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Old 2004-01-25, 13:55   Link #1
nooc
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Annoying moderators

While having rules is a good thing, having too many of then or being a "text book" is not. I get the impression that some of you mods see a forum as some kind of referenve book for posters; "Search first before posting". This is ok if the post is purely a fact question, but most of the time it is not. Also, most of the time different people will reply. A thread is always somewhat unique, because it is unique in that point of time.
I think there are some wh oare too triggerhappy.
Also, too strict rules will backfire. Makes the forum boring and not "alive".
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Old 2004-01-25, 14:28   Link #2
Flash_Squirrel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
While having rules is a good thing,
I think that having rules is not only a good thing, but it's a GREAT thing! But the thing you don't (and not only you it seems) understand is that while the rules are strict, they are not there because GHDPro likes to annoying you or pisses you off. They are there to make this forum more liveable and clean. There is ALWAYS a reason for a rule, they are not there just to make number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
having too many of then or being a "text book" is not.
I guess you are talking about "strict" moderators, right? Well, they are just doing their "job" as moderators. If someone from the staff feels that a thread should be closed, be sure that this is not to piss you off, but to preserve the tidiness of the forums. Your "Who is the weakest char" got closed? Why don't you try to look at it the other way? There are already plenty of "What..are you?" threads, and most of them are ..useless, yet they are open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
I get the impression that some of you mods see a forum as some kind of referenve book for posters;
And I get the impression that some of you are not considering the fact that the whole staff is working FOR you, spending some of their _free_ time to look over this forum (Which is not exactly "small" ). After the 70th thread that is obviously made without a glance at the rules, someone might want to bash you to show that the posts are going the wrong way.
What did Mao said? "Hit one to educate 100".

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
"Search first before posting". This is ok if the post is purely a fact question,
But it's good even if you have any kind of thread in mind. Reviving a thread is a way to give life to an argument, you don't have to start a new thread to say something, if this something was already started by someone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
but most of the time it is not.
Right. If someone asks in the DL help forum "How do I fix (error present in the guide)" or "Who is your favorite anime character" I don't see much difference. It's either close (And use the search function) or merge, because the thread itself is already present!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
Also, most of the time different people will reply.
That's exactly why you should revive a thread, and not create a new one with the same title. If you create a new one, you will kill the old one's discussions, link/images/posts/whatever. You are tossing away a thread, that, with your help, could revive in a new discussion. If you revive a thread more people will join, and old posters will share their opinions again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
A thread is always somewhat unique, because it is unique in that point of time.
Reviving or Starting is not different IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
I think there are some who are too triggerhappy.
If you think someone here shouldn't be a staff member, please, feel free to say so. But be sure to analyze what he/she do for the forum, and not only your selfish thoughs. "He closed my thread" doesn't count.
Experience will bring better results, and you are a part of this forum's growth. Don't work against us, work with us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
Also, too strict rules will backfire. Makes the forum boring and not "alive".
I agree with you here. We tend to discuss if a thread should be closed or not a lot between us, to keep the forums a nice and quiet place to be, and to ensure none of you will stand unhappy after our work. Don't do the mistake to think that we just mindlessly close everything on sight just because "we have the power". We care about the forum (Duh, otherwise we wouldn't be moderators :P ) so please, don't think we are just showing off some closing skillz.


This of course is NOT what all the moderators thinks, it's what *I* think. Feel free to comment here or PM me the flames.
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Old 2004-01-25, 15:33   Link #3
nooc
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Thanx for taking your time to reply in such detain.
I hope the mods understand I'm not trying to accuse or anything and they should also know that I'm not posting because of selfish thoughts. I just think the rule thing here is a little overkill. You don't need to have too strict rules, because it will lead nowhere. It's like assuming that posters do not have the ability to do the right thing. Too strict rules DO make things less enjoyable. I hope my thought are not just dismissed.

