it is illogical, not sure.
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Old 2006-11-07, 01:24   Link #2297
IchiKyo
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Old 2006-11-07, 02:48   Link #2298
catcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animes25 View Post
one thing that I dont understand is why, the enemy simoun girls(from the other country), didnt escaped with Neviril and Mamiina, they could ask for political asylum, because they where prepared to die as traitors then it would be more easy to escape instead of what they did
Perhaps the concept of political asylum is alien to them. And besides, with the explosive stunt that the other priestess (I think Anglus was the name, I forgot) made, would those with authority allow those priestesses asylum?

And from a practical point of view, defecting is not the best choice. The enemy priestesses already have their ancient Simoun, they know they have a bigger chance of winning.

(And by the way, what is the syntax for the spoiler tag? I can't seem to find the button.)
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Old 2006-11-07, 04:43   Link #2299
Kaoru Chujo
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Catcher: Interesting ideas.

All the tags are explained via the link "vB code" at the very bottom left of this page. Spoiler syntax:

[spoiler=some episode]Words you want to hide.[/spoiler]

produces this:
Spoiler for some episode:
(To show the spoiler syntax without it working, I put "noparse" tags around it.)
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Old 2006-11-07, 05:11   Link #2300
fignae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catcher View Post
Perhaps the concept of political asylum is alien to them. And besides, with the explosive stunt that the other priestess (I think Anglus was the name, I forgot) made, would those with authority allow those priestesses asylum?
What will they face, even if they make it over somehow? A trial? Exile? Certainly a life of oppression. They don't even treat Mamiina the same and she's on their side. Although Simulacrum Kyuukoku does seem to be the better of three evils from what we've seen....

I like the practical reason, that there's no space on the Simoun.
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