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Old 2006-12-11, 14:06   Link #761
Benoit
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
That's the whole point. Games don't get popular unless there's a reason for it.
Just because everyone else does something, doesn't mean you should too. The same reasoning applies here.

There are plenty of great games that go unnoticed, and there are a batch of games that are hyped and thus popular, but aren't that great. You see it all the time.

People also give different rating to different greatness. I know you have to take it with a grain of salt, but with all the popularity stuff, that's not enough.

Fuck game scores. Read the damn reviews and go from there. You can't put a number on a game.
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Old 2006-12-11, 15:32   Link #762
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Just because everyone else does something, doesn't mean you should too. The same reasoning applies here.

There are plenty of great games that go unnoticed, and there are a batch of games that are hyped and thus popular, but aren't that great. You see it all the time.

People also give different rating to different greatness. I know you have to take it with a grain of salt, but with all the popularity stuff, that's not enough.

Fuck game scores. Read the damn reviews and go from there. You can't put a number on a game.
Since when did this devolve into an argument about "hyped crappy games vs hidden gems"?
Spoiler for response that most people don't care about:
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Old 2006-12-11, 18:09   Link #763
G005
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I don't think it's really fair to refer to Erogamescape as a popularity contest. After all, there're plenty of hyped bestsellers that haven't scored well (the Shuffle! series, for instance), not to mention unknown titles that are rated highly by the five or so people who vote in.

It's the same with many game review sites like PSMK2 or Amazon Japan. Again, some of the blockbuster hits don't rate well, while several niche ones do. As with all things, you have to take the data with a grain of salt since tastes differ (and the sampling isn't entirely indicative of the big picture. For instance, PSMK2 tends to attract hardcore gamers whereas Amazon reviewers tend to be mainstream consumers). Nonetheless, there's always some degree of merit to the info being presented.

I know some English-speaking fans are put off by the low scores that many domestic releases get -> i.e. Peach Princess, G-Collections, or Hirameki International releases. For that reason, Western fans are inclined to downplay Erogamescape since they personally like many of those poorly rated games.

In truth, many of those games aren't gems in the eyes of Japanese consumers either because they're genuinely mediocre or because they're too ordinary to be interesting (technically solid, but nothing that hasn't been done better in other works). It's kinda like the American console RPG market. Initially, many solid but bland/unextraordinary games were highly loved by genre fans. However, similar products were later viewed with indifference once the variety of available titles increased. Suddenly, a run-of-the-mill game wasn't good enough, and more hooks were needed to keep players interested.
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Old 2006-12-12, 15:41   Link #764
Benoit
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Quote:
Since when did this devolve into an argument about "hyped crappy games vs hidden gems"?
Ever since popularity came into play, obviously.
Quote:
And of course scores don't mean everything, nobody's stupid enough to buy something simply because of some pretty numbers, that's why there are comments attached to every score.
You'd be surprised how many people do that. I even read some angry mails from people that their favorite magazine became useless because they removed the scores from their reviews.

Generally on haeleth's message board, when you want to talk about a game, one of the first responses you'll get is either
"Score of [high number] on erogamescape. Looks good."
or
"Score of [lower number] on erogamescape. Eh, don't think it's that good."
Quote:
I know some English-speaking fans are put off by the low scores that many domestic releases get -> i.e. Peach Princess, G-Collections, or Hirameki International releases. For that reason, Western fans are inclined to downplay Erogamescape since they personally like many of those poorly rated games.
My interest in the English bishoujo game market doesn't relate to this. I simply read up once on what Erogamescape is, and that's what I'm repeating here.
Quote:
In truth, many of those games aren't gems in the eyes of Japanese consumers either because they're genuinely mediocre or because they're too ordinary to be interesting (technically solid, but nothing that hasn't been done better in other works).
Well, we're not spoiled. And just because another game is superior doesn't mean the lesser game is suddenly "ordinary" or "average". Twisted logic.
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Old 2006-12-12, 23:27   Link #765
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Ever since popularity came into play, obviously.
Er, yeah well, I have no intention to talk about that, so no more argument there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
You'd be surprised how many people do that. I even read some angry mails from people that their favorite magazine became useless because they removed the scores from their reviews.

