Ever17 -The Out of Infinity-

[luckyovermind]

They do, actually.

[kgptzac]

the good endings are named something like "Takeshi- Tsugumi 7th day", the bad endings are named just with the words "bad ending" in it. and yes... it is very important to "save system data" in the end.

http://anime.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=3279

First of all... i think they spelled 12Riven wrongly... it is supposed to be 12Riven - the Psycliminal of Integral... Yes.... the "Psy" part is denoted with the uppercase Greek letter. This title could be a much more successful release if KID would learn from the mistake they've made in Remember 11... anyhow, when i first got on the official site, the drawing style looks really 'modern' to me and is on a higher level than E17 and R11. R11's style I think is a bit... well, canvas or w/e, and still, with the problem of some male characters look overly feminine =.=|| for R11 i've been guessing Uni's gender for like a long time until i see the character setting on the visual fan book... that's a funny stuff but yes, i had no trouble of identifying main characters' genders for 12Riven. +1 for KID

Another weird thing about 12Riven is the official website had been displaying different set of characters... after an update the 2 out of 3 characters were replace by 2 new characters.

Spoiler for the following content has spoiler for r11/e17/n7:

I've been reading study threads over the internet and found that it is like 5+ times harder to comprehend the plot of Remember 11 and its underlying meaning... there is a sheer number of 29 bad endings... compare to Ever 17, Remember 11 is more like a puzzle while Ever 17 is like a novel's timeline been cut off and scrambled. Of course, the biggest problem for r11 is that people don't get it after finishing it; that was reflected on the number of sales in Japan and further hindered the possibility of getting on PC and translated. But after playing N7 and E11, I'm just dying to see another title with the concept of Cure Syndrome in it... and i guess it's probably only the hardcore fans of the Infinity Series would give a positive feedback for R11.

I think e17 has a rather straight forward plot and relatively small number of unsolved mysteries that are being left for debate. Never 7, the first installment of the Infinity Series, does make the player think--but the thinking is not necessary. After all, N7 is almost a full galgame, with its purpose/achievement is to get the girl you like. The Cure/philosophical part is being kept at minimun and only surfaces in the end... and it ended rather suddenly and gives the player two choice: believe in everything that happened as truth or believe everything has happened as a dream/illusion... and both endings are equally valid to explain what Cure is. Unfortunately, it does not give the players the time to think through both endings since... well, the game ended.

dispite the ugly pictures in N7, it can be said is a closer relative to the idea of Cure Syndrome than E17. And the Cure Syndrome is something that is revolutionary in the field of AVG or the entire game industry (which is precisely what you would feel after playing R11). Ever 17 is not really a galgame imo, because the mystery and suspense is built up from the first loop to the last one. And unlike N7, E17 has a more concrete main story line (thus a better 'final' ending), and leads players gradually into the idea of the Third Perspective. It made sure that players understand what the plot is all about--an observation of past and deception for the future. This time, the Infinity Loop is being shelled with a more pseudo-scientific explaination of a 4th dimensional being travels throughs different worlds. and be honest, as a beginner once i was, getting into e17 is better than start with n7. I'm pretty sure E17 had the best sales globally than N7. In the end, E17 can be explained almost completely without getting into triggering a Cure phenomenon.

Remember 11 is different, totally different. It can't even be called a galgame because romance does not exist in the game as it usualy does in other galgames and E17, N7. R11 is more like a mystery/sci-fi/adventure with a heavy flavor of Cure being used in a widely accepted, unacceptable way. Two stages in R11 including 4 people in an emergency shelter room off in a giant blizzard after a plane crash, an isolation complex with the mentally ill off in an island with no way out. There isn't much room for romance, and there was none. Depressing, was what i feel after finished watching Kokoro's path. From day 1 the survivors experienced constant hardship. The food is scarce, the fuel for fire is running out, and the dangerous mental decay of the members are very succesffully portraited in Kokoro's path. And since it also involving Kokoro (Female lead, in the emergency shelter) and Satoru (male lead, in SPHIA, the isolation complex), actually exchanging personalities/minds. A glance in SPHIA is no less distressing. A killer DID loli who slaughtered 2x patients in a hospital resides with three other relatively more normal individuals. The problem is that somebody wants Satoru dead, and while Kokoro's mind is in Satoru's body, she feels no less in danger than the sitaution back to the wooden cabin of the emergency shelter.

