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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 82 52.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 59 37.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 6.37%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 2.55%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.64%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.64%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-02-03, 13:47   Link #101
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Then, I guess, we'll never agree. I still think she visited on that day(which was not the first day of the semister) to meet Yuuichi.
The whole argument regarding that perfectly illuminates my gripes with Yuuichi getting too much focus instead of characters that really matter. I assumed that Shiori really wanted to be with her sister, but again Yuuichi got the spotlight in the end, making this simple assumption blurry (thus making the whole point of the arc blurry as well). I think Toei's version handled it better.
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Old 2007-02-03, 13:52   Link #102
Shana-tan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I've got an idea about why he cried for Mai only, unlike Shiro and Makoto he most likely wasn't expecting Mai to die, so it probably came as a bigger and sudden shock than the other two.

Another reason might also be because he felt slightly responsible for what Mai had gone through when he left. I know it's also the same with Makoto, but he only knew the 'human' her for a few days...

But me being bias, I'll say that he just likes Mai better =P

That aside, I have faith that Yuuichi is very strong mentally (like what Mai's power told her before), so he would able to pull himself through this somehow... But I don't think it would be fast nor easy...
I was thinking the same
well... let's wait for nayuki and ayu arc to see if he becomes a emo
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Old 2007-02-03, 14:00   Link #103
Sai the Dreamer
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I mean - Shiori looked as genki as always, there are no signs of her getting weaker or anything... her dropping dead just like that is hard to swallow.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there's a line in the opening song that translates to: "She knows the strength it takes to smile until the end." At the end of the episode, Shiori even says, "Did I manage to smile?" That's a large drama factor in Kanon - the characters try to remain happy and peaceful even through the toughest of times. And this reflects on Shiori, as she could very well be trying with all her might to hide the suffering within.

...at least, that's the best explanation I can come up with. o.o; Makes sense when you think about it.
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Old 2007-02-03, 14:02   Link #104
npal
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Well, although unlikely, if it's a serious internal organ failure, yes, you can drop dead on the spot, more or less.
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Old 2007-02-03, 14:36   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
After all, wouldn't it seem odd to you if a younger sister asked for her elder sister's class? Why wouldn't the elder sister have told her at home? This then leads back to the problem of Shiori not wanting to trouble her elder sister. She would need a cover story for people to listen to if they pry her about it, and this might have delayed her and/or gave her hesitation.
What about Kaori's name though? No matter how the two sisters didn't talk to each other, Shiori should at least know Kaori's name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
"Was I good enough for you?"

Kidding, kidding. I don't want to give anyone nightmares. Seriously though, I hope I have explained enough in sufficient detail. Feel free to query further.
LoL, good thing I'm not a fan of Shiori, so I will be okay.

Anyway, I could have hopped into the game and started quoting lines to support (or at least try to) my claim, but since this arc is changed quite some comparing to other girls' arcs, I'll just take your answers and leave it be --- maybe Shiori was there to see Kaori, or both.
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Old 2007-02-03, 16:53   Link #106
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this episode was sad... I do hope that a miracle happens. =)
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Old 2007-02-03, 17:28   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sai the Dreamer View Post
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but there's a line in the opening song that translates to: "She knows the strength it takes to smile until the end." At the end of the episode, Shiori even says, "Did I manage to smile?" That's a large drama factor in Kanon - the characters try to remain happy and peaceful even through the toughest of times. And this reflects on Shiori, as she could very well be trying with all her might to hide the suffering within.

...at least, that's the best explanation I can come up with. o.o; Makes sense when you think about it.
It is kinda hard to not notice it, ne ? And that line, obviously, refers more to mental strength than anything else, but i am talking about her physical condition.... and she seemed as fine as ever in that regard. She could be hiding her pain, but since we are never shown that to be even remotely true, i believe it is not the case. (Especially KyoAni would have dropped some hints regarding the issue, because they wouldn't leave such things out.. something as subtle as Sayuri's wounded wrist is shown for a brief moment).