Generally on haeleth's message board, when you want to talk about a game, one of the first responses you'll get is either
"Score of [high number] on erogamescape. Looks good."
or
"Score of [lower number] on erogamescape. Eh, don't think it's that good."
I don't really care about what other people think about scores. The ratings and comments on Erogamescape are personal feedbacks and insights from people who have played the game, nothing more, and nothing less. I will admit that positive comments on Erogamescape is an incentive for me to check out a game, and if I liked what I see from the official site contents (trial version, for example), I buy the full game, and pass on my own judgements after completing it myself.

There's a difference between "it looks good" and "it is good". There's nothing wrong with saying a game "looks good" if you liked what you saw after learning more about the game + good scores from Erogamescape. And even if some people are basing their impressions entirely on scores from a review site, that's still their choice, the best you can do is say "maybe you should try out the game yourself before saying that". Arguing with them and saying "don't trust scores so blindly you idiot" won't get you anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Well, we're not spoiled. And just because another game is superior doesn't mean the lesser game is suddenly "ordinary" or "average". Twisted logic.
That's true, although not everyone thinks that way. Those "ordinary" or "average" ratings are purely subjective. To the English community, the translated games may be refreshing and great, but for the Japanese community, those games may just be a part of a big crowd of similar, "seen-it-done-that" games (hence bad scores on review sites).
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Old 2006-12-13, 00:04   Link #766
GundamZZ
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My eyes are setting on elf's Dragon Knight 4 remake. The progress is 35% right now. I have the old version, but I can never get it to work on Windows 98. Oh well.
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Old 2006-12-13, 00:06   Link #767
kct
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I feel like saying 'balme it on globalization', but that would not make sense.

Well, thing is that there is too many cliches these days >.> .

I try to get round on information about Tenshi no Inai 12-gatsu (the only game I can remember off my head without searching >.>), although I know it's emo <.< .

I can't seem to remember the names of the artists of Leaf-AQUAPLUS >.> .
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Old 2006-12-13, 07:30   Link #768
luckyovermind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Ever since popularity came into play, obviously.
To put it simply: We don't have the money nor the time to dig up the hidden gems, we just check out the popular ones with a high score because it will have a smaller chance of being a landmine. Good games that don't get recognised? Well that's just too bad.

Everybody is different, yes, but not TOO different afterall.

Anyway, if you are in this genre long enough, you will form a solid reason before buying each game (along the lines of: oh, another navel game, must be short and boring and moe~). The scores won't matter much anymore.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kct View Post
MMK, RRR and SSS permanent member, 'honorary' member of KKK
Let me guess, KKK stands for Key Kid Kogado, that correct?
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Old 2006-12-13, 11:00   Link #769
Question
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TSUKIHIME.

The story is just fantastic. The endings are almost perfect as well.
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Old 2006-12-13, 17:24   Link #770
kct
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Originally Posted by luckyovermind View Post
Let me guess, KKK stands for Key Kid Kogado, that correct?
Nah, it means "I can't be bothered to update my sig".
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Old 2006-12-13, 19:27   Link #771
DingoEnderZOE2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamZZ View Post
My eyes are setting on elf's Dragon Knight 4 remake. The progress is 35% right now. I have the old version, but I can never get it to work on Windows 98. Oh well.
Good call. I'm looking forward to that as well and I'm currently re-playing the old version to prepare for it. I wonder how they're gonna re-do the battle system.
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Old 2006-12-13, 21:27   Link #772
shinobiknight0
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So far, I have only been able to obtain Tsukihime, with the English patch, it's my first ero game. Or non ero since I turned it off because I have a little brother and attentive parents. T_T
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Old 2006-12-13, 23:26   Link #773
Amethyst
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Wow, it must've been hard obtaining that Tsukihime copy. I can't imagine for how much the copy of the game sells these days, especially when its status is close to the holy grail itself.
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Old 2006-12-14, 00:01   Link #774
kct
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IT WAS some kind of holy grail, given that it is more doujin-based in nature (which makes it even harder).
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Old 2006-12-14, 10:51   Link #775
Spuffy
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I can't imagine for how much the copy of the game sells these days
28 000 to 35 000 JPY for a Tsukibako box. (~240 to 300 USD)
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Old 2006-12-15, 16:47   Link #776
martino
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That's a bit insane...
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Old 2006-12-15, 23:32   Link #777
fto
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A bit??? that is just plain insane!!! No offence to those rich people who might buy them, but WHO THE **** JUST BUYS GAME THAT EXPENSIVE???