E17 and N7 aren't like that. Both games have a relatively calm and fun beginning of each scenario and danger only comes in form of short bursts, except the ending. So the player actually can relax after a crisis and have time to recover and think about it. R11 throws you into the dire situation from the beginning where in the shelter, outside is the fatally cold snow and wind while inside is gradually running out life support. Maybe if R11 had some more lighthearted scenes to work up the atompshere better, the sale could have been better.

Spoiler for r11 mega spoiler:

By no means that R11's story is less thrilling and mind-refreshing than previous works. After one finishes up (and was able to endure) Kokoro's path, nothing is solved and more mysteries surfaced... the only 'good' thing happened probably because that the people gotten out of the damn place safely. In Satoru's path, the qusetions are being answered (at least i heard it is) that actually there's a third place/time exactly in the middle of the place/time of which is shown in Kokoro's perspective... The truth behind Hotori's Dissociative Identity Disorder, another pair of mind-swapping trinity, Uni's appearance in both locations, and the grand scheme of locking Self, the 0th dimension entity, much like the BW we know, into an infinity loop that it can never escape.

if sure of course sound very exciting, but in order to get the answers of everything possible, only finishing the good ending is not enough... the bad endings are neccesary to figure out what's really going on. The whole process of course include deceiving the players like in E17, and it was because of the deception there are more deceptions being made. the "mistakenly observed" that could probably explain Ryogo's memory loss in E17 is being overused in a way that defies common sense here in R11. If E17 is about one causality paradox, R11 has like 3+ major paradosis intertwined with theory of quantum teleportation, physical and chronological teleportation of a radius area, Carl Jung psychology, and ... Self.

In any form, R11 is an extreme. It could have been better made into a less mind-crazing and more subtle of expressing the idea of Cure and the subjective interpretation of the world. R11 determined the end of the Infinity Series and probably the end of the Loop Makers themselves.

Although other series of KID seem to have a better sale than Infinity, n7/e17/r11 have educated otakus and probably drawn a population that would normally not touch galgames at all to play, discuss the game and then looking over wikipedia for things like wavefunction collapse, schrodinger's cat, 4th dimension etc. although i don't know the Integral can outshine what is already there... I don't know if it will have anything to do with Cure, deceptive observation and the surreal sense of role-play that Infinity has to offer, but at least we can hope... hope for that somebody in the near future will revive KID or at least put out 12Riven into the market.

edit: some links:

official 12r http://www.kid-game.co.jp/12r/top.html
infinity series http://kid.kir.jp/kid/game/game_galk...dex/index.html

[Wolfen]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

the good endings are named something like "Takeshi- Tsugumi 7th day", the bad endings are named just with the words "bad ending" in it. and yes... it is very important to "save system data" in the end.

I feel a bit stupid now...

When I first finished the Takeshi arcs I checked the shortcut menu and saw the first column filled in with the progressive saves for each day, followed by the second column with just the single bad ending, and assumed for some bizarre reason that the first and third columns would be Takeshi and Kid's arc shortcuts respectively with the various endings in the centre column. Thanks for pointing that out.

I plead extreme lack of sleep and emotional trauma...

Despite the many spelling mistakes, apparent search-and-replace errors and strange grammar I am enjoying the game a lot. Kid's arc's are definitely easier to take, imho, and provide a lot of info that seems to be leading up to the revelations in the Coco arc.

It really is a shame that KID folded, I hope that 12Riven eventually makes it onto the market.

Wolfen.

[martino]

Originally Posted by luckyovermind

They do, actually.

Sorry. I got mixed up there. My Tsugumi's good end didn't show up, and I finished it and watched through the credits. I can only see the bad ending shortcut in there...

Spoiler for for save screen:

[luckyovermind]

As kgptzac stated previously, that "May 7th Tsugumi Version" IS the good ending...

[martino]

Stupid me... *hits his head*

I'll try to remember that, since I'll probably come here asking again. lol

[randomshinichi]

This is my first time playing through the game, and I think I'm getting close to Tsugumi's good ending.

But first, that scene in the 5th day, after Kid gets fed up with eating sandwiches, Takeshi reprimands him, and afterwards Tsugumi calls him a hypocrite and somehow proves to him that saying 'it's better to just live' is... uh, irresponsible.

How is that even wrong? Is this one of those 'no correct answer' questions? If so, why does Takeshi spend so much time sitting in the jellyfish alone thinking this over, concluding that he's actually wrong and finally apologize to the crew?

Have I missed something here?

[Supergrunch]

Originally Posted by randomshinichi

This is my first time playing through the game, and I think I'm getting close to Tsugumi's good ending.