Cheers
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Old 2004-01-25, 15:53   Link #4
babbito2k
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A forum is about communicating, and communicating requires structure. The moderators are working to keep the forum within a recognizable structure that users can understand and respond to. This makes the forum enjoyable for the most people.
Having rules is all good, especially if it makes people think before they click the "submit" button. People "do the right thing" when they know the rules, that's why the rules are posted.
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Old 2004-01-25, 16:26   Link #5
nooc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
A forum is about communicating, and communicating requires structure. The moderators are working to keep the forum within a recognizable structure that users can understand and respond to. This makes the forum enjoyable for the most people.
Having rules is all good, especially if it makes people think before they click the "submit" button. People "do the right thing" when they know the rules, that's why the rules are posted.
Well.. I totally disagree..
Sure communication requires structure, but I think we already learned that structure when we were kids. Rules are not "all good". Look around you, in the real world. We'll just end up having a "Catch 22".
People should do the right thing all the time. Only bad people REQUIRE rules. Obviously, you do not think too highly of people.
Please not that I'm not an anarcist. Ofcourse, rules are needed, but there should be a limit and also, blind justice is a bad thing. :P
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Old 2004-01-25, 18:04   Link #6
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Well if you really wanna know about the rules and why they are in place read the Rules thread.

IMO the mods aren't too harsh at all. They don't like locking threads. I talked to NoSanninWa about it on IRC once and he said that he hate closing threads.

Maybe you should stay here longer and then try and make a decision about whether or not the mods are effectively doing their jobs.
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Old 2004-01-25, 18:20   Link #7
nooc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAppi
Well if you really wanna know about the rules and why they are in place read the Rules thread.

IMO the mods aren't too harsh at all. They don't like locking threads. I talked to NoSanninWa about it on IRC once and he said that he hate closing threads.

Maybe you should stay here longer and then try and make a decision about whether or not the mods are effectively doing their jobs.
Maybe I will Anyway, I've said mine and won't say anything more. So, folks, feel free to bash me all you want!
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Old 2004-01-25, 18:21   Link #8
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
Well.. I totally disagree..
Sure communication requires structure, but I think we already learned that structure when we were kids. Rules are not "all good". Look around you, in the real world. We'll just end up having a "Catch 22".
People should do the right thing all the time. Only bad people REQUIRE rules. Obviously, you do not think too highly of people.
Please not that I'm not an anarcist. Ofcourse, rules are needed, but there should be a limit and also, blind justice is a bad thing. :P
You are misquoting what I said. Who said rules were "all good?" I just said having them is all good. I don't see where I said I "[do] not think... highly of people." If you wish to discuss my posts, please do not impute motives.

And I don't see how this is now your "take on all comers" thread either... no matter how personally you take it, this thread is not about you, it's about the forum and the rules and the moderators.
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Last edited by babbito2k; 2004-04-22 at 01:53.
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Old 2004-01-25, 19:05   Link #9
Dark_Voodoo
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[Enter rant mode]

Okey the moderators of Animesuki and the rules. nooc you say that having to many rules arent good and makes the board stiff, well I agree with you. But the rules inplace here on Animesuki are here for a reason and they have been created for a reason. Iv been here awhile now and Iv seen alot of stupid threads come and go. Iv seen the rules grow to become that which they are today.
The rules on this board are not all that harsh and the mods are preatty lose in my mind, I see alot of threads that In my mind break the rules in some way, but the mods let them stay open (somtimes good, sometimes bad).

The rules if you read them state what kind of threads are accepted in the forum, and if you read them you see that they arent that stupid. They just make sure that "most" of the threads contains usefull information and debates.

Sometimes there are created many threads about one topic, well then the mods merge the threads into one big thread if there are good posts in both threads if not the lesser thread gets closed, nothing wrong with that in my mind.

As for only bad people need rules, well rules shows us what is bad and what is good.
And still even though we have these rules, people create threads that spam, ask stupid questions and serve no purpose what so ever. That's why whe have our mods that enforce the rules.

Now as for the mods of Animesuki.
They are all diffrent people and therefor they think diffrently about threads. Some are a little more trigger happy then others but in the end the only seek to keep order and maintain peace on the board.
Somtimes they make judgments about threads that may seem like total bull****.
Well then you can pm them about it and ask them why? or whatever you want to say.

As JAppie said the mods dont like to close threads, they actuall try to keep them open but there are threads that break the rules in such a way that they must be closed.
When this happens you may notice that almost all threads closed have a post in them from the mod that closed it explaining why it was closed, read it. And as I'v said if you still dont get it pm them about it.

