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Old 2007-01-28, 17:17   Link #401
Sazelyt
F i n
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Hmm I know I'm a little late but I don't have much time to post more than one-liner posts during the week lately. Duty come first :P
I was about to forget about the chapter... Hence, a triple-MS'd reply...

Quote:
What? You are saying now that Kakashi turned his back to Kakuzu, thought and said that Kakuzu should be dead but in fact knew that he wasn't?
Come on, you can do better than that.
Kakashi took some of Kakuzu's blood because that was part of the plan. It might not have been usefull, just like digging the hole and placing the explosive tags could have been useless depending of how the fight happened, but it was the plan and once Kakuzu was believed dead it's not like they had the time to seek someone's else blood anyway.

Kakashi tried to kill him with a Raikiri, thought he succeeded and tried then to take down Hidan with the same jutsu.
Kakashi trying to kill Kakazu with the MS and then trying it on Hidan if the first shot had succeeded make absolutely no difference if he was able to aim and warp his target easily.
The fact is that Kakashin, following Shika's plan, tried to kill them both.
Which completely contradict your point that it's "pretty obvious, he[Kakashi] could have used it[MS] with perfect success against Akatsuki members that were captured by Shikamaru's shadow jutsu." but didn't do it because of Shika's plan.
So again you have showed nothing implying that using the Raikiri instead of MS is related to any kind of emotion.
Your point is similar to what I said. If Kakashi was sure that Kakuzu was dead, why collect the blood sample, and if he was unsure of him being dead, why turn his back to him. The easiest explanation is that he assumed he gave enough damage to Kakuzu and moved onto the other. You might find another explanation, but that doesn't mean mine is incorrect.

And, later on, when you talk about a plan, that includes Hidan being Raikirid only to be separated into pieces "not to be killed", means Kakashi wasn't going for killing at least Hidan. I am not going to argue the same thing for Kakuzu, cause I don't know what Kakashi had in his head, with the blood sample. But, Hidan's death/ending was planned to be in the hands of Shikamaru.

Since I don't accept your point, I don't see any contradiction either. Kakashi using MS instead of Raikiri there, would have resulted the same thing, actually might prove to be more successful, since it might have destroyed Kakuzu to a point of no recovery. Furthermoe, another MS against Hidan, would have meant another success. But, the risk involving MS is not appropriate if you take into account the group, and if you take into acount the group, you may not talk about the capturing of the opponent.

Hence, we go back to the beginning, meaning, that attack pattern does not have to represent Kakashi's sole pattern against Kakuzu, when he was fighting alone, which is what I was saying.

Quote:
Because Kakashi following Shika's plan tried to take care of Hidan. A Chidori isn't enough to kill Hidan -since from our current knowledge nothing is- but it's more than enough to behead him which enough to eliminate him.
Just like everybody on the team was meant to take some blood from Kakuzu if they had the chance, Hidan was meant to be eliminated by Kakashi if that was possible.
Again, I don't know what Shikamaru had planned for Hidan and Kakashi. We can only guess, and my guess seems to differ from yours. That plan does not have to mean the selected attack pattern was the most successful one according to Kakashi, if the emotions are excluded. For instance, if Hidan's future was decided to be in the hands of Shikamaru from the beginning, MS was not even an option, at least for Hidan. And, if that is the case, how can I not talk about the impact of emotions?

Quote:
Your whole arguement lies on the use of the MS. The use of the MS instead of another jutsu lies on the fact that Kakuzu wouldn't be able to dodge. Kakuzu not able to dodge lies in Shika's presence.
It's not that Kakuzu is forced to move to attack, it's just that he can move and pretty fast at that. In this case using the MS becomes a liability because a miss would most probably mean Kakashi's death -especially without backup in fact.
I am about to lose the main point, but I guess, it was revolving around the possibility of success with MS is higher than Raikiri, according to my opinion, based on what I have seen, if Kakashi were to be alone or not affected by the group he is with. The comparison of speed between those two opponents, when Kakashi was not affected by anything there, is currently missing. And, the attitude of Kakuzu towards his opponents in a fight, would easily give the opportunity to use MS. I haven't talked about a for sure success, but, the probability of those conditions being satisfied does not seem to be as low as you currently assume, in my opinion.

And, just a few additions, none of the attacks can guarantee the opponent to be affected by it 100%. I don't think I ever said that. Also, I guess we can say that the use of any jutsu lies on the fact that the opponent would be able to dodge with the lowest possibility. MS seems to be one of those jutsus, by being highly effective at long-range.

Quote:
I don't think variables do not mean anything at all, I think the boundaries you are using now are way over likeliness.
Things like "Kakashi knew that his Raikiri wouldn't kill Kakuzu" and "Kakashi wasn't meant to disable Hidan when he charged him with a Raikiri" etc. aren't within boundaries of the storyline, they are contradicting what character did, thought and said.
Your points are based on the lines that you draw based on what you observe instead of a complete line that is drawn by Kishi, from beginning to end. So, I don't think, you are fair to say my thoughts are contradicting with the story, since the story does not actually tell what you claim.

Quote:
No you are to assume exactly what happened : that Shika tricked Kakuzu into thinking that his shadow knive was a regular kunai with an explosive tag.
Kakuzu didn't trick Kakashi, he didn't take him by surprise or from behind. They were facing each other, the tentacles came toward Kakashi and he get caught before he could move. At this point yeah you are to assume that Kakuzu's tentacles were extremely fast compared to Kakashi.
That example is meant to show that there are things beyond what we see happening there. Hidan getting tricked, or Kakashi getting consumed might belong to similar categories, in terms of the results they achieve. I think it is fair to say that we don't know about that, meaning, I don't need to assume Kakuzu's tentacles are able to capture Kakashi when Kakashi wasn't close to be completely exhausted.
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