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Old 2007-01-30, 10:44   Link #81
chuckcsf
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Maybe... But considering that we haven't seen a lot from Chouji and Ino, based on the plan, the result might have been different and, who knows, maybe even better...
True... but we have seen that if it wasn't for Kakashi blocking Kakuzu's attack, they would have been done for. I'm sure Kakashi wasting chakra was not part of the plan.

Oh and Rurik... grow up man. Digging my old posts just to prove what??? Lol that is pretty lame and st.... Just because you can't come up with a meaningful argument you have to resolve to this.

Like I said before, Shika is an idiot for trying to take on the two Akatsuki with just Choji and Ino. This is one of the reasons why I can't just jump into a connclusion that Shika is the best strategist. It's not that I don't like his character because I do. I'm just saying that the manga has not shown him to be the best but one of the best strategists. It is too early to say that he is the best and made a critical mistake (mentioned above) that would have cost them his and his team's lives if it wasn't for Kakashi volunteering his help.

Last edited by chuckcsf; 2007-01-30 at 10:56.
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Old 2007-01-30, 11:07   Link #82
Rurik
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Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
Oh and Rurik... grow up man. Digging my old posts just to prove what??? Lol that is pretty lame and st.... Just because you can't come up with a meaningful argument you have to resolve to this.
To prove precisely that you are eating your own words, those post showed the fact that you have chosen specifically facts just to prove your point, you say you don’t like to Jump to conclusion, and say to other don’t jump to conclusion and don’t take this as fact, but that is exactly what you are doing.

So actually, is not pretty lame, is just showed a reality. And I did use meaningful argument; however the best you could do is say it is not.

Quote:
Like I said before, Shika is an idiot for trying to take on the two Akatsuki with just Choji and Ino. This is one of the reasons why I can't just jump into a connclusion that Shika is the best strategist.
You say you like the character yet you call him an Idiot, mmmk.

As Sazelyt mentioned, You don’t know that, It could had been better or worst, Shika changed his plan when Kakashi was introduced to the team, get that He changed the plan. So of he changed his plan, we don’t know the success rate the previous plan could had have. You are Jumping to conclusions here.

Quote:
It's not that I don't like his character because I do. I'm just saying that the manga has not shown him to be the best but one of the best strategists
Ok, So you said he hasn’t been shown as the best strategist, so could you tell me who is the best shown in the Manga so far?

Quote:
. It is too early to say that he is the best and made a critical mistake (mentioned above) that would have cost them his and his team's lives if it wasn't for Kakashi volunteering his help.
For once, You don’t know what Shikamaru plans was before Kakshi, hence, you cant say he made a mistake in his plan, when you don’t know the Plan without Kakashi, yet again you are jumping into conclusion, even far worst than my supposed one.
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Old 2007-01-30, 11:25   Link #83
chuckcsf
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Rurik, whatever man... I'm tired of arguing with a child. I call my friends idiots but I still like em... and let me show you why you are not using your comon sense.

As it is rightnow, Kakashi, Ino and Chouji were pretty much done for and would have been goners if it wasn't for the back up team. So Shika made a worse Strategy because of Kakashi? Are you saying that Kakashi is a burden and not an asset?
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Old 2007-01-30, 11:40   Link #84
Rurik
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Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
Rurik, whatever man... I'm tired of arguing with a child. I call my friends idiots but I still like em... and let me show you why you are not using your comon sense.
Youve be surprised who are you calling a child. But, is fine, its really something normal that at losing end of a debate some poster beggin to talk about the poster, and not the post itself.

Quote:
As it is rightnow, Kakashi, Ino and Chouji were pretty much done for and would have been goners if it wasn't for the back up team. So Shika made a worse Strategy because of Kakashi? Are you saying that Kakashi is a burden and not an asset?
Don’t put words in my mouth, I didn’t say it was a worst strategy, I said “You don’t know that, It could had been better or worst, Shika changed his plan when Kakashi was introduced to the team, get that He changed the plan.”

You don’t know if without Kakashi the Plan Shikamaru had before hand would have worked out better than the one with Kakashi, is not that Kakashi is a burden, rather, he is variable in an Equation.

A Variable in an equation doesn’t mean it would give value to the result, it would just throw a different or same results than the previous equation that did not included that variable. So the first plan made by Shika could had been completely different from the One made with Kakashi, and hence we don’t know the success rate of this plan compared to the one with Kakashi.

To put it better, The queen is the strongest piece in Chess, however that doesn’t mean strategies made by lesser pieces cant be better than those who are made using the Queen.