i mean even for a box, that is a bit way too much(sorry for caps)
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Old 2006-12-16, 01:21   Link #778
Sushi-Y
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A bit??? that is just plain insane!!! No offence to those rich people who might buy them, but WHO THE **** JUST BUYS GAME THAT EXPENSIVE???

i mean even for a box, that is a bit way too much(sorry for caps)
Most doujin softs are produced only in limited quantities and go out of print fast, and Tsukibako was no different. Considering it's a complete compilation of every game in the Tsukihime series (Tsukihime, Tsukihime Plus+ Disk, Kagetsu Tohya), which also represented pretty much everything Type-Moon amounted to as a doujin circle, it's incredibly valuable to Type-Moon fans. It also served as somewhat of a symbol that proved you were there when Type-Moon was only a doujin circle on the way to becoming the famous softhouse it is today.

The auction price has been like that for the past couple of years now. And it's probably not going to change anytime soon, as it doesn't look like Type-Moon has any intention to rerelease Tsukihime for now.
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Old 2006-12-16, 11:16   Link #779
Amethyst
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Originally Posted by fto View Post
A bit??? that is just plain insane!!! No offence to those rich people who might buy them, but WHO THE **** JUST BUYS GAME THAT EXPENSIVE???
As Sushi-Y already explained, these games run a very high sentimental value with some people. Who buys such games, you ask? Rich people? You don't need to be rich to buy it. You can just skip shopping here and there and afford it in a month or two, even if you don't have a lot of money. And otaku do shop. Some of them are just willing to go that extra mile, because, well, that's what makes a true hardcore fan, and those who are are proud to be.
I originally made the sarcastically flavored comment about the price of the game because the fans who actually own Tsukihime didn't obtain it as easily as 99,9% of gaijin ota who pirated it. I know this was a bit evil because an original copy of the game really is hard to obtain, still, the light usage of words like obtain, get and own really does irk me as someone who buys, imports and plays all of his visual novels legally.
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Old 2006-12-16, 15:30   Link #780
fto
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Originally Posted by Sushi-Y View Post
Most doujin softs are produced only in limited quantities and go out of print fast, and Tsukibako was no different. Considering it's a complete compilation of every game in the Tsukihime series (Tsukihime, Tsukihime Plus+ Disk, Kagetsu Tohya), which also represented pretty much everything Type-Moon amounted to as a doujin circle, it's incredibly valuable to Type-Moon fans. It also served as somewhat of a symbol that proved you were there when Type-Moon was only a doujin circle on the way to becoming the famous softhouse it is today.

The auction price has been like that for the past couple of years now. And it's probably not going to change anytime soon, as it doesn't look like Type-Moon has any intention to rerelease Tsukihime for now.
Well i understand that, but im saying it because my friend was able to obtain a doujin soft with a couple series like Tsukihime series (unsure of exact # of series) but was able to get it for around 15000 yen to 20000 yen..... (That is the range of price my friend gets game from a certain site, sadly i dont know the exact name of site since im not as rich as him so i cant buy as much)
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