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Old 2006-12-26, 06:57   Link #341
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost View Post
One must dig into Shinku's mind and try to understand her before proclaiming her to be selfish. All along, to her, the Rozen Maiden's are the epitome of... quality, is the only word I can find (IIRC, in Shinku's words it was "Ultimate"). In fact, they are just missing perfection by a step. Put yourself in her position. When you see this uncompleted doll, who you had teach how to walk, and she says she has become a Rozen Maiden and even show you her RM, what would you have to think? Even if the truth was before her eyes. Would it not be disbelief and shock and denial? "Here, much more this imperfect doll, having the same opportunity as me to be Alice?" It isnt pity. It's disbelief.

You cannot blame her for thinking that. See, its not because she wants to that she said that, not because she's doing it purposely; but it was because of that deep preconceived notion in her that RMs are near perfection; which we cant blame her for, because before Gin, that was the truth. That's why I cannot blame Shinku, as much as I cannot blame Gin.

That's why I can't understand all this Shinku bashing, which kinda irritates me.

I'm gonna take it out on Rozen.
there is always 2 sides of a story that i can understand ~ but to say it out loud for gin to hear is a big nono...shes being inconsiderate to gin (sure she might think its being inconsiderate to herself if she has to compete with gin (an uncomplete doll) for the alice spot but hell blame rozen for reviving gin...dont take you anger and disbelief out of her as it isnt her fault she has become accepted...blame the one who accepted her...
all im saying is that shinku's stuck up attitude stinks...thankgod she has changed from that since she met jun ~ by admitting she was wrong to call gin "junk" has been a big step for her development wise

i guess ouverture just brought out the bad side to shinku ~

the more i look at the rabbit the more i want to slap him
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Old 2006-12-26, 07:03   Link #342
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Quote:
all im saying is that shinku's stuck up attitude stinks...thankgod she has changed from that since she met jun
ditto n_n -Jun FTW
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Old 2006-12-26, 07:05   Link #343
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
ditto n_n -Jun FTW
Only Jun has that ability to change the stuck up attitude of dolls. Too bad to do that, he has to endure many lashing, slapping and shin kicks.
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Old 2006-12-26, 08:30   Link #344
orni-ed
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Shinku's done well, except for that "I pity you" talk in Suigintou's N-Field...

Did not like Souseiseki back there... Why engage someone who's obviously not ready to fight?

If Shinku didn't bad-mouth Gin, then Jun will have an additional doll with him... But no more screentime for megu...

Over all, Ouverture was a success, pretty much explained Gin's side of the story...
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Old 2006-12-26, 08:55   Link #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Over all, Ouverture was a success, pretty much explained Gin's side of the story...
Yup and it really showed the depth of Sui's character as she states her unwillingness to not fight just her twin, but all her sisters

If it was just about the Alice game then Sara for would be the best medium for Sou, she is clever, cool headed and respects the maiden's decision even if she doesn't agree with it. More importantly she doesn't seem to mind the Alice game at all, calmly pointing out that Shinku should deal with Gin now and helping her is strange

If Sara was Sou's medium in the S1 and S2 era I would have put my money on Sou... BTW even through Sou's actions in the OAV were so in character, I really hated the way she acted
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Old 2006-12-26, 10:35   Link #346
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^ Sou didnt even consider whether Gin was armed or not. All that counted for Sou was that Gin had the knowledge of the Game. Which she didnt at all, really, having just only heard the word "Alice Game" a few minutes ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dk
(1) but to say it out loud for gin to hear is a big nono...shes being inconsiderate to gin (sure she might think its being inconsiderate to herself if she has to compete with gin (an uncomplete doll) for the alice spot but hell blame rozen for reviving gin...dont take you anger and disbelief out of her as it isnt her fault she has become accepted...blame the one who accepted her...

(2) all im saying is that shinku's stuck up attitude stinks...
(1) And what I'm saying is that she did that inconsiderate thing out of disbelief, thru no fault of her own.