But first, that scene in the 5th day, after Kid gets fed up with eating sandwiches, Takeshi reprimands him, and afterwards Tsugumi calls him a hypocrite and somehow proves to him that saying 'it's better to just live' is... uh, irresponsible.

How is that even wrong? Is this one of those 'no correct answer' questions? If so, why does Takeshi spend so much time sitting in the jellyfish alone thinking this over, concluding that he's actually wrong and finally apologize to the crew?

Have I missed something here?

I think to get Tsugumi's good ending, the correct choice is to hit the kid, but it isn't absolutely necessary.

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by randomshinichi

But first, that scene in the 5th day, after Kid gets fed up with eating sandwiches, Takeshi reprimands him, and afterwards Tsugumi calls him a hypocrite and somehow proves to him that saying 'it's better to just live' is... uh, irresponsible.

How is that even wrong? Is this one of those 'no correct answer' questions? If so, why does Takeshi spend so much time sitting in the jellyfish alone thinking this over, concluding that he's actually wrong and finally apologize to the crew?

Tsugumi is getting at: Just being alive isn't all there is. The quality of that life counts too. "At least you're alive" is not an uplifting thing to say to someone who suffers every moment of that life.

Once you're told of Tsugumi's story, you can see where she's comming from.

[randomshinichi]

Well it is much more clearer when you explain it. Although I do see where she's coming from, I don't see why she has to make a really huge fuss about it.

After all, everybody knows that life can be good, but they're not sure that death can be good, so they all try to stay alive. She should know that life could take an upturn too.

Whatever.

[kgptzac]

Tsugumi is all normal but only emo in front of a man like Takeshi

and i came across a strange-looking fan fiction for Ever17... The plot is rather interesting... it's a mix, actually.

Early afternoon, May 1st, 2017

The film started to roll. On the screen was a perspective of a deserted corridor. The camera jogged up and down as the person trolled. Start from an elevator hall, nobody was seen. Occasionally some paper, trash, hats appeared on the floor which proved there were people not long ago here enjoying the scenery.
Maybe the word ‘film’ isn’t the most fitting in this situation. The person’s feeling was direction burnt to my head as it actually happened to me. He was confused, but grew calmer as he walked along the corridor. Nobody was there to stop him. A surreal sensation was sparked in his heart. Some kind of ultimate liberation was emerged from the horrid scene of the empty building.
The person reached the a recreational place with flowerbeds and benches. More trashes are on the ground, wrappers, hotdog remains, even bags and purses…

“Isn’t anyone there?”
“What? Is anybody there?”
“So I’m alone… hee hee hee.”
“Ah, ha, ha, ha ,ha.”

Wicked. He’s gone crazy. A hysterical laugh can probably scare tigers away. Suddenly the camera shook in a violent manner. The person started to run… toward a pool! Splash~ he jumped.
Then a stage of decoherency occurred. The jumper felt tranquil all of a sudden as his body sank deeper and deeper.

I trembled awake from the vivid ‘dream’. Someone was slapping me in the face. I coughed out some water and opened my eyes. A girl in employee dress was above me. Seeing me regain conscious, she stopped her brutal action.
“Hey, you alright?” Her lips moved like the eye of a storm. “What the heck are you doing here?”
I had no idea who she is, so I asked her back. “Who are you?”
“That’s not important right now… answer me first, what were you doing in the pool?”

Startled, I tried to remember. Yes, it was the ‘dream’ I had where ‘I’ jumped into the pool… so it wasn’t a dream? A sharp pain came across when I tried to remember anything happened before. I couldn’t tell her the ‘dream’ I saw… maybe because I didn’t consider it real… or perhaps I would be scared of myself if I acknowledge that, I indeed jumped into the pond. All I did was just shaking my head.
“I don’t know… I can’t remember.” It was the truth; I couldn’t remember what made me do what I did and where am I.
“Hmm? Are you high or something?” She’s now more confused than ever. “I don’t know what’s the matter with you… You passed out near the Gift Shop, a guy and I hauled you to the infirmary. The nurses were supposed to be there… Anyway it was crazy; there was a black out, then the alarm rang. Everybody was scared, and later an evacuation was broadcasted in the complex. I rushed back and saw you were still sleeping. Then I went to check with my colleagues, who were being evacuated also. Anyway… you weren’t in the Infirmary when I got back. I thought I heard someone was running in the emergency corridor… I dunno who the heck would that be and so I went on checking the entire second floor.”
Short on breath, the girl paused and inhaled.
“Nobody was on the second floor, so I went to the third floor. I head a big ‘pong!’ in this area. I came running and saw you were in the water!” She stared at me. “Does it ring a bell? What were you doing when I was gone?”
“I don’t know…” The only thing I understood was that she thinks I jumped into the pool myself.
“Arghhh” She closed her eyes. The red on her face while she spoke faded. “Well, at least you should thank me.” She said, pointing to the center square of the Rest Area. A big metal panel covered the entire area where there used to be a pond, according to my ‘dream’. “You would have been drown if I didn’t push you out of the water.”
“Th-thank you…” I gave up thinking. Evacuation… what the heck? It didn’t help except causing me the big headache. I just sat there in silent. “What’s your name?” The girl asked.