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal
Well, although unlikely, if it's a serious internal organ failure, yes, you can drop dead on the spot, more or less.
While this might be true, i find it hard to believe it in any way. I am by no means an expert in medicine, but since the doctors know about this for a good while now, why hasn't anything been done? Nowdays any organ is replaceable, save for the brain.... and telling her that her brain is going to stop functioning at a certain date is stretching it

... Or this simply might yet again be one of those cases where the fans are giving the situation much more thought than the authors ever planned to do
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Old 2007-02-03, 17:33   Link #108
npal
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Well, in Shiori's case, we don't know, we can't really tell. I do think it's something to do with her nervous system, judging from her extremely low score in that hit-the-badger game. There are a number of neurological diseases that cannot be cured and disrupt body reactions and movement and get worse with time. However, I'm not aware of any neurological illness that can cause your brain to stop functioning of the spot, but I'm by no means an expert in neurology. And from what I recall, there aren't that many neurological diseases that can kill you, but that doesn't say much. Neurological illnesses usually cause gradual deterioration, which means you're usually dying slowly. So, Shiori dropping dead is unlikely, but Shiori reaching a state where she can't move or speak is not that unlikely, and it'd add volumes to the drama if someone did animate something like that. I can imagine Yuuichi jumping off the window in depression if he had to go through that with Shiori.
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Old 2007-02-03, 17:53   Link #109
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Well, i can certainly picture Yuuichi jumping out the window as well in that case (heck, he probably wouldn't mind a second amnesia right about now), but still - the doctors said the she was not going to make it past her birthday...which does not exactly imply Shiori reaching a state where she is unable to move/speak. And there is still the problem with the ability to predict the dreaded event with such precision... which is even less possible in a case of a neurological sickness (imo), than it is with a case of organ failure. (Which should be already damn near impossible )
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Old 2007-02-03, 18:01   Link #110
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Nah, as I said, the doctors can predict the end with such accuracy, no matter the disease. Their predictions range from a span of months to a span of years, with no real certainty and they can be wrong both ways, like in the case of a father of a friend who had surgery, the doctors gave them 2 years more or less and he got worse and died in 4 months after the surgery from cancer. Never take a doctor's prediction for granted. In the case of Shiori, since she made it past the prediction, I'd give her some months before she deteriorates beyond recognition, provided that the doctor's prediction is as accurate as it can, and that her condition was given in as much detail as possible. For all we know, she could actually surprise the doctors and last for another year or so.

Although now that I think about it, Shiori mentioned always having a weak body... Maybe it's a rare case of immune syster disease, if it's not a neurological disease. What was Rika's disease from HanTsuki, btw? Maybe it's something similar and it's some sort of heart problem? (although that doesn't really explain her game reaction time.
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Old 2007-02-03, 18:39   Link #111
Skyfall
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Ah - but that is the problem here See, i would have no problems at all, should the prediction be about a time period covering one month...heck, even 2 weeks or so would be fine with me, but she seemed to be given a specific date

And Kaori tells this to Yuuichi few days before the supposed date, suggesting that there have not been any signs of recent change for the better. So i am wondering what could the illness be, when the doctors seem to be able to predict an accurate date, instead of a time-span covering a larger period of time they would usually predict.

Well, to point out the obvious - the prediction was wrong, since Shiori made it to her actual birthday, and she still looked as alive and kicking as she ever was, so bleh... maybe the doctors messed up bigtime ? Or maybe this has something to do with the fact that Shiori has regained her will to live as she states in the ep... unlike the past, when she probably didn't have much of a willpower to to keep going.

... Tho Shiori's case must have been serious even before Kaori started to ignore here, because that was kinda needed for Shiori to lose her will to live, so Kaori should not be the cause of it.... then again - that could have been the reason of her case getting worse (to some extent), and the date could have been predicted based on the new (worsened) case... but since she found some drive to live again after spending time with Yuuichi, it might be the reason why she lasted past the set date. (And perhaps she is going to last even longer, now that she is on good terms with Kaori again).

Tho the broken down Yuuichi in ep19 preview suggests otherwise.... but then again - he might as well know nothing about Shiori's state, and is under the assumption that she died... bleh, i guess the best answer is to wait for the next ep
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Old 2007-02-03, 18:45   Link #112
npal
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Well, I don't remember the doctor saying that her birthday date is crucial. I thought he was being rather pessimistic as in "it'll be a miracle if she gets through her birthday", without giving anything more of a prediction. He doesn't expect her to last too long after that, but I don't think her birthday was such an absolute prediction. And it seems plausible for a doctor to make the aforementioned statement. That of course means that Shiori is outliving the doctor's prediction, which is good, but it also means that the doctor expects her to get worse pretty soon.