So in the end, I think no, the moderators here arent to hard they are humans trying to do whats best for the forum, nothing more nothing less.

[Exit rant mode]
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Old 2004-01-25, 19:23   Link #10
SirJeannot
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i am quite surprised that nosanninwa still didn't write a reply in this thread


/me hides
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Old 2004-01-25, 20:57   Link #11
JAppi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJeannot
i am quite surprised that nosanninwa still didn't write a reply in this thread
Hurrah! NoSanninWa! /me gives him a cookie.

!

And a cookie to all the other ops! Hurrah! Let's have a big giant party!?
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Old 2004-01-25, 21:06   Link #12
nooc
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Interesting stuff here.
This thread should be in the General section.
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Old 2004-01-25, 21:45   Link #13
JAppi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooc
Interesting stuff here.
This thread should be in the General section.
This thread shouldn't even exist. The mods have every right to make what ever decision they want. This *is* their forum.
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Old 2004-01-25, 22:14   Link #14
NightWish
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Lightbulb

Actually, I don't mind threads like this myself, as long as they are civil. However, I'm not moving it -- it is in the right place; just need to cut back on the "off-topic chat". And yes: As GHDpro owns the site and can do what he likes with it within the limits of the law; but no, we are not (completely) adverse to feedback, suggestions or people asking us to account for our decisions where necessary -- that's what this forum is for.

To get back to the subject; probably not going to say much that isn't apparent from the other posts and common sense but here we go, my offical stand point:

nooc:
Yes; one of our "mantras" if you like is "search first - then post"... because it makes sense. It is faster for the person searching and less work for the rest of us who have seen the same questions time and time again. Parts of this forums are references. FAQs, Guides and How-To. Members of the site (not just the staff) have taken time to gather the information and present it in a format we believe is easy to access. Were we wasting our time?

As for your assertion that most of the time it isn't a "fact question" -- I assume you mean the thread requires a little more than the generic answer? ... Well, neither of us can prove that, either way -- if you have a specific thread you wish to dispute the decision on: feel free to raise it. All threads are and will be looked at on a case by case basis. If the person searches, uses the FAQs, etc. they still have the option to post if the still need help, yes? I agree every thread is unique... just like every court case is unique. They can still have common themes and hence common rulings / outcomes -- evaluated on a case by case basis.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to put your opinion down -- and naturally I will accept that we are not perfect... Sometimes we make mistakes; act too late or too early... that's life. However, if you believe we are doing something wrong can give examples and suggest an alternative course of action... without that I'm not sure what you expect us to do?
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Old 2004-01-25, 23:38   Link #15
nooc
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OK, Stop right there people!!! Now I regret ever starting this thread!! You guys appear to take this as some kind of personal attack. (I could be wrong, what do I know)
I want to make it very clear that what I've posted here belongs under the topic "Forum & Site Feedback".
I quite francly don't understand why everyone gets so emotional.
And JAppi, what you said in your last post.. That's an immature way of thinkin. If you have a forun you want the users to enjoy it. What point would there be otherwise? That's why you listen to and act on feedback (not individual feedbacks ofcourse :P)

Anyway, drop it, forget it, bury it. There is nothing more to say.
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Old 2004-01-26, 00:35   Link #16
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAppi
This thread shouldn't even exist.
I can't agree with you on this JAppi :
What you mean would be to close this thread?
Closing this thread which talk about the moderator would be quite bad since there is no flam here, and it would be an abuse of the moderator's powers from the person who would close this thread.
It can be an interesting thread as long as there's no flam.
Edit : By the way, all the moderators seem interested in this thread, I wonder why? ^^ (don't take it as a flam heh, it's just a joke since I saw 3 moderators viewing the thread at the same time )

Last edited by Thany; 2004-01-26 at 01:57.
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:56   Link #17
Mr. Bushido
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the mods are viewing this page right now lol.

this thread is also violating the rules. If you did a search, you would notice there already is a thread on this. Yup, i should know, i started a discussion with nosanninwa on that thread i believe. (healthy one)
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Old 2004-01-26, 02:03   Link #18
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
the mods are viewing this page right now lol.

this thread is also violating the rules. If you did a search, you would notice there already is a thread on this. Yup, i should know, i started a discussion with nosanninwa on that thread i believe. (healthy one)
I believe this is the thread hes talking about.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...ght=moderators
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Old 2004-01-26, 02:04   Link #19
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAppi
This thread shouldn't even exist. The mods have every right to make what ever decision they want. This *is* their forum.
No. It isn't. It is your forum. This is the forum of everyone who has an opinion that can affect another's understanding of anime. We are merely its caretakers. If the posters didn't have anything valuable to say, then we would be useless.

