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Old 2004-01-22, 18:10   Link #41
Lambda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sothis
as far as the "doesnt match the request of this thread" thing, i would have to say the same thing about VPM. the tv series at least goes into a little more depth (but completely sucks), whereas the OVAs have an extremely loose, episodic, generic storyline with 2-dimensional characters.
You think so? When I watch it, (the OVAs), the storyline seems unusual and cerebral and the characters interesting and well developed. The big review sites seem to generally agree with me. It is fairly subtle, perhaps this is interfering.
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Old 2004-01-22, 22:43   Link #42
Aquillion
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I would definately add Kino no Tabi ~the beautiful world~ to this list--I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it until now. It's about a traveller who goes between various fictional countries with different cultures; the show uses these different cultures to show some of the foolishness in our own lives. It's very calm and relaxing, but it also shows a great deal of the darkness and tragedy of everyday life.

Also, I didn't notice whether anyone has suggested Infinite Ryvius yet. That's definately a good "intelligent-themed" anime. Sort of like Lord of the Flies in space. Its slow pacing works very well; the tension really builds up towards the last few episodes.
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Old 2004-01-23, 00:57   Link #43
sothis
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Quote:
When I watch it, (the OVAs), the storyline seems unusual and cerebral and the characters interesting and well developed
to each their own, personal preference i suppose.

Quote:
The big review sites seem to generally agree with me.
i know this is off topic, but honestly, i don't think this means anything. there are some series where i agree, and others where i really disagree. and as far as mass opinion of certain series, well, it's certainly easy to see why this argument doesn't work with places like animenfo, where 90% of all "reviews" are utter garbage

Quote:
It is fairly subtle, perhaps this is interfering.
not sure if this is insinuating that i dont catch subtleties, but if it is, you are mistaken. miyu was very boring for me, and shallow in plot and characters. with only 4 episodes, and the fact that they were episodic, doesn't help much for character development and/or a plot (since a plot would be the polar opposite of episodicness).
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Old 2004-01-23, 02:33   Link #44
wsheit
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There is one show that nobody seems to be watching...yet it was perhaps the best show to come out of this past fall. People complained because the artwork had a very different style and the animation wasn't quite up to par (at certain parts) in early episodes. Still, the style is ultimately very refreshing and the story is growing more complicated by the episode.

That's right...I'm talking about Gilgamesh, the anime that most people only watched one episode of and therefore really missed out.

This series DEFINITELY transcends the kiddy influence you are talking about and should hold your attention quite adequately if you can get past an episode or 2 or 3 (at most).
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Old 2004-01-23, 02:38   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
There is one show that nobody seems to be watching...yet it was perhaps the best show to come out of this past fall. People complained because the artwork had a very different style and the animation wasn't quite up to par (at certain parts) in early episodes. Still, the style is ultimately very refreshing and the story is growing more complicated by the episode.

That's right...I'm talking about Gilgamesh, the anime that most people only watched one episode of and therefore really missed out.

This series DEFINITELY transcends the kiddy influence you are talking about and should hold your attention quite adequately if you can get past an episode or 2 or 3 (at most).
Does it have any relation to the story of Gilgamesh? If so, I'm not even thinking of touching it.
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Old 2004-01-23, 03:33   Link #46
wsheit
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Originally Posted by Deralti
Does it have any relation to the story of Gilgamesh? If so, I'm not even thinking of touching it.
Not really...There is an organization name Gilgamesh and a person named Enkidu in the anime...but the legend itself has little bearing on the story.

TRUST ME....I HATED the legend of Gilgamesh when I had to read it back in high school. This is very different- it takes place either in the present or the future
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Old 2004-01-23, 04:01   Link #47
Sepiraph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gho
Hi,

I have been having dificulty finding good anime. I loved Cowboy Bebop (best ever), really enjoyed Lain, GITS and SAC creamed, Shigetsutan Tsukihime, URDA is really cool, Noir is not that great (weak plot and script), but all that I've see after this really sucks.

It is not because I completely disregard childish anime. I love LOVE HINA (specially the manga). But I have seen a LOT OF CRAP recently and I am getting a little lost. Last Exile sucks completely for instance... the production is superb, just like in Read or Die, but what the fuck happened to the history? It all comes to this childish stereotype that I really despise and that crude stupid brother and sister and, oh yes, (done in a girlish voice) "oh we can make it if we try hard" and "sigh"....

I am sick and tired of just watching first episodes and moving on...