But yes, having the will to live DOES play a part in prolonging your life. It's a fact
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Old 2007-02-03, 21:59   Link #113
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Mods to need to add a "200" option to the poll for eps like this one - ten just doesn't get it done...
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Old 2007-02-03, 22:18   Link #114
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What an open-ended ending to the episode. That being said, it would kinda spoil everything the episode has been striving for-the mood, the foreboding future Yuuichi and Kaori know would happen etc if we do indeed get to see Shiori somehow alive later without an explanation of how.

Excellent episode, as it is with the end of the arcs so far.

-Yuuichi himself seemed pretty depressed about Shiori's apparent fate. It's written all over his face in the whole episode, and only slightly covered over by the fact that Kaori had finally acknowledged Shiori once more as her imouto.

-So it was U1 in the end who finally persuades Kaori to come. Not as surprising as it might seem, unless the viewer has blasphemously skipped episode 17. The fact that she has become prone to thinking things through in both episodes together with Yuuichi's words about Shiori and making clear what she wants should have done the least to prompt Kaori to make it to the party, reluctant as she is.

That being said, points to U1 (again) as well as Jun this time for melting the tense atmosphere between the two sisters, even though it seemed temporary then, the effects showed when Kaori announced herself as Shiori's Onee-chan.

-Jun and U1's act would have been a total riot-Had it not been for the fact that the awkward atmosphere still existed despite their efforts. It was goddamned funny, though. Perfect for a slapstick routine.

-"A few other friends", he says, and look how many he's brought (though those that came were probably from Shiori's class,courtesy of her cute friend ). It probably doesn't matter though. What's important is to have the atmosphere of a birthday party about and for Shiori to be happy, I guess.

-The climax came for me when Yuuichi whipped out his present (after that cute little moment where Shiori asked to hold hands with him) and the kiss on his cheek. It confirms just how much Yuuichi meant to Shiori (together with her explanation of her being weak). In effect, she probably decided that the 'miracle' had already occurred-A person dying of an incurable disease with her closest family member treating her like a stranger, wanting to die prematurely but saved by the simple acts of Yuuichi and Ayu which would elicit laughter. Perhaps it was at this point in time where she decided that going to school to look for just one person isn't enough. As for the degree of 'liking' Yuuichi, it's kinda ambiguous for me-As a Onii-chan, or simply as something more?

-The ending was somewhat ambiguous though, but probably left lots of hope in plenty of viewers. It's almost like a fairytale ending, save for the fact that Yuuichi saw no beautiful angelic being flying away with Shiori in her arms and promising to save her or whatnot. I would like to think she survived too, especially since we have no idea what her fate truly was.

As to why Yuuichi did not cry this time round, I would guess it would be because of the fact that he knew this was going to come. He probably knew it even as he decided to hurry to where Shiori might be, after finding out that she had taken everything with her, never intending to return. Then again, it probably was a feeling where he would have cried, but the tears just won't come out.

-Excellent graphics and BGM once again, despite the same BGMs being played over the last several episodes before. It still worked up the atmosphere and mood.

The preview looks pretty interesting, giving little away, save for the fact that Yuuichi is finally feeling some mental strain and Ayu's ominous words of asking 'someone' not to forget her. It should probably be Nayuki's stage, though.

Darn...Can I give a 9.7/10 for this one...? Forget it...I'll just round it up.
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Old 2007-02-04, 00:37   Link #115
Cyz
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Seen ep. 18

--> Well, what can I say? So many Shiori moments there. The part where Kaori revealed that Shiori is her little sister is a little anti climactic. Where's the gushing of emotions? It should be on the teary side no? But I guess that was reserved for the end with Yuuichi. Hmm, it might have a lack of closure but it sure looks good on how they do it. I guess they're making the viewers guess or speculate on what happens next.
Spoiler for Next ep:
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Old 2007-02-04, 00:51   Link #116
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If anyone remembers the scene where Yuuichi and Shiori made that second part of their promise from the game please post episode number and time index as I can't seem to remember this scene, and this would make all the difference about the ending.

