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Old 2007-01-18, 13:29   Link #101
Enerccio
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Well since i am only at 233 (started today from 195) and.... OMG WTF OMFG BLEACH IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
I just love bleach, manga is super. I like the variety of the story...
and i love funny last pages
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Old 2007-01-19, 12:16   Link #102
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Well, you're right, that the author can change the charakters if he like to, however there is some restriction to it: He can't really contradict himself without causing a turmoil. Concerning the Isshin-issue for example, there never was any contradiction. We didn't get to see much of Isshin in the first place, and if we saw him then always from a 3rd persons point of view, when someone else was with him.
Tatsuki however was also shown beeing alone thinking about some things. And usually you don't lie, when you are thinking to yourself.
That's good insight. I agree that there should be at least some kind of logical basis for a theory. For example if I were to say "Hanatorau has bankai because he's a shingami" there's really hardly any basis for it. He's a shinigami and he's in the Gotei 13 but that's it. But a theory like, Rukia having bankai. It's unlikely and a little unrealistic, but there's a basis for it.

1) She's a main character and featured in the current arc
2) She's been training with Ukitake
3) Other VC's and seated officers below the rank of captain have obtained bankai.

Should someone who thinks Rukia has achieved bankai be shot down so immediately?

We certainly don't want theories floating around about every background character becoming a top-level fighter. hdx514 was correct when he stated that you won't be seeing too many surprises like Isshin. But you can bet that Isshin won't be the only surprise we'll be seeing in the future.
As for Isshin, I don't think he was intended to be a shinigami from the beginning( maybe he was, I don't know, but it doesn't seem that way to me). But his character was kept vague enough to allow his background to be retconned with very little contradiction. But even in the case of Isshin, there are some minor contradictions. Like Rukia staying in the Kurosaki household for so long and never sensing anything odd about Isshin or recognizing him. If he's a captain-class shinigami, he should be well-known in S.S, epsecially within the Gotei 13. But this is a minor contradiction and can be explained any number of ways. Now Tatsuki would be harder to retcon because they a little more in-depth with her character. But just because she's had inner monologue doesn't mean she can't be changed to have powers. She doesn't have to be aware of her power like Isshin was. If Kubo wanted to, he could just have her powers unlocked somehow by Urahara like Ichigo's hollow powers were and there would be little contradiction. All he would have to explain is why she was so late developing her powers compared to Chad and Orihime.
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Old 2007-01-19, 14:05   Link #103
felixm477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
That's good insight. I agree that there should be at least some kind of logical basis for a theory. For example if I were to say "Hanatorau has bankai because he's a shingami" there's really hardly any basis for it. He's a shinigami and he's in the Gotei 13 but that's it. But a theory like, Rukia having bankai. It's unlikely and a little unrealistic, but there's a basis for it.

1) She's a main character and featured in the current arc
2) She's been training with Ukitake
3) Other VC's and seated officers below the rank of captain have obtained bankai.

Should someone who thinks Rukia has achieved bankai be shot down so immediately?

We certainly don't want theories floating around about every background character becoming a top-level fighter. hdx514 was correct when he stated that you won't be seeing too many surprises like Isshin. But you can bet that Isshin won't be the only surprise we'll be seeing in the future.
As for Isshin, I don't think he was intended to be a shinigami from the beginning( maybe he was, I don't know, but it doesn't seem that way to me). But his character was kept vague enough to allow his background to be retconned with very little contradiction. But even in the case of Isshin, there are some minor contradictions. Like Rukia staying in the Kurosaki household for so long and never sensing anything odd about Isshin or recognizing him. If he's a captain-class shinigami, he should be well-known in S.S, epsecially within the Gotei 13. But this is a minor contradiction and can be explained any number of ways. Now Tatsuki would be harder to retcon because they a little more in-depth with her character. But just because she's had inner monologue doesn't mean she can't be changed to have powers. She doesn't have to be aware of her power like Isshin was. If Kubo wanted to, he could just have her powers unlocked somehow by Urahara like Ichigo's hollow powers were and there would be little contradiction. All he would have to explain is why she was so late developing her powers compared to Chad and Orihime.
sometimes the bleach storyline seems to just change over totally disregarding past events. im glad they gave rukia some credit when they explained how shes clearly above the rank shes given. but im not please with the fact shes had this bankai all along and this power when in the first episode she was rather pathetic and below inchigo in his borrowed shinigami form. giving power estimates is out the window here since all the characters seem to fluxuate from really week to increadibly strong when the plot requires it. its quite possible isshin could have been a "concept" at the start of the manga and kept him verly low key incase the story every developed to the point of needing more characters or soemthing. as far as suprises im pretty sure if there is another surprise planned that it will revolve heavily on the kurosaki's. weve seen isshin go from little info to blown out shinigami, whos to say masaki is probably VERY special herself since they obviously tried to keep anything about her uknown and we still dont know where ichigo has his insane powers from. if the rules of bleach stay true in the families sense then ichigo has to be of noble blood since its been said that the heads of the noble familes are born with a rare and above average reiatsu and from what ive seen (ukitake,yoruichi,kaien and his family) ichigo could be 1 of the others familes or another "important" bloodline. also isshin doesnt seem to be wearing a captains robe in any special way since from what we see along with the anime its not a "custom look" but more like the uniform is "meant" to look that way. perhaps royal guard drobes or something higher up?
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Old 2007-01-19, 19:32   Link #104
hdx514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felixm477 View Post
sometimes the bleach storyline seems to just change over totally disregarding past events.
mind giving some solid NON-FILLER ANIME examples?