Please don't recommend anything like Naruto or anything that would follow that same mental age pattern. I am really moved when I have to waste every single brain cell in my head just to follow the plot or when the script really Innovates ( I LOVE FLCL FOR THAT FLCL RULES TOO!!!).
While I dont know any anime out there that are actually intelligent-themed (perhaps a philosophy/AI/psychology anime???), there are certainly a few that are themed intelligently.

The closest to what u are looking for is probably Junni Kokki and RahXephon.

p.s. LastEXILE wasn't that bad, I guess u hated it since the script doesn't innovate but to say that it sucks completely is a bit harsh.
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Old 2004-01-23, 05:05   Link #48
Iridi
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Perhaps anime isn't really for you...

Infinite Ryvius is one of the closest things to what you seem to desire, but it still lacks in a lot of areas (the bad guys are 600% worthless, for example)

Go rent Run Lola Run instead...
or Mulholland Drive
or The Unusual Suspects

I agree with the above poster and anyone else that claims that anime just doesn't have many ultra-powerful themes

Hikaru no Go was great, for example but goes about as deep as a kiddie pool
Ruroni Kenshin is one of the better overall ones, too (I haven't seen past episode 60ish, though), but it's really just a fighting anime set very well into its historical setting

I just think you're being too demanding of anime... some are great, few are deep

well, good luck...
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Old 2004-01-23, 09:03   Link #49
kujoe
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A fan of anime with intelligent themes? We seem to be a neglected breed, my friend. There are some out there that might interest you. Others have already mentioned these however. Here are some of my suggestions:

Rahxephon - Some claim that it's a rip-off of Eva, and I can't blame them. But it's more engaging in my opinion. I found it more engaging in an emotional level than Eva. It's not purely a mecha anime since there's sometimes more focus on the drama revolving around the characters. You be the judge. (Check out Eva as well. You might like it more than Rahxephon. Or you might like both of them.)

Juuni Kokki - This, you definitely have to at least check out! It's Oriental fantasy for the thinking viewer, in the sense that all its elements contribute to a fully realized world--infused with its own myths, ethos and lore. The writing is solid, and involves a female protagonist who's got none of that "I need a bodyguard" syndrome. This show sucks you in slowly, so you might want to watch until ep 8 or so before making your decision.

Now and Then, Here and There - Quite a surprising little gem. But it's one of those series that I found to be a one-shot deal. After watching the last ep, that was it. Still, I suggest you look up on this. Basically the story revolves around children caught in the sway of war and the will to survive.

Texhnolyze - The setting of the show is very suffocating all throughout--bleak and hopeless. I've only watched around 6 to 8 eps so I can't comment on the story yet, but so far I'm hooked. It's definitely well-made (a look on the members of the staff can convince you) but overall I think the show is an acquired taste. (I almost called it quits while watching the 1st episode...)

Gunslinger Girl - A show about young girls who are given a second chance in life in order to become efficient and cold-blooded killers for a top secret agency. That's the irony of it there. Sometimes the show becomes a very fleeting and poignant look at those things we take for granted.

Rurouni Kenshin OVA series - Don't need to elaborate I guess.

I think the problem with intelligent anime lies not in the lack of it, but lies on the fact that most anime are made for pure entertainment. Anime usually touches a lot on heavy themes, but more often than not, the way they're presented aims for a wide audience. Onegai Teacher for instance, gets a few plus pts. from me for the very fact that it touches on the idea of married life--where husband and wife are considered as two different individuals with separate, personal problems of their own. Now, that in itself is quite rare for anime in my opinion. In the end however, OT is simply a light-hearted shounen romance that may or may not appeal to the viewer.

But yeah...it's still preferable to balance what you watch. Sometimes, I'd rather go for a good laugh or an anime that you can simply sit back and enjoy.
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Old 2004-01-24, 19:27   Link #50
Aquillion
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Iridi, you're not being fair. 90% of anime is crap, yes, but 90% of everything is crap; and there certinally are some series that are more 'intellectual' then the majority of what you're likely to find on TV or in the movies no matter where you go. To go back over some of the series that have been mentioned:

Now and Then, Here and There
Kino no Tabi ~the beautiful world~
Infinite Ryvius
Lain
Graveyard of the Fireflies
Boogiepop Phantom
Texhnolyze
Haibane Renmei
Hundred Stories
Alien Nine
Gasaraki
Great Teacher Onizuka
Hitsuji no Uta
Kare Kano

...and most of these came out in the past ten years. That's a pretty good record by any standard.
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Old 2004-01-24, 22:37   Link #51
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sorry if somebody already suggested this (i was to lazy to read the whole post)
but Trigun and Outlaw Star are some pretty cool animes that kinda fit your preferences.
Outlaw Star can get a little childish at times but in a way so does Cowboy Bebop (Ed)
dont know if you can download them from this site though.
sorry

Hope you find some really good ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2004-01-24, 23:54   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenducky
sorry if somebody already suggested this (i was to lazy to read the whole post)
but Trigun and Outlaw Star are some pretty cool animes that kinda fit your preferences.
Outlaw Star can get a little childish at times but in a way so does Cowboy Bebop (Ed)
dont know if you can download them from this site though.
sorry

Hope you find some really good ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cowboy Beebop = Liscensed, and decently cheap to buy/rent.
Outlaw star = Most likely the same as CB.