To me, moderating is like weeding. I need to get rid of the weeds so that beautiful flowers and yummy vegetables can grow. I weed out redundant threads that get posted again and again because otherwise you won't be able to find and post to the good threads. When there are two threads discussing a show, one needs to be closed so that the other will become stronger and more interesting.

Of course I always need to keep the danger of over-moderation in mind as well. Whenever I close a thread I censor someone's opinion or pleasure. Even if I do this for what I consider to be the best interests of the forum, the thread matters to someone. I need to really believe that the thread doesn't belong for me to delete it. There is no joy in this. Either someone doesn't get the forum, or I don't get them. Either way it is a bad thing. The worst thing I could possibly do is to delete or censor something because I don't agree with them. This above all things I try hard not to do. That is why I prize threads like this one. It gives me a chance to understand why people make threads that I feel break the rules.

As for the rules? The rules exist for your protection, not for us to club you over the head with. They limit the moderators as much as they limit you. If we can't figure out which rule a post breaks, then we can't close it. Think about that for a moment. Without the rules we'd just close anything that "looks bad" even if we can't figure out what is bad about it. I can't blame you for hating the rules though. They are a list of "Thou shalt not" instead of a list of "This is good". That creates an adversarial feeling, but there just isn't any good way to prevent this. Please keep in mind that they limit us also.

As a final note I would like to say that I always pay attention to any complaints that I receive as long as they don't contain the words "fascist" or "nazi". (Those words always get my back up.) I consider carefully what people have to say. Most of the time I stick to my original decision, but it isn't too rare for me to change my mind. I care what you have to say and I believe that diversity of opinion is good for the forum.
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Old 2004-01-26, 02:08   Link #20
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
No. It isn't. It is your forum. This is the forum of everyone who has an opinion that can affect another's understanding of anime. We are merely its caretakers. If the posters didn't have anything valuable to say, then we would be useless.

To me, moderating is like weeding. I need to get rid of the weeds so that beautiful flowers and yummy vegetables can grow. I weed out redundant threads that get posted again and again because otherwise you won't be able to find and post to the good threads. When there are two threads discussing a show, one needs to be closed so that the other will become stronger and more interesting.

Of course I always need to keep the danger of over-moderation in mind as well. Whenever I close a thread I censor someone's opinion or pleasure. Even if I do this for what I consider to be the best interests of the forum, the thread matters to someone. I need to really believe that the thread doesn't belong for me to delete it. There is no joy in this. Either someone doesn't get the forum, or I don't get them. Either way it is a bad thing. The worst thing I could possibly do is to delete or censor something because I don't agree with them. This above all things I try hard not to do. That is why I prize threads like this one. It gives me a chance to understand why people make threads that I feel break the rules.

As for the rules? The rules exist for your protection, not for us to club you over the head with. They limit the moderators as much as they limit you. If we can't figure out which rule a post breaks, then we can't close it. Think about that for a moment. Without the rules we'd just close anything that "looks bad" even if we can't figure out what is bad about it. I can't blame you for hating the rules though. They are a list of "Thou shalt not" instead of a list of "This is good". That creates an adversarial feeling, but there just isn't any good way to prevent this. Please keep in mind that they limit us also.

As a final note I would like to say that I always pay attention to any complaints that I receive as long as they don't contain the words "fascist" or "nazi". (Those words always get my back up.) I consider carefully what people have to say. Most of the time I stick to my original decision, but it isn't too rare for me to change my mind. I care what you have to say and I believe that diversity of opinion is good for the forum.
heh, i have so much respects for this guy.
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