And once again you failed to asnwer my question of who you think is the best strategist shown in the series.
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Old 2007-01-30, 11:56   Link #85
chuckcsf
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So you don't know if it's worse or better... well comon sense dictates (mine atleast) that it was worse since they are having a hard time already even with Kakashi. With this fact, it is safe to conclude that Shika's previous plan would have caused his team to be wiped out since I don't think Kakashi could make his plan a worse plan. Yes the strategy changed but it was a good change. If it was a bad change... then that means Shika is not that good of a strategist if he made a bad change. If it is a good change in strategy then his previous plan sucked.

Oh and I have never placed anything in your mouth! Those are questions designed to stimulate your brain.
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Old 2007-01-30, 12:08   Link #86
Rurik
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Originally Posted by chuckcsf View Post
So you don't know if it's worse or better... well comon sense dictates (mine atleast) that it was worse since they are having a hard time already even with Kakashi. With this fact, it is safe to conclude that Shika's previous plan would have caused his team to be wiped out since I don't think Kakashi could make his plan a worse plan. Yes the strategy changed but it was a good change. If it was a bad change... then that means Shika is not that good of a strategist if he made a bad change. If it is a good change in strategy then his previous plan sucked.
And I agree with you as an Opinion that with Kakashi it should has been a much better and a plan with a hihger succes rate..

My point is (and I guess is what Saze was talking about) that even if he made a better strategy with Kakashi, that doesn't mean the previous one without him was doomed, and that even this one with kakashi need Help of people not in the plan (maybe), So, talking about plot wise, without kakashi, something similar would had happened and at the precise moment get saved by others but not until part of Shikas plans ot completed up to the end (like what Happened with Tayuya).

Which makes me think, could Shika have tough about reinforcement as part of the Plan?
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Old 2007-01-30, 15:40   Link #87
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Which makes me think, could Shika have tough about reinforcement as part of the Plan?
Normally, I don't think so, as he was leaving Konoha without giving information to the others about his plan. But, considering his analytical ability, he might have backup plans in case they encounter more enemies.

It would be easy to make plans by taking into account the strength of your team - the things you have under your command. Estimating in what way unknown reinforcements with unknown abilities can help you would be more difficult to propose an action against unknown enemies.
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Old 2007-01-30, 15:55   Link #88
Rurik
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Normally, I don't think so, as he was leaving Konoha without giving information to the others about his plan. But, considering his analytical ability, he might have backup plans in case they encounter more enemies.

It would be easy to make plans by taking into account the strength of your team - the things you have under your command. Estimating in what way unknown reinforcements with unknown abilities can help you would be more difficult to propose an action against unknown enemies.

Yeah, I guess you are right: Don’t use outside factor in your plan, and more about the unknown who that back up might be.

But, I was thinking more as as a factor that could affect the plan., and not actually a part needed for the plan to be succesful.
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Old 2007-01-30, 16:00   Link #89
chuckcsf
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Yeah, I guess you are right: Donít use outside factor in your plan, and more about the unknown who that back up might be.

But, I was thinking more as an estimation that in the eventuality of the fight to drag on for an determined amount of time the reinforcement should be here, and this as not as part of how the plan progresses, but more as a factor that could affect the plan.
Unless... this is why they didn't just sneak out and he made sure somebody noticed them leaving
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Old 2007-01-30, 16:03   Link #90
Rurik
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Unless... this is why they didn't just sneak out and he made sure somebody noticed them leaving
well, you were fast enough to quote me before my edit....

I was thinking like that. but, neh, Shikamaru it still too far away from been Bat-Man.
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Old 2007-01-30, 21:13   Link #91
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Man I just realized how pathetic this is. Like honestly, we're arguing about FAKE people, in an anime..



Also I could own every single ninja in naruto, every beast in any anime. The one and only


Eraser no jutsu

Owns everyone.
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Old 2007-01-30, 21:47   Link #92
chuckcsf
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Man I just realized how pathetic this is. Like honestly, we're arguing about FAKE people, in an anime..



Also I could own every single ninja in naruto, every beast in any anime. The one and only


Eraser no jutsu

Owns everyone.
Why exactly is it pathetic? Get f___ life!
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Old 2007-01-31, 03:03   Link #93
Cha0s
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Why is this pathetic? I should get a life? Why not you?
This isn't pathetic? Arguing about who's smarter in an ANIME?
Talking and comparing Iq's of ANIME characters?!
this isnt pathetic? HAHAhAhA! you should get a life
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Old 2007-01-31, 07:46   Link #94
Sabaku Kyu
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Edit: I posted a response to someone who already got himself banned.
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Old 2007-02-01, 21:14   Link #95
LittleLaptopChan
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Edit: I posted a response to someone who already got himself banned.


guess he won't be arguing any time soon


what type of jutsu is "Eraser no jutsu"?? surely it can't be tai, so it must be either nin or genjutsu
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Old 2007-02-03, 05:33   Link #96
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penciljutsu
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