There was a bit much comedy in this episode, such as Shiori's bentos being so stressful to Yuuichi. Kitagawa works as a comedy device but some parts of the dance were a bit too much for me, and his explicit question about Shiori's family name required a weird stunt by Yuuichi to be fixed. And Kanon is a harem scenario - at least if you ask Kitagawa. ;-) The "few friends" were an awful lot, probably required for the dance to be allowed at this location. Had there been only five people celebrating and then making that much riot the owner would have called the police.

Shiori wanting to meet Yuuichi at school during her first visit would strengthen the harem element of this show by Yuuichi having made so much impact on Shiori so early. So I'm hesitant about this aspect, even though at this point in time Shiori might have been dead already had Yuuichi not been in a certain place at a certain time. Remember how Shiori was able to spot Yuuichi's classroom when she came to school in her school uniform for the first time - why should she have been unable to do the same before? Shiori not knowing where Kaori's classroom is doesn't sound plausible to me, she's 15 years old and not a little brat. And note how nobody at school seems to know the sisterly relation between Shiori and Kaori, so she wouldn't have caused any problem for Kaori by asking for the classroom of "a girl named Misaka Kaori".

Inviting Shiori's classmate to the party (and her having become Shiori's friend after that) was an excellent idea, as well as Yuuichi giving Shiori a present with the requirement to make use of it: Adding ever more little aspects how life can be great for Shiori if she continues to live. Making Shiori depend on Yuuichi alone would have failed to work the same way as it failed in Mai's arc.

The time given to Shiori's arc was spent well, with details like her bumping into Yuuichi at the schoolyard (thus unofficially challenging Ayu in that category ;-). Her kiss was kind of announced by Shiori's previous statement how she might like Yuuichi more and more if she had the time to. But what's great about Shiori's development is how she changed her mind and decided to embrace the experience of loving and being loved, accepting the potential pain that would come along with it. Still, the most important impact on Shiori was one that Yuuichi hadn't even intended - keeping her from killing herself on the day when they first met. So Shiori's miracle has already happened, being the fact that Ayu (!) and Shiori were at the same location on that day. If that didn't happen then Shiori's chance of surviving would have been zero. Now she has a chance, as she has something to fight for: A sister loving and supporting her, new friends at school, a drawing book to fill and at least two promises to keep.

I was focussing more on Kaori than on Shiori, and I loved how Yuuichi 'worked' Kaori slowly bit by bit. During the process Kaori always offered the will to communicate - as long as he avoided the issue of Shiori, which turned into an interesting game between these two (almost on the same level as Yuuichi trying to make Mai talk) and resulted in Kaori being one of my favourite girls of this show. Kaori was fully aware of what might happen when she went to this party, so she was already about to change her mind at this point - it's not as if she were "forced" to be with her sister, which I consider a significant improvement as compared to the game. Yuuichi had effectively told her: "We're not willing to give up on Shiori, and this might be your last chance to see her acting happily." Perhaps this, and watching the photographs in her desk drawer, was something she couldn't resist, knowing that her own happiest memories were the same as Shiori's.
The party, while a bit over the top at times, gave the sisters the chance to establish eye contact and allowed Shiori to symbolically eat sweets with Kaori, making her wish come true (remember how important it was for Shiori to do this by herself, not accepting Nayuki's help). I was surprised that it was something silly like Shiori being considered Yuuichi's girlfriend being the last drop that make Kaori consider herself responsible for her sister - but it made kind of sense to me in the end.
Comparing 2k2 and 2k6, the most significant difference coming to my mind is
Spoiler for Kaori in 2k2 vs. 2k6:
In general, I'd like the cliffhanger nature of the ending (despite the horrible cut to happily running Ayu) if the next episode would continue Shiori's story anyhow. But my guess is that Shiori has already been written out of the scenario like Mai and Sayuri were before, thus leaving Yuuichi uninformed about her further development (and now it would be interesting to know the nature of Shiori's illness as to learn whether she might opt for a risky treatment that would plausibily keep her in the hospital or whatnot). Shiori being hospitalized would be no reason for Yuuichi not visiting her, and it's not as if Shiori's condition would get worse that much during the next couple of days (after all, the doctors can't be that accurate in guessing the date). We have seen Yuuichi suffer for real this time. This isn't just a magical animal like Makoto, it's a real girl with real feelings (and even more, feelings for him). Yuuichi has gotten involved too deeply into Shiori's issue to just quit caring for her now. I hated that at the end of the Mai arc already, and I'll hate it even more when it happens again this time. Shiori has made quite a few new friends now and is expected to appear at school more frequently, and Yuuichi is expected to be one of the people to spend time with her. Ruthlessly cutting off her arc here for the sake of starting the next one will be paying a high price to game compatibility, and a higher price than in 2k2 because of the deeper bond between these two. Citing Shiori, she had better not fallen in love with Yuuichi... Yuuichi will not accept her excuse of not letting him suffer, as he explicitly told her he knows what he's doing. Shiori now avoiding Yuuichi would be as stubborn as Kaori was earlier. And Yuuichi finding the address of his classmate Kaori in the telephone book (or even some list at school) should be a piece of cake. So my rating for this episode has to be a bet on whether we'll see more Shiori next time. I guess we won't, thus reducing my rating to 8/10.