Intelligent themed eh?... Narutaru. I'm still baffled by it .
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Old 2004-01-24, 23:59   Link #53
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RahXephon and Gasaraki are definetly some good thought-provoking(Or, at least, have a great story) ones.

Another that I'm surprised no one mentioned is Witch Hunter Robin. While it isn't exactly the most complex or really matured-themed anime, it's got a very good story and characters. The realistic color tones also add a much more interesting feel to it. Be warned though, the first 10 episodes are just "monster-of-the-week"s. After that though, the story gets infinetely better. Give it a shot. ^^
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Old 2004-01-25, 02:04   Link #54
Iridi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquillion
Iridi, you're not being fair. 90% of anime is crap, yes, but 90% of everything is crap; and there certinally are some series that are more 'intellectual' then the majority of what you're likely to find on TV or in the movies no matter where you go. To go back over some of the series that have been mentioned:
I am being a bit harsh...
I just feel that I have yet to see an anime that was as complex as nearly any high level movie I've seen.

Spiritually moving, one or two series
Emotionally enticing, aplenty
Historically intriguing, a few

So none have really been intellectually stimulating, except CB, but that only if you look past the simplicity and delve into the world itself by reading various websites about its mysteries. And IR made me wonder about human social interaction for a short time. But I have yet to see any anime that has caused me to sit for minutes or hours afterwards just pondering its hidden depths.

Perhaps I just need to broaden my anime horizons. I haven't seen most on your list...

But rereading the original post, he's not really asking for high integral calculus, just some of the more thought-provoking anime out there, so yes, I was being too harsh. Me is jaded, I guess...
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Old 2004-01-25, 19:02   Link #55
Aquillion
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You should definately watch Kino no Tabi at the very least, if you haven't already. That show is very intellectual. Of course, it's licensed and hasn't been released yet in the US, so you might have to wait to your hands on it legally; but fansubs do exist up to episode 5 or so, and are still being made (by an evil communist fansub group, no doubt.)
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Old 2004-01-25, 22:20   Link #56
JAppi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambda
Revolutionary Girl Utena,
I second that reccomendation

I also reccomend The Rose of Versailles and Galaxy Railways.
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Old 2004-02-01, 22:56   Link #57
kaevne
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yea rahxephon is one of the better thinking animes. Its like everything evangelion shoulda been. Better characters, better setting, greater comprehensibility, etcetc
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Old 2004-02-04, 17:33   Link #58
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I just wanted to say thankyou for this post. I try to follow only intelligent themed anime, and this post has given me alot of new names to look up. I would also like to say you should see Scrapped Princess, dont yell at me if somone else posted it though. Id have to say Wolf's rain, Bebop, and Texhnolyze rank up there with the best.
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Old 2004-02-08, 09:56   Link #59
kujoe
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I'm thankful for this post too. It prompted me to check out Hundred Stories and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it's actually pretty good. Another one that shouldn't be missed is Millenium Actress (licensed) which was directed by Satoshi Kon, who is also known for his work on Perfect Blue.

I have never seen any trailer nor have I ever read any reviews on this. I inserted this movie in the dvd player with only a short description of it in my mind. And despite all that, I can proudly say that those 1 hour and 30 minutes were definitely all worth it. This beautiful movie renewed my perception of the power of animation as a medium of profound storytelling and of art. It certainly made a lasting impression on me. You guys should check this out.
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Old 2004-02-08, 18:12   Link #60
Plastic
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Its not japanese (i think) but animation. Try Aeon Flux and that other Marvel-like Series that broadcasted M-TV some years ago with that green big-guy(not Hulk) with a mask and the leopard-queen and so on.
For today try Gilgamesh, yes there are many onee-chans and some daijoubous but its a nice anime at the same level as Hundred stories for me.
I also have to say like Aquillion said that Kino no tabi is something to make you think about ethics and philosophy of live.
PlanetEs and ..... mhh maybe i post some later if something more gets in my mind.

bye
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