(2) I dont disagree. The attitude isnt nice. And it isnt the whole of Shinku. And yes, it's good that she apologised to Gin. Becoming "Junk" herself in S1 ep 12 must have really hit Shinku; given her a reality check.

I just wanna add my last 2 cents: Shinku wasnt right to lie to Gin, even if she wanted to protect Gin and let her be as happy as possible without Father - there, I think, Shinku made a miscalculation: Gin would never be happy without Father. But it was made without bad motive, at least.

Anyhow, too bad Shinku thought that of her; too bad Gin followed Shinku into Sou's field; too bad Shinku's notions of the superiority of Rozen Maidens led her to outcasting Gin; and too bad Gin imputed wrong motives to Shinku.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mincemaker View Post
Too bad to do that, he has to endure many lashing, slapping and shin kicks.
All for the worthier cause, my friend, all for the worthier cause.

Sigh. Its tragic to think of Shinku and Suigintou, once sharing cookies over cups of tea. Hmm. I've got a new resolution for S3, or at least, the ultimate, final, end of RM (if there will ever be one). Yes, I want to at least see Shinku and Gin laughing like age-old friends over their tea cups.

One scene really gets me.. the scene where they show Shinku's shoes and then Gin's. The rose that is atop them look so similar, yet still different. It really made me think that those two are two sides of the same coin.. As if they were manufactured opposite - by design? Maybe those two are destined to be Alice.. together.

Wow, so it really seems that Laplace is the controller of how the Alice Game runs, somewhat like a moderator? He has the power (And authority?) to stop the Alice Game, and proclaim it limits, as far as time is concerned. Maybe applying this new knowledge to what we were discussing about the real-life Laplace's Demon can get us somewhere in our speculations.
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Old 2006-12-26, 11:24   Link #347
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Ginsama teramoesu-.

Now if only we can see Kirakishou enter the stage...
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Old 2006-12-26, 11:27   Link #348
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Yeah i'd like to see what Kira is like i mean personality
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Old 2006-12-26, 12:27   Link #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiseiseki View Post
My theory on Rozen's actions:

He created each of the Rozen Maiden with a flaw that they have to overcome to become Alice. Shinku is a snob because she believes Father seemed to show favoritism to her by giving her a pendant. Souseiseki is blinded by her loyalty (she always wants to play the Alice game at every opportunity). Suiseiseki is... she's love, but she's hides her true feelings by lying (sorry I can't think of anything else). Hinaichigo hates responsibility. Kanaria believes she's the smartest of the dolls when in fact she's not the smartest. Kirakishou is simply insane (OMG! Is there hope for Kira? No).
7 Rozen Maidens = 7 Sins

Suigintou = Envy
Kanaria = Greed
Desu = Sloth
Sou = Lust
Shinku = Pride
Hinaichigo = Gluttony
Kira = Vengence
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Old 2006-12-26, 12:58   Link #350
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
7 Rozen Maidens = 7 Sins

Suigintou = Envy
Kanaria = Greed
Desu = Sloth
Sou = Lust
Shinku = Pride
Hinaichigo = Gluttony
Kira = Vengence
Wouldn't Desu be lust because she is lusting for Jun's attention?
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Old 2006-12-26, 13:03   Link #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Wouldn't Desu be lust because she is lusting for Jun's attention?

I put Sou for Lust, since she seems to be the most willing to go the extreme for "Father."