What's good about the ending is that Kaori will be waiting for Shiori at home, and they'll be able to talk again after a long time. That's as much as Yuuichi could be able to actively do for these sisters (plus inadvertantly preventing Shiori's suicide as a bonus). Yuuichi isn't a doctor after all (even though he... no, that would be a spoiler).

One more thing, about Yuuichi crying for Mai but not for Shiori. It remains to be seen how much he will cry in the next episode. But anyway, Yuuichi kind of confessed to Mai but didn't do the same to Shiori. I agree about Mai's "death" having been more of a surprise to him but I have the feeling that Yuuichi was more emotionally attached to Mai than to Shiori. Yuuichi spent every night with Mai based on his own desire; he only started spending lots of time with Shiori after he learned about her being doomed. Consequently I'll be angry if we don't see Yuuichi visiting Mai in the hospital. (Yes I know that "the oracle" permanently tells Yuuichi to take care of other girls first but if he doesn't visit Mai in episode 19 then I wonder how he actually intends to keep his promise with "Hope".)

So let's now look forward to the most interesting part of the series, as indicated by the preview: Nayuki is about to wake up!

Last edited by Devil Doll; 2007-02-04 at 01:21.
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Old 2007-02-04, 13:13   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Devil Doll View Post
We have seen Yuuichi suffer for real this time. This isn't just a magical animal like Makoto, it's a real girl with real feelings (and even more, feelings for him).
While Makoto isn't my favorite... Don't you think thats a bit harsh, just brushing her off like she was nothing? Calling her "just a magical animal", as well as implying that she didn't have any feelings (of any sort) towards Yuuichi (as well as not having "real feelings" at all)?
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Old 2007-02-04, 13:22   Link #118
Skyfall
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Originally Posted by Blue Reverie View Post
While Makoto isn't my favorite... Don't you think thats a bit harsh, just brushing her off like she was nothing? Calling her "just a magical animal", as well as implying that she didn't have any feelings (of any sort) towards Yuuichi (as well as not having "real feelings" at all)?

Well, calling her a magical animal is no insult, because that is what she is And about brushing her aside - well, that is more or less what Yuuichi did, is it not? Sure, he remembers her and her name gets mentioned here and there, but did he actually seem depressed ? Even if he was, that happened offscreen, and life seemed to go on as always... while in the case of Shiori, he is beyond being simply depressed.
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Old 2007-02-04, 13:40   Link #119
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I think it was the "just a magical animal" that made it sound harsh.

Because of Makoto's essential nature, her soul's return to the hillside isn't really seen as "death" to some. When Shiori (or anyone) dies, her memories cease to be (though their soul continues to the next cycle). The transience of memory makes it very precious in buddhist and shinto thinking. Its one reason *remembering* and honoring ancestors and the deceased is important.
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Old 2007-02-04, 18:21   Link #120
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Well, calling her a magical animal is no insult, because that is what she is And about brushing her aside - well, that is more or less what Yuuichi did, is it not? Sure, he remembers her and her name gets mentioned here and there, but did he actually seem depressed ? Even if he was, that happened offscreen, and life seemed to go on as always... while in the case of Shiori, he is beyond being simply depressed.
no actually i think that the makoto incident had a hand in making yuuichi that depressed ~ he would be thinking that himself is causing all the girls to be hurt in someway ~ first its makoto disappearing, next its mai stabbing and now shiori vanishing...any man would feel down after all those mind traumas...im surprised yuuichi hasnt turned emo himself
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