“Oh, my name is…” Something. My name is something. Why I can’t say my name out loud? Because I didn’t know; I forgot what my name is.
I told her that I couldn’t remember. Recalling my own name became a source of overwhelming headache. She was beyond surprised when I said that and looking at me like I was from Mars. Then she asked where I lived or my phone number. Of course, I didn’t have memory of those either. Though I did remember the date: May 1st—but not the year.
She sighed and stood up. I then noticed that both of us were soaked with water. “You are sicker than I thought, kid. Let’s go to the Infirmary to get something for your headache.” … She must have seen me pressing my temple when she asked me questions.

“What’s your name?” I asked, finally, on the way up to the Infirmary. She seemed to be taller that me; so I figure she’s older.
“I am You.” She grinned.
“Huh??” I didn’t get it. Her face had a mysterious look under the reddish hue illuminated by the lights in the narrow emergency corridor. She is me?
“My name is Takana You.” She explained. “Takana as the family name, and my given name is way too long, so I let other people call me ‘You’.”

We climbed the emergency stairs since the elevators were broken. The situation looked the same as in my ‘dream’. We were in a large complex which I have no idea what it was. The headache of mine got worse after some walking and it pretty much blocked whatever constructive in my mind, thus I just followed her into this big room of white. She told me to lie down on a bed; I complied. After ingested the two pills she handed to me, I dozed off. Only this time, it’s in the world of white light opposed to pitch black.

The white light persisted. Suddenly I was looking at a multi-screen console. The displays were flashing among different video sources… except one. Without noticing, I focused on that monitor. It looked very recognizable, a big examination table, two beds… white walls and floor. On the first bed, a person lay awake. He rolled to his left and I couldn’t catch his face.
Then I realized the camera was set on the Infirmary. I fell asleep on the bed; I was sure. Then what is this? I’m spying on myself? Sensing the irregularity, I tried to look around my surroundings. At that instance, a figure suddenly appeared on the monitor. I immediately recognized the woman to be You. Her uniform stood out a from a hundred of people.
“What are you doing? This is not the time for sleeping!” She shouted. Through a speaker I heard, of course. “Hurry up, let’s go!” She ran over to the patient and peeled his blanket away.
“What’s the matter…?” A young voice said, it was the guy in bed. It wasn’t me that on the screen. I couldn’t see his face clearly but I knew it wasn’t me. Why? Well… because You didn’t wake me up like that in the Infirmary.
“We got to escape!”
“Escape… to where?”
“Where do you think? Insel Null of course.”
The young man hurriedly got out of bed and ran out of the camera range with You. I did something with my hand and the screen suddenly changed where You and the guy sprinting through the corridor. They stopped at the elevator hall, paused, and disappeared into a small door; from the pixels I saw the label: Emergency Stairs.

Somehow I felt irritated. My throat was thirsty so I stood up. A strange feeling arose; I saw where I was. A room equally shiny like in the Infirmary, just with a lot of computers and screens. There was nobody else, just me. Normally I would have a good look at this place which I suddenly ended up… but the cup seemed to be my only objective. I picked it up and drank the liquid inside it. It was something bitter; instinct told me it was green tea.
Maybe I was worried about You and the guy on the screen, I went back to my seat. With two or three fast clicks, the camera changed. In a narrow corridor which I was pretty sure You and I walked earlier, the girl and the other guy was doing something to a closed door. They took turn to work on the… door handle, but apparently they weren’t able to open it.
Just then, a silent beep caught my attention. A smaller screen my hand was a construction map of something… this complex I assumed. The map focused on a long and narrow rectangle and two dots flashed by a red square. I figured it must be You and the guy trying to open that door thus they appeared to be stopped. On the other side of the long rectangle, a red warning box was flashing along. I quickly detected that a blue bar was filling the rectangle, or the emergency corridor for You. Blue bar… what does the blue bar mean…?
Water.
Horror crept up my spine. I turned my head back to the monitor, looking for You. She and the guy stopped trying to open the door and just stood there. There was no audio signal this time, but they were talking about something. You shockingly raised her hand and pointed backward, the guy turned around…
“Get the hell out of there!! God damn it!”
I shouted out loud, banging my fist on the metal surface. My body reflexively stood up, giving the most vicious stare at the screen. You and the guy were out of the sight… three seconds later, the roaring water rushed in.