Funny thing is Sou looks like a little boy and all her pervious masters that we seen are old man
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Old 2006-12-26, 13:05   Link #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Wouldn't Desu be lust because she is lusting for Jun's attention?
I think that is more from circumstance than any in-built personality trait... On the other hand she probably would avoid doing thing no matter where she is...
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Old 2006-12-26, 13:06   Link #353
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost View Post
Wow, so it really seems that Laplace is the controller of how the Alice Game runs, somewhat like a moderator? He has the power (And authority?) to stop the Alice Game, and proclaim it limits, as far as time is concerned. Maybe applying this new knowledge to what we were discussing about the real-life Laplace's Demon can get us somewhere in our speculations.
Thats a really good point, also it seems he has been hanging out with his bum chum Enju for a fair while too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
7 Rozen Maidens = 7 Sins

Suigintou = Envy
Kanaria = Greed
Desu = Sloth
Sou = Lust
Shinku = Pride
Hinaichigo = Gluttony
Kira = Vengence
This was done a while back, and each time everyone puts Hina down as the glutton, but she doesn't act like one. She does go one about her favorite foods which is normally mr flower topped ham burger and unyuu's, but thats it. The only scene where gluttony was involved was Stair Wars at the bottom of the stairs... And then she wasn't pigging out either. Hina was/is childish, but that ain't no sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWish View Post
I think that is more from circumstance than any in-built personality trait... On the other hand she probably would avoid doing thing no matter where she is...
But which trait would you put her under? Personally I would not go for Sloth as she is always pretty energetic when it comes to picking on Jun and Hina

Thinking about it, the maidens are far too complicated to categorize into the 7 sins
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Old 2006-12-26, 18:33   Link #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost View Post
Anyhow, too bad Shinku thought that of her; too bad Gin followed Shinku into Sou's field; too bad Shinku's notions of the superiority of Rozen Maidens led her to outcasting Gin; and too bad Gin imputed wrong motives to Shinku.


All for the worthier cause, my friend, all for the worthier cause.

Sigh. Its tragic to think of Shinku and Suigintou, once sharing cookies over cups of tea. Hmm. I've got a new resolution for S3, or at least, the ultimate, final, end of RM (if there will ever be one). Yes, I want to at least see Shinku and Gin laughing like age-old friends over their tea cups.

Wow, so it really seems that Laplace is the controller of how the Alice Game runs, somewhat like a moderator? He has the power (And authority?) to stop the Alice Game, and proclaim it limits, as far as time is concerned. Maybe applying this new knowledge to what we were discussing about the real-life Laplace's Demon can get us somewhere in our speculations.
yep it was a series of unfortunate events >.< i bet everyone played right into rozen's hands ~ as it it was almost written as a script T_T dam you!

yep that scene touched me too best bit was when gin sama poured tea for shinku and she actually thought it was good tea O.o (thats a first lol) oh and that cookie she gave gin ^_^ how sweet ~

the bastard bunny? yep to me he seems more like the overseer of things and keeps the rules in check ~ but i still cant get rid of his evil image inside me >.<
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Old 2006-12-26, 18:52   Link #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
the bastard bunny? yep to me he seems more like the overseer of things and keeps the rules in check ~ but i still cant get rid of his evil image inside me >.<
Because rabbits are evil.
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Old 2006-12-26, 18:58   Link #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathjkillz
the bastard bunny? yep to me he seems more like the overseer of things and keeps the rules in check ~ but i still cant get rid of his evil image inside me >.<
Don't kill the messenger.
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Old 2006-12-26, 21:24   Link #357
blitz1/2
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We should stop the Shinku-bashing because if she didn't do that, how could we have the Gin right now.

If Shinku was nice, polite and was able to keep Gin kind and loving, it would mean double trouble for Shinku. (Kira stalks Gin while she stalks Shinku. So Shinku would already have her hands full looking after 2 sisters and there would be no Alice game since the others are mostly pacifists except for Souseiseki and porbably Kanaria)
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Old 2006-12-26, 22:21   Link #358
Arimfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost View Post
Yes, this is set before Bara gets revealed to them. So somewhere in between the end of S1 and the start of S2 should be an accurate guess.

If we want accuracy we can can use Kanaria's numbered attempt at invading the Sakurada house.