Quote:
giving power estimates is out the window here since all the characters seem to fluxuate from really week to increadibly strong when the plot requires it.
ALL characters? mind giving say 10 solid NON-FILLER ANIME examples?

you need stuff from the bleach manga to backup your statement. as far as i can see ichigo has been very consistently leveling up throughout bleach manga.

Quote:
then ichigo has to be of noble blood since its been said that the heads of the noble familes are born with a rare and above average reiatsu and from what ive seen (ukitake,yoruichi,kaien and his family) ichigo could be 1 of the others familes or another "important" bloodline.
byakuya is the head of the kuchiki noble family and said to be possibly the best in kuchiki family history. yet his potential and growth rate is negligible compared to ichigo. if ichigo's got some rare lineage it's going to go beyond mere noble families.

Quote:
also isshin doesnt seem to be wearing a captains robe in any special way since from what we see along with the anime its not a "custom look" but more like the uniform is "meant" to look that way. perhaps royal guard drobes or something higher up?
aizen's been extremely secretive in the past, yet shinji and his group of vaizards had known about his plan for ages. the vaizards also knew everything there is to know about ichigo. they appear better informed than anyone in S.S. yet shinji still didn't realize isshin's reiatsu. that strongly suggest that he could not have been a captain of gotei 13, which is why nobody from S.S. realizes who he is.

i think he must be higher up, not because of the way he disposed of GF, because GF is trash and even rukia disposed of a gillian class arrancar, but because he's the shounen hero's dad, so logically, he either has no power, or is extremely powerful.
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Old 2007-01-22, 11:52   Link #105
felixm477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdx514 View Post
mind giving some solid NON-FILLER ANIME examples?


ALL characters? mind giving say 10 solid NON-FILLER ANIME examples?

you need stuff from the bleach manga to backup your statement. as far as i can see ichigo has been very consistently leveling up throughout bleach manga.



byakuya is the head of the kuchiki noble family and said to be possibly the best in kuchiki family history. yet his potential and growth rate is negligible compared to ichigo. if ichigo's got some rare lineage it's going to go beyond mere noble families.



aizen's been extremely secretive in the past, yet shinji and his group of vaizards had known about his plan for ages. the vaizards also knew everything there is to know about ichigo. they appear better informed than anyone in S.S. yet shinji still didn't realize isshin's reiatsu. that strongly suggest that he could not have been a captain of gotei 13, which is why nobody from S.S. realizes who he is.

i think he must be higher up, not because of the way he disposed of GF, because GF is trash and even rukia disposed of a gillian class arrancar, but because he's the shounen hero's dad, so logically, he either has no power, or is extremely powerful.
in regards to the changes i may not have meant drastic but there have been changes to the rules as far as the story goes, ide have to check but off the top of my head there is things like rukia suddenly being this powerful wich brings me to the "why is it so hard to accept that tatsuki can easily get a useful fighting power" rukia was rather pathetic against the weak hollows in the begining she was considerably weaker then ichigo with his "borrowed" powers and now shes suddenly Lt level she just never mentioned it till now?. as for the vizards their knowlege means they either where made vizards by aizen's crude experiments or just naturally became them in an attempt to gain shinigami powers similar to ichigo. since this is a manga ill cross out the boring natural idea and assume that due to how they react to being considered monsters by both sides of the field ide say they didnt want to be vizards so ill go with the aizen theory. since the vaizards and isshi all suddenly appeared in the same story arch they have to share some sorta connection atleast. as for isshin his outfit is seemingly an offshoot of the captains uniform he did mention he was "captain-level" instead of just saying "us captains" so hes gotta be from another arm of S.S system i wouldn be surprised if the SS Royal guards or family came into play this arch. well atleast we can both agree isshin is captain-level or strong and hes not from the gotei 13 so hes either a similar branch or a very high up. i have a feeling there will be a huge importance to the storyline around masaki and isshin, the lack of any mention other than shes the mother of the kurosaki kids points out that they are saving her for something later. she did after all appear to ward off GF on her own since ichigo was knocked out and isshin wasnt around for her she was obviously above human.
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