I don’t know what the heck this is but I’m going to save them. I again tried to identify my location by looking around… but somehow my neck wouldn’t do so. My body rushed to another terminal and started typing something… On the screen it said: “Watertight Gates Manuel Control System.” I don’t know what I was doing but my body did.
Just then, the ground shook fiercely. I looked up again and saw the lights were flickering also. A low-frequency boom was heard associated with the quake… My vision began to fade… the last thing I caught on my eyes were a word that seemed to be hardly engraved on a ceremonial door, it started with ‘HIMM…’

[luckyovermind]

Originally Posted by randomshinichi

Well it is much more clearer when you explain it. Although I do see where she's coming from, I don't see why she has to make a really huge fuss about it.

After all, everybody knows that life can be good, but they're not sure that death can be good, so they all try to stay alive. She should know that life could take an upturn too.

Whatever.

Spoiler for tsugumi arc:

Because your logic is NORMAL, go and try having a car accident in the childhood, then being used as a guinea pig for a bunch of years, then being chased for the rest of your life and have all those wireld things happening to your body, you would be lucky not have gone mad, let alone have some kind of twisted logic.

[TronDD]

Spoiler for Tsugumi:

Tsugumi is special. For most people, no matter how bad life can get, it's short. It's the only one you have, so you make the most of it. But Tsugumi won't die. If life sucks, she's trapped in it. Things are not so precious when they last forever regardles of how much or little you like it.

[Enerccio]

Originally Posted by TronDD

Spoiler for Tsugumi:

Tsugumi is special. For most people, no matter how bad life can get, it's short. It's the only one you have, so you make the most of it. But Tsugumi won't die. If life sucks, she's trapped in it. Things are not so precious when they last forever regardles of how much or little you like it.

Spoiler for Tsugumi:

But in Coco arc, she will be forever with Takeshi and without Leiblich so i think she will have good life (except for that that she will see death of her childrens...) but still it is good life be forever with someone you love.

Spoiler for Cute chami:

XD That killed me
Like Takeshi si talking sweets to Chami as a joke and Tsugumi taked it like talking to her XD

Spoiler for BW:

Kind fun. The Blick Winkel is tha boss. COCO ENDING RULEZ!!!

[kgptzac]

Originally Posted by Enerccio

Spoiler for BW:

Kind fun. The Blick Winkel is tha boss. COCO ENDING RULEZ!!!

Spoiler for coco...:

wrong :P Coco > BW she seems to be playing the Trickstar role here ^^

[AvatarST]

Er...you should fix those spoiler tags before someone sees it .

[jedinat]

"You" should be spelled "Yuu"... It's annoying the hell out of me.

[randomshinichi]

err... guys, I just finished Tsugumi's beautiful ending... and I am not getting any options cleared from '[???]' in the Special menu. Shouldn't I get a 'Clear List' submenu at least?
EDIT: In other words... how do I know that my Tsugumi ending is recorded? Because I saved so much... I want to keep my saves for Tsugumi and all the other characters in different folders. It seems to have something to do with save_sys.dat.
EDIT2: Could it be that I have to get her bad ending too?

[Enerccio]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler for coco...:

wrong :P Coco > BW she seems to be playing the Trickstar role here ^^

lol, true. But she is from sun so...

[TronDD]

Originally Posted by jedinat

"You" should be spelled "Yuu"... It's annoying the hell out of me.

Yeah bothers me, too. Did they actually edit the graphics so it would be spelled "You" on her nametag or was it romanized incorrectly to begin with?


And speaking of You (Yuu, not you), I finally got around to finishing her arc. My first impression of it is that it was pretty boring compared to Sora and Tsugumi's endings. It also created a lot more mysteries than it solved. I was expecting that the more I played the game, the more I'd learn, not the more I wouldn't know.

On to Sara then finally Coco. I'm actualy more interested in the epilouges of the stories I've played through than reading Coco's ending.