Anyway *does no longer care the slightest about Shinku*

*is in Gin-sama's camp*
Long live Gin-sama!
*celebrates overture*
*Will always be in Gin-sama's camp*T_T

+_+ ..must...obey ..Gin-sama...
If Gin-sama hates roses Then I have to hate Roses too! T_T
It can't be any different me after all!!! +_+

*goes out to slaughter random red roses*

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaNeko View Post
After watching this special, which I quite enjoyed, my feelings for STINKU can only be summarized by this one picture alone.

Spoiler:
TamaNeko

AndFlo

That said, I was left with mixed feelings about Shinku. Firstly I'm glad it was she who took care of Gin. Seeing the innocent Gin and how she learned to walk and make tea melted me beyond the standard moe. T_T
Who knows what kind of horror would ensue if it was Souseiseki, Barasuishou or Kirakishou instead....T_T or *gasp* the bunny guy T_T
I'd feel like having a baby sibling thrown away to be raised by a lvl99 evil hellspawn from some random game.T_T

But then...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
I still can't stand Shinku's snobbish mannerisms and attitude towards other dolls.
*agrees*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
as a 100% devoted fan of gin sama those pics touch me so ^_^ totally 180 personality change and its always nice to see both sides...if i were rozen ~ no actually if i were rozen ill probably be killed from mistreating her so ill be myself and give her a big hug ^_^ *hugs*

moe meter!? through the roof!

@solwyvern ~ rozen is evil! that could very well be true...he enjoys seeing the dolls fight each other and in the end gains alice after all his fun ~ and the rabbit is his bum buddy
*agrees*
And if I were Rozen....T_T
I'd commission the KKR club to kill myself in the most horrible way imaginable...
I'd give them a 10K GET thread to discuss it...T_T

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Shinku could've tried Pulling Gin out of the N-Field, trying to save her...nee. She just silently watched as Souseiseki Sliced Gin rather than pulling her out from certain danger, and to think Gin saved her from Barasuishou!
*agrees*
Gin-sama is made of something special. Highlighted when she took Barasuishou's hit covering Shinku.
Shinku lacks that special something.

Sum of scene 11min. in eps2:
Gin-sama reveals herself, pleading to Souseiseki.
Shinku stands still, telling Gin to stay away.
Souseiseki points weapon. T_T
Shinku stands still. Tells Souseiseki to stop.
Souseiseki attacks. T_T
Shinku stands still. Tells Gin to run away. <-Amazing isn't it? Poor girl can barely walk and she's expected outrun a *beeeeping* pair of flying scissors...
.... T_T
Gin screams in pain.
Shinku stands still.
Shinku chats with Souseiseki, looking pitifully at Gin while she's in pain.
Shinku fills Souseiseki in on how Gin is a failure...T_T
Screams of pain
Still standing still
Shinku comments on how Gin's love for her father, which gave her the energy, someday would disappear anyway....T_T
Shinku finally walks some 20 steps toward Gin. Commenting on how Gin should just have been content with being Sara's doll. T_T Blaming Gin for having followed her. Informing her on how she's now dead.
Gin reaches out for her. Pleading Shinku to save her.
The two stand still. Shinku looks away as Gin disappears.
The two starts chatting. T_T
...end.

T_T


Needless to say, once she earns my grudge, I'll NEVER forgive.

I'd post a WTF pic that would put even Flo to shame, but I don't have enough skillz T_T

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
shinku was also selfish for being shocked at gin recieving a roza mystica from rozen...but how is it impossible? the proof is right in front of her eyes...the best thing to do would to accept a challenge and fight it over...that way it would have showed that shinku respected gin as a rozen maiden...but well as you can see she still has the image of gin being "less fortunate" than her being not complete...but who cares? gin isnt going to be ashamed of herself because she isnt complete all she wants is to meet rozen...
*agrees*
Gin wasn't even challenging her. She just wanted a little acceptance as a Rozen Maiden, and Shinku couldn't even allow her one single tiny bit of that pride. T_T

Obviously second rate dolls and second rate RMysticas can't ever deserve to meet dear daddy. T_T


*goes off to make sure red roses become extinct*
Genocide FTW! T_T

AFTER ALL!!! T_T


and then Souseiseki.....I won't ever forgive what happened.....T_T
I used to hold her dedication with respect almost as high as Desu, but what happened was pretty *beeepy* and those days are OVER.
*goes to rewatch episode of Soueiseki getting p0wned by Gin-sama*
...
...

..
.
T_T
*Still isn't satisfied*

Souseiseki that *beeeep* *beeping* *beeeEEEEEEEep* of a *beeepING* **beeeephole* from *beeeEEEEEPPPP* *beeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP*

I have halfheartedly tried to see her POV. But really, what is the difference between Desu and the innocent Gin? FFS!!!! Gin was pleading her not to hurt Shinku....exactly what Desu would do. Gin is her sister....exactly like Desu is (except for the twin concept). Despite that she still kills her off without second thought....
WHAT?WHY? Why can't she hold back a *beeeping* second and realize innocent Gin isn't all that different from Desu? Was Gin a threat? WTF? Poor girl was barely able to stand while clinging onto that pillar. Was she afraid that Gin would suddenly burst out from that weak facade to ambush her? WTF? That level of diplomacy would make even the nanoha girls look gdhighlvl saintly.

*Disagrees with anyone who thought Souseiseki was reasonable*
HATE! ME HATE!
*hates*

Rozen treats Gin like a pile of *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*
Shinku her sister looks down on her.
And that *beeeping*BEEEEPP* of a "sister" kills her after a single minute of introduction.
The 1 million $ question: Where is the justice for innocent Gin?

With these 2 eps it suddenly feels naturally obvious to me why she came to care so much for Megu. Gin is really a good, loving and caring person from start. She just needed someone to love and protect her...
At least she got Megu in S2 T_T


....not forgive Souseiseki.....not forgive.......(yes, yes, that's quite a love you have for your daddy there).....But I will NEVER forgive........T_T

And that's MY Bottom Line! ™Flo

Last edited by Arimfe; 2006-12-26 at 23:00.
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Old 2006-12-26, 23:29   Link #359
blitz1/2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arimfe View Post

If we want accuracy we can can use Kanaria's numbered attempt at invading the Sakurada house.


Anyway *does no longer care the slightest about Shinku*

*is in Gin-sama's camp*
Long live Gin-sama!
*celebrates overture*
*Will always be in Gin-sama's camp*T_T

+_+ ..must...obey ..Gin-sama...
If Gin-sama hates roses Then I have to hate Roses too! T_T
It can't be any different me after all!!! +_+

*goes out to slaughter random red roses*


TamaNeko

AndFlo

That said, I was left with mixed feelings about Shinku. Firstly I'm glad it was she who took care of Gin. Seeing the innocent Gin and how she learned to walk and make tea melted me beyond the standard moe. T_T
Who knows what kind of horror would ensue if it was Souseiseki, Barasuishou or Kirakishou instead....T_T or *gasp* the bunny guy T_T
I'd feel like having a baby sibling thrown away to be raised by a lvl99 evil hellspawn from some random game.T_T

But then...
*agrees*
*agrees*
And if I were Rozen....T_T
I'd commission the KKR club to kill myself in the most horrible way imaginable...
I'd give them a 10K GET thread to discuss it...T_T


*agrees*
Gin-sama is made of something special. Highlighted when she took Barasuishou's hit covering Shinku.
Shinku lacks that special something.

Sum of scene 11min. in eps2:
Gin-sama reveals herself, pleading to Souseiseki.
Shinku stands still, telling Gin to stay away.
Souseiseki points weapon. T_T
Shinku stands still. Tells Souseiseki to stop.
Souseiseki attacks. T_T
Shinku stands still. Tells Gin to run away. <-Amazing isn't it? Poor girl can barely walk and she's expected outrun a *beeeeping* pair of flying scissors...
.... T_T
Gin screams in pain.
Shinku stands still.
Shinku chats with Souseiseki, looking pitifully at Gin while she's in pain.
Shinku fills Souseiseki in on how Gin is a failure...T_T
Screams of pain
Still standing still
Shinku comments on how Gin's love for her father, which gave her the energy, someday would disappear anyway....T_T
Shinku finally walks some 20 steps toward Gin. Commenting on how Gin should just have been content with being Sara's doll. T_T Blaming Gin for having followed her. Informing her on how she's now dead.
Gin reaches out for her. Pleading Shinku to save her.
The two stand still. Shinku looks away as Gin disappears.
The two starts chatting. T_T
...end.

T_T


Needless to say, once she earns my grudge, I'll NEVER forgive.

I'd post a WTF pic that would put even Flo to shame, but I don't have enough skillz T_T

*agrees*
Gin wasn't even challenging her. She just wanted a little acceptance as a Rozen Maiden, and Shinku couldn't even allow her one single tiny bit of that pride. T_T

Obviously second rate dolls and second rate RMysticas can't ever deserve to meet dear daddy. T_T


*goes off to make sure red roses become extinct*
Genocide FTW! T_T

AFTER ALL!!! T_T


and then Souseiseki.....I won't ever forgive what happened.....T_T
I used to hold her dedication with respect almost as high as Desu, but what happened was pretty *beeepy* and those days are OVER.
*goes to rewatch episode of Soueiseki getting p0wned by Gin-sama*
...
...

..
.
T_T
*Still isn't satisfied*

Souseiseki that *beeeep* *beeping* *beeeEEEEEEEep* of a *beeepING* **beeeephole* from *beeeEEEEEPPPP* *beeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP*

I have halfheartedly tried to see her POV. But really, what is the difference between Desu and the innocent Gin? FFS!!!! Gin was pleading her not to hurt Shinku....exactly what Desu would do. Gin is her sister....exactly like Desu is (except for the twin concept). Despite that she still kills her off without second thought....
WHAT?WHY? Why can't she hold back a *beeeping* second and realize innocent Gin isn't all that different from Desu? Was Gin a threat? WTF? Poor girl was barely able to stand while clinging onto that pillar. Was she afraid that Gin would suddenly burst out from that weak facade to ambush her? WTF? That level of diplomacy would make even the nanoha girls look gdhighlvl saintly.

*Disagrees with anyone who thought Souseiseki was reasonable*
HATE! ME HATE!
*hates*

Rozen treats Gin like a pile of *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*
Shinku her sister looks down on her.
And that *beeeping*BEEEEPP* of a "sister" kills her after a single minute of introduction.
The 1 million $ question: Where is the justice for innocent Gin?

With these 2 eps it suddenly feels naturally obvious to me why she came to care so much for Megu. Gin is really a good, loving and caring person from start. She just needed someone to love and protect her...
At least she got Megu in S2 T_T


....not forgive Souseiseki.....not forgive.......(yes, yes, that's quite a love you have for your daddy there).....But I will NEVER forgive........T_T

And that's MY Bottom Line! ™Flo
You can kill red roses for all you want. But if you and your Gin-fans even touch Kira's white roses then we'll take that as a declaration of war.
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hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.
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Old 2006-12-26, 23:34   Link #360
Arimfe
SharpenerOfTheBoxcutter
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: where Grudge is Greatest, Rancour Endless and Malice Eternal(at school^^;;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
You can kill red roses for all you want. But if you and your Gin-fans even touch Kira's white roses then we'll take that as a declaration of war.
Then war it is T_T
I won't ever allow the slightest chance for something to ever mutate into something that disgusting...T_T

*continues genocide